Pope BenedictXV1 a LIBERAL

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Sirach14

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I can hear all you conservatives screaming “God forbid, no way.” Well sit tight, because the auther of this article states that our new Pope will become a liberal “in a classical vaiety”, embracing “hope in faith and freedom.”
But doesent Pope Benedict XV1 know this already?

detnews.com/2005/editorial/0504/30/D08-166918.htm
 
thanks for what?

I think the author and the like WILL be a spy for bin Laden and hanged drawn and quartered
 
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abcdefg:
thanks for what?

I think the author and the like WILL be a spy for bin Laden and hanged drawn and quartered
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Pray for this priest. Benedict XVI is no liberal.
 
Fr. Sirico is just creating confusion by using terms differently from common usage. Politically, what we call liberals today are really socialists - they believe in a vigorously “interventionist” (I would say intrusive) state with a heavy emphasis on “rights” as defined by elitist courts and a minimum of power by the voters. What we now call conservatives are really the liberals of the past - they believe in a minimal state and are populist when it comes to the collective decisions that have to be made. Both John Paul II and Benedict XVI are complex and hard to define. They both favour conservative (but traditionally liberal) positions in politics and economics. But in church matters they are seen as conservatives in that they believe in maintaining what the church has always believed. Nevertheless, both were movers and shakers during Vatican II and seen as prime evildoers by arch-traditionalists like the Lebrebvrists.
 
Unfortunately, the Detroit News is my local paper. I recall reading the occasional contributions of Father Sirico. Wishing to show no disrespect, I must say that nothing he has written ever made any impression on me.

As for this article, I think the body text did little to support such a sensationalist title. I really do not know what Father Sirico was trying to say. Perhaps it was over my head.
 
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Convert68:
what we call liberals today

What we now call conservatives
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You are using political terms to describe the Popes who are apolitical.
They both favour conservative (but traditionally liberal) positions in politics
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Oh? For whom did they vote in the last elections they were eligible to vote in? Polity and the Church are two different things.
But in church matters they are seen as conservatives in that they believe in maintaining what the church has always believed.
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I have new words for you to learn - “orthodox” and “heterodox.” In Church matters, the Popes are always orthodox, not liberal or conservative. And, those who do not follow what the Church has always believed are heterodox, not liberal or conservative.
 
Liberal is the wrong word.

The Pope is a modernist - he was at Vatican II and he still is.

The “smackdowners” are going to be very disapointed.

He keeps going on about dialogue, unity and ecumenism, so don’t expect anything that will upset the protestants and schismatics - how can he condemn liturgical abuse and at the same time be reaching out to the arch-abusers?

Because of this, expect Catholic indifferentism to carry on. No wonder people are walking away when they think it doesn’t really matter what you believe.

We’ve had 40 years of “dialogue”, for all the good its done.

For every step we take towards them, they take two away from us.
 
Jesus was also considered to be a liberal by the Pharisees. He broke with traditional practices whenever they got in the way of the Gospel.

By our Baptism, Catholics are called to be men and women of the Gospel who are Christian disciples by conviction rather than Church members by convention. As the old song goes, “It ain’t what you do, but it’s the way that you do it.” We are called to let go of cafeteria, casual and cultural Catholicism by accepting the liberating truth of the Word of God and living by grace through faith in the Son of God. This requires that we consciously accept the Gospel as the measure of our ENTIRE lives, rather than attempting to measure the Gospel by our experience.

It’s not enough to know who Jesus is; we MUST know Jesus. We must surrender our private judgments in ALL MATTERS of faith and morals to the sacred teaching authority of the Church’s Magisterium if we are to receive the whole Gospel.
 
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Richardols:
You are using political terms to describe the Popes who are apolitical.
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But church teachings have profound political effects.

Which is why Barry Lynn and AUSCS filed complaints with the IRS against several Catholic dioceses before the last election. It is why Archbishops Chaput and Burke have been castigated in the much of the media. It is why this website was created: theocracywatch.org.

The Catholic and many (but not all) Protestant churches can be considered conservative in this respect: They are objective, principled and deductive. Modern liberalism is subjective, inductive and experiental–pretty much what Pope Benedict XVI referred to when he spoke of a “dictatorship of relativism.”
 
In a raw political sense, “liberal in a classical sense” literally means that Benedict is what in modern times we would call a conservative. I read the article in question and it was very clear to me that this priest was using a semantic play on the traditional and classical meaning of the word "liberal."
 
David Oatney said:
In a raw political sense, “liberal in a classical sense” literally means that Benedict is what in modern times we would call a conservative. I read the article in question and it was very clear to me that this priest was using a semantic play on the traditional and classical meaning of the word "liberal."
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There’s also a difference in the European usage versus American usage of the world “liberal”. Fr. Sirico was using it in the classical sense, which the Europeans still use for the most part. I do, however, agree that the article was pretty sketchy–perhaps there was a word limit or overzealous editors.

For the poster who doesn’t appreciate Fr. Sirico: go to the website of his institute, www.acton.org. It’s full of articles applying Catholic social teaching and the Catholic understanding of human nature to modern economics. Those of you with statist tendencies probably won’t agree with most of the philosophy there, but check it out anyway.
 
Pope Benedict XVI a liberal?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Read on …

(Taken in part from Catholic News Service)

Here is a partial list of the principal public documents and decisions issued by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith from 1981 to 2005 when Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger was prefect of the office.

– March 12, 1983: Notification reaffirming the excommunication of traditionalist Archbishop Pierre Martin Ngo Dinh Thuc, formerly of Hue, Vietnam, and his accomplices for the illicit ordination of priests and bishops.

– Oct. 4, 1983: Notification to Archbishop Raymond G. Hunthausen of Seattle that an apostolic visitation of his archdiocese would be conducted, focused primarily on liturgy, the education of seminarians, clergy formation, the marriage tribunal and ministry to homosexuals.

– Nov. 26, 1983: “Declaration on Masonic Associations,” saying those who knowingly embrace the principles or attend the rituals are involved in serious sin and may not receive Communion.

– Aug. 6, 1984: “Instruction on Certain Aspects of the ‘Theology of Liberation,’” criticized theologians who borrow “uncritically” from Marxist ideology, reducing salvation to the liberation of the poor from worldly oppressors.

– March 11, 1985: Notification on the book “Church: Charism and Power” by Brazilian Franciscan Father Leonardo Boff, who argued that the church’s current hierarchical structure was not that intended by Christ and that authority can spring from the community of the faithful. The notification said the book was “dangerous” and asked Father Boff to refrain from publishing or speaking publicly for one year.

– March 22, 1986: “Instruction on Christian Freedom and Liberation,” a second document on liberation theology, insisting it have as its goal the liberation of people from sin, not simply from sinful social structures.

– July 25, 1986: Letter regarding the suspension of U.S. Father Charles E. Curran from teaching Catholic theology because of his dissenting views on several issues in sexual ethics.

– Sept. 15, 1986: Notification on the book “The Church With a Human Face: A New and Expanded Theology of Ministry” by Dominican Father Edward Schillebeeckx, saying the book was “in disagreement with the teaching of the church,” particularly regarding ordination and the possibility of lay people presiding at the Eucharist.

– Oct. 1, 1986: “Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons.” The letter called for … clarity that homosexual activity is immoral.

– Feb. 22, 1987: “Instruction on Respect for Human Life in Its Origin and on the Dignity of Procreation,” reaffirming Church teaching that an embryo is human from the moment of conception and that conception is moral only in the context of sexual intercourse within marriage.

– June 29, 1988: Telegram warning traditionalist French Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre he would be in schism if he ordained bishops without papal consent. The archbishop went ahead with the ordinations and died in schism.

– Feb. 16, 1989: Note regarding the moral rule of “Humanae Vitae”, saying the church is firm in teaching that contraception is an “intrinsically disordered act” that is prohibited without exception.

– Oct. 15, 1989: “Letter on Certain Aspects of Christian Meditation,” cautioning Catholics about using Buddhist, Hindu and other meditation techniques that place the focus of prayer on the self rather than on God.

– May 24, 1990: “Instruction on the Ecclesial Vocation of the Theologian,” calling on theologians who disagree with church teaching not to use the mass media to publicize their views or try to pressure for change in the church.

– Jan. 31, 1992: Note on the book “The Sexual Creators, an Ethical Proposal for Concerned Christians” by Canadian Oblate Father Andre Guindon. The Vatican said the book presented questionable views on premarital sex, homosexual relationships and contraception, because Father Guindon seemed to reduce moral goodness to subjective human intentions.

more …
 
continued …

– May 28, 1992: “Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on Some Aspects of the Church Understood as Communion,” emphasizing … recognition of the authority of the pope.

– Sept. 14, 1994: “Letter to Bishops Regarding the Reception of Holy Communion by Divorced and Remarried Members of the Faithful,” reaffirming that divorced and civilly remarried Catholics may not receive Communion.

– Oct. 28, 1995: Response to questions about the apostolic letter, “Ordinatio Sacerdotalis,” saying the church’s teaching that women cannot be ordained priests belongs “to the deposit of faith” and has been taught “infallibly” by Pope John Paul.

– Jan. 2, 1997: Notification on the book “Mary and Human Liberation” by Sri Lankan Oblate Father Tissa Balasuriya, saying the book contained heretical statements regarding Mary, original sin, Christ’s redemptive role and papal infallibility. The Oblate was excommunicated, but reconciled with the church a year later.

– May 30, 1997: Revised “Regulations for Doctrinal Examination” of theologians and their work.

– June 24, 1998: Posthumous notification concerning the writings of Indian Jesuit Father Anthony De Mello, saying some of the priest’s views “are incompatible with the Catholic faith and can cause grave harm.” It particularly cited those views presenting God as an impersonal cosmic reality, organized religion as an obstacle to self-awareness and Jesus as one master among many.

– Oct. 31, 1998: “Considerations on ‘The Primacy of the Successor of Peter in the Mystery of the Church,’” saying that, “the full communion desired by Christ … requires the common recognition of a universal ecclesial ministry,” and the Catholic faith holds that ministry which belongs to the pope.

– May 31, 1999: Notification regarding School Sister of Notre Dame Jeannine Gramick and Salvatorian Father Robert Nugent, barring the U.S. team from further pastoral ministry to homosexuals, saying they advanced “doctrinally unacceptable” positions “regarding the intrinsic evil of homosexual acts and the objective disorder of the homosexual inclination.”

– June 26, 2000: Publication of a 43-page booklet containing the complete “Message of Fatima,” including the so-called “third secret” given to three Portuguese children in 1917.

– Aug. 6, 2000: “Dominus Iesus,” a declaration on the “exclusive, universal and absolute” value of Jesus Christ and his church for salvation.

– Sept. 14, 2000: “Instruction on Prayers for Healing,” encouraging local bishops to be vigilant that the services do not become occasions for hysteria or focus more on the so-called gift of healing possessed by certain individuals than on God.

– Jan. 24, 2001: Notification on the book “Toward a Christian Theology of Religious Pluralism” by Belgian Jesuit Father Jacques Dupuis, warning that although Father Dupuis’ intentions were good his 1997 book contained ambiguous statements and insufficient explanations that could lead readers to “erroneous or harmful conclusions” about Christ’s role as the unique and universal savior.

– Feb. 22, 2001: Notification regarding certain writings of Redemptorist Father Marciano Vidal, a Spanish moral theologian. At the congregation’s request, the priest agreed to revise several of his books to emphasize the church’s official position on contraception, homosexuality, masturbation, abortion and other issues.

– Aug. 5, 2002: Publication of the declaration of the excommunication of seven Catholic women from various countries who had attempted to be ordained Catholic priests. The congregation had sent them a warning July 10 asking them to indicate their “repentance for the most serious offense they had committed.” The ordaining bishop … had already been excommunicated.

– Jan. 16, 2003: Doctrinal note on the participation of Catholics in political life saying that Catholics cannot claim the freedom that allows them to support abortion, euthanasia or other attacks on human life.

– Feb. 7-14, 2003: Revised norms issued for dealing with “serious offenses” against the sacraments.

– July 31, 2003: “Considerations Regarding Proposals to Give Legal Recognition to Unions Between Homosexual Persons,” saying legal recognition of gay unions is contrary to human nature and ultimately harmful to society.

– Dec. 13, 2004: Notification regarding the book “Jesus Symbol of God” by U.S. Jesuit Father Roger Haight, which said the book contained “serious doctrinal errors against the Catholic and divine faith of the church,” particularly regarding the divinity of Jesus and the universality of salvation in him. The Jesuit was forbidden to teach as a Catholic theologian.

– Feb. 11, 2005: Statement reaffirming church teaching that only priests can administer the anointing of the sick and saying the doctrine must be “definitively” accepted by Catholics.

**Yeah right … he’s a liberal. **

Gimmme a break!
 
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StJeanneDArc:
There’s also a difference in the European usage versus American usage of the world “liberal”. Fr. Sirico was using it in the classical sense, which the Europeans still use for the most part. I do, however, agree that the article was pretty sketchy–perhaps there was a word limit or overzealous editors.

For the poster who doesn’t appreciate Fr. Sirico: go to the website of his institute, www.acton.org. It’s full of articles applying Catholic social teaching and the Catholic understanding of human nature to modern economics. Those of you with statist tendencies probably won’t agree with most of the philosophy there, but check it out anyway.
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**St. Jeanne;
You are right, of course, there is generally a difference in the European and American meanings of the world “liberal.” In the classical sense, it could be argued that a whole lot of the people in these forums are liberals…

However, even the use of the European term is changing. For example, the “Liberal Democratic Party” in England has actually become a left-wing party (although the old Liberal Party of Lloyd George was not). The Liberal Party of Canada, originally fashioned after the old European model of liberalism, has now become a haven for the Left in that country.

All that said, it is clear that Father Sirico meant “liberal” in the classical sense. Classical liberalism in some form or other is something that very few people here at CA would fail to identify with. Identifying Benedict XVI as a classical liberal would put him in the same socio-political mold of the old Christian Social Union of Bavaria…not surprising at all, considering the things we all know to be true about Benedict.
**
 
Q: Fireman: smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/3/3_12_25v.gif If I burn my Anthony De Mello books will you be standing by to put out the fire?
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A: Yes & No ally.

Now what you do with YOUR books is YOUR OWN business. But if you attempt to burn them outside in the city where I work as a firefighter, then yes - I would be obligated to put that fire out.

As my city has had a “no-open burning” ordinance in effect for quite some time now … 😉
I always thought they were poetic but if my beautiful smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_2_103.gifPapa says they are in error I will humbly give them up.
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AMEN.🙂
 
“Burning banned books” is just an expression but in all seriousness…there must be a proper way of disposing of material that should not be read by others. About 5 years ago before I discovered EWTN and became orthodox I was attending a “Catholic” church that sponsored enneagram classesl I attended a few of the classes and became fascinated with what I thought was just innocent fun. So I bought about 6 enneagram books. After hearing Johnette and Father Mitch talk about the dangers of New Age I decided I didn’t want the books in my home any more. I also did not want to donate them to Good Will or the library because they would lead someone else astray. Also, our town does not allow open burning. So what I did was emmerged them in water and smothered them with yucky garbage before throwing them into the garbage can.
 
ally
“Burning banned books” is just an expression but in all seriousness…
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LOL When you talk to a professional firefighter with 11 years of service about “burning” something … you’re going to get a serious answer!

That aside, the method of “disposal” that you had used for those “books” was quite appropriate.:clapping:

But next time (and if you live near a gym) you could get one of those big guys with the 20" biceps to shred them apart for you!

Just a suggestion … 🙂
 
Apparantly, before elected Pope, Benedict XVI administered communion to well known (to him!) protestants at John Pauls funeral.

Is this true?

The “smackdowners” are in for a big surprise!

The Pope has also said he is looking forward to reading the latest ARCIC document about the role of Mary.

So am I - I can’t wait to see the latest state of Catholic concessionism.
 
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