Pope Benedict XVI 'to resign'

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pnewton said:
A little proud of your opinion? I will say that there is no grave crisis, at least nothing severe compared at other times. I am not in denial. Quite the opposite. I don’t swallow every juicy piece of meat the media feeds its sheep.

Your understanding of the papacy is not Catholic, btw. If you wish to argue Catholic doctrine on a Catholic forum, you should go to the appropriate area designated for such discussion.
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I’m sorry but I thought that it was obvious that the Catholic Church is in a deep spiritual crisis. At least this has been the general consensus outside the catholic church itself. First we have new schisms with groups such as SSPX and also a division within the catholic church itself and it all seem to stem from one side being willing to embrace modernism and post-modernism and evolve with it and the other side wanting to evolve into more severe conservative style in the line of tradition and history. I one spoke to a evagelical who was also leaving his church in pursuit of the traditional christianity and he said the reason that he chose eastern otrthodoxy before roman catholicism was not objections to the papacy but the fact that the catholic church is in serious internal trouble. I heard this from others too, but it is very possible that its but a perception from an outside perspective among christians seeking to convert to the faith of Jesus the Christ and his Apostles.
The second factor forming my conviction there is indeed a crisis, or at least significant turmoil is the child molestation scandals and from this particular crime stems much of the outside worlds hatred for and medias never ending attacks and slanders of the catholic church. The way it has been handled, while maybe not all wrong in every case does not quench the populus and medias “thirst for blood”. There is also “vatileaks” originating from the inner circle around the pope himself.

Remember that I am still a Lutheran (until my studies are completed) and in my investigations in catholicism the papacy have been subordinated to Maryology, penance, the sacraments, the mysteries, prayers and the life of the saints. I have at the same time examined the orthodox church which is inevitable when studying the history of the church. Anyway , the point is that as I have understood it the papacy has evolved in a natural progress to its current form. In the very beginning things looked alot different.
But these are of course only my personal insignificant reflections
 
Shamati said:
I’m sorry but I thought that it was obvious that the Catholic Church is in a deep spiritual crisis. At least this has been the general consensus outside the catholic church itself. First we have new schisms with groups such as SSPX and also a division within the catholic church itself and it all seem to stem from one side being willing to embrace modernism and post-modernism and evolve with it and the other side wanting to evolve into more severe conservative style in the line of tradition and history. I one spoke to a evagelical who was also leaving his church in pursuit of the traditional christianity and he said the reason that he chose eastern otrthodoxy before roman catholicism was not objections to the papacy but the fact that the catholic church is in serious internal trouble. I heard this from others too, but it is very possible that its but a perception from an outside perspective among christians seeking to convert to the faith of Jesus the Christ and his Apostles.
The second factor forming my conviction there is indeed a crisis, or at least significant turmoil is the child molestation scandals and from this particular crime stems much of the outside worlds hatred for and medias never ending attacks and slanders of the catholic church. The way it has been handled, while maybe not all wrong in every case does not quench the populus and medias “thirst for blood”. There is also “vatileaks” originating from the inner circle around the pope himself.

Remember that I am still a Lutheran (until my studies are completed) and in my investigations in catholicism the papacy have been subordinated to Maryology, penance, the sacraments, the mysteries, prayers and the life of the saints. I have at the same time examined the orthodox church which is inevitable when studying the history of the church. Anyway , the point is that as I have understood it the papacy has evolved in a natural progress to its current form. In the very beginning things looked alot different.
But these are of course only my personal insignificant reflections
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You are being humble now, I think there is a lot to reflect on on what you wrote. In looking at any religion, all I would want is one to be fair.
 
Shamati said:
I’m sorry but I thought that it was obvious that the Catholic Church is in a deep spiritual crisis.
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Of all the things you mentioned, the only one I consider serious is modernism. The SSPX is too small. It is like saying that America is in danger of communism because there is an American Communist Party. The attacks from the media center around events one to two generations in the past. The blood lust in the media is a sign the we are doing well. Satan does not attack something he already has in his back pocket.

Now modernism is the great challenge today. I guess by some definitions it might be a crisis. But I know the Catholic Church seems to be holding against it very well. The doctrine has not changed, though obviously many of the faithful are attracted to the world. If that is a crisis, then it is one that started in the Garden of Eden.
 
pnewton said:
Of all the things you mentioned, the only one I consider serious is modernism. The SSPX is too small. It is like saying that America is in danger of communism because there is an American Communist Party. The attacks from the media center around events one to two generations in the past. The blood lust in the media is a sign the we are doing well. Satan does not attack something he already has in his back pocket.

Now modernism is the great challenge today. I guess by some definitions it might be a crisis. But I know the Catholic Church seems to be holding against it very well. The doctrine has not changed, though obviously many of the faithful are attracted to the world. If that is a crisis, then it is one that started in the Garden of Eden.
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I think the church is still being used by the State as it was throughout it’s established formation. The only difference is that it’s now being used as a scapegoat but the fact that the State’s tool; the media see the bride of Christ as a threat makes me content because aside from being life itself, the church serves as a moral guide
 
pnewton said:
Of all the things you mentioned, the only one I consider serious is modernism. The SSPX is too small. It is like saying that America is in danger of communism because there is an American Communist Party. The attacks from the media center around events one to two generations in the past. The blood lust in the media is a sign the we are doing well. Satan does not attack something he already has in his back pocket.

Now modernism is the great challenge today. I guess by some definitions it might be a crisis. But I know the Catholic Church seems to be holding against it very well. The doctrine has not changed, though obviously many of the faithful are attracted to the world. If that is a crisis, then it is one that started in the Garden of Eden.
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Of course the SSPX wont be a serious threat to the catholic church itself, i just pointed out the fact that you now have new divisions in the church instead of less, which to me is an indication something is wrong.
Modernism is the source of it but I dont see how the phedophilia scandals can not be a crisis? Father Barrom from word of fire said that it has affected every facet of his work as a catholic priest and made it alot harder to do it. Most of all I think it has seriously damaged the authority of the church. He also said its one of the reasons he made the catholicism series since he wanted to show that there are good fruits of the church.
All abrahamic faiths of today have trouble with its people yielding to the temptations of modernism but none more than christianity. The people who have historically been christian seems to be the ones who are most easily sucked into the false worlview of modernism and cultural relativity. Apart from the fact of modernism as such being a product of the west I believe this is due to a significant loss of faith which is a result of less and less people having truly direct spiritual experiences of God.
In the catholic church of where i live a letter by the Bishop of Sweden was read to the congregation where he pointed out how centered the western culture is on the individual “me” and how everyones worldview seem to revolved around it. One needs to surrender this false self into the hands of God like Jesus did for the best of the “we” and to have a mystical experience and mysticism always leads to evangelisation he continued. This i believe is the core of the problem of todays western world. The radical individualism has simply went to far.

It is refreshing to me that Vladimir Putin of Russia has said that he considers post modernism the equivalentnof satanism; a worship of the flesh and he has made it his mission to renew or reaffirm the spiritual collective conscioussness of Russia and the pride of their history and christian values. In political reality it has resulted in for example the government making it illegal to promote a homosexual lifestyle to the youth, thereby blocking homosexual/transgender lobbyists. This is probably the main reason he is so very demonized by the western media as an totalitarian dictator. I can only hope a leader with such interests for his people will energe in the west
 
Shamati said:
how the phedophilia scandals can not be a crisis? Father Barrom from word of fire said that it has affected every facet of his work as a catholic priest and made it alot harder to do it. Most of all I think it has seriously damaged the authority of the church. He also said its one of the reasons he made the catholicism series since he wanted to show that there are good fruits of the church.
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Something that we as Catholics can do as our own little contribution to alleviating this crisis is to share the truth about it—the truth about just how extensive it really is. The John Jay College study of the crisis is probably the most rigorous, systematic study that has ever been done on it. A summary of its findings can be found here:

americancatholic.org/news/clergysexabuse/johnjaycns.asp
 
Shamati said:
It is refreshing to me that Vladimir Putin of Russia has said that he considers post modernism the equivalentnof satanism; a worship of the flesh and he has made it his mission to renew or reaffirm the spiritual collective conscioussness of Russia and the pride of their history and christian values. In political reality it has resulted in for example the government making it illegal to promote a homosexual lifestyle to the youth, thereby blocking homosexual/transgender lobbyists. This is probably the main reason he is so very demonized by the western media as an totalitarian dictator. I can only hope a leader with such interests for his people will energe in the west
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This is quite interesting to me and I would be grateful if you could provide links or name any publications that mention this. Are you, by chance, referring to something coming out of the ecumenical movement centered in Kazakhstan?
 
**
The Reluctant Pope**
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…historians decades from now will take his pontificate seriously. It stands as an important step toward the restoration of order and orthodoxy within the Church after many years of scandal and foolishness. While plenty of dysfunction is still on display, Benedict did what he could to curb it. Contrary to the media’s spinning, he inherited these crises; he didn’t create them.
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Indeed, the moments in his pontificate that the media has worked hardest to try and trivialize and discredit will hold up the best: his battles with the “dictatorship of relativism,” his promotion of wider use of the traditional Latin Mass, his reinstitution of the ban on the ordination of homosexuals to the priesthood, his historic overture to disaffected Anglicans, his voluminous stream of speeches and writings that aimed at repairing the catechetical collapse within the Church; his insistence on the “non-negotiable” character of the natural moral law in shaping politics and culture.
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spectator.org/archives/2013/02/12/the-reluctant-pope
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The Ukrainian prophet in 2010 has made a divination about Pope Benedict XVI (swarga.com.ua/en/predictions/57-1):🙂

The purity has been frozen a long ago.
It is beautiful and abundant.
So that this abundance be preserved,
The bride’s head will be cut.
(V.Maitreya)

The bride - the church,
Will be cut - by himself,
The head - Pope Benedict XVI abdicates
 
One thing we will start seeing more prominently would be people calling for the pope to step down whenever something goes wrong within the Church.
 
I applaud the Pope for his choice. I find the timing interesting. I would have thought he would either have resigned before the beginning of lent or waited until after Easter. As it is we may have a conclave going on in the middle of Holy Week.
 
kelvinf said:
One thing we will start seeing more prominently would be people calling for the pope to step down whenever something goes wrong within the Church.
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Eh, it’s nothing the future popes can’t handle. 🙂 People were calling for John Paul II’s resignation for years because of his failing health. Some quarters were calling for Benedict XVI’s resignation because of some perceived failure on his part with regards to the sex abuse scandal.

I think it’s a knee jerk response for most people today. Someone does something we don’t like? We demand they must resign at once! :rolleyes:
 
Yerusalyim said:
I applaud the Pope for his choice. I find the timing interesting. I would have thought he would either have resigned before the beginning of lent or waited until after Easter. As it is we may have a conclave going on in the middle of Holy Week.
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i thought the timing was strange also unless there was some unforeseen urgency.
however, i did read that they believe the conclave will now be able to begin earlier than planned and possibly shortle after Pope Benedict’s last day as Pope. so we should have a new Pope before the end of Lent.
 
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