Pope Bluntly Faults Church's Focus on Gays and Abortion

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AdvanceAlways said:
I understand your point of view, but I truly believe you are setting up a false dichotomy. At least speaking for myself, I am not just focusing on abortion. I absolutely know there are more than 2 issues. What I don’t appreciate is being told by the Pope that I am promoting small minded doctrines.
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Yes, I see what you mean, but he was not speaking directly to you. There are many people out there fighting against abortion that believe that those who have chosen abortion will never be saved. I would guess by your willingness to continue in this discussion that you are not one of them. I think the small minded doctrine he spoke about is not that people focus on abortion but they are not open minded enough to God love and forgiveness and none of really know what He will decide to do with any sinner in the end.
 
Pope Francis is absolutely right. The Church needs to move Beyond Gays and Abortion…To People
 
manualman said:
Do I understand you correctly that you perceive people wanting others to leave the church so that it is smaller and more ‘exclusive?’ Who do you suppose they want to exclude?

In my experience, the only ones being excluded are those who wish to declare evil to be good, not those who are sorrowful for the wrongs they know they have committed.
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DOES POPE AIM TO BRING CHURCH BACK BY MAKING IT SMALLER, PURER, MORE DEVOUT?

There was a lot of talk of this downsizing when Pope Benedict came into office
 
This interview is striking in that it calls to mind how tightly connected the American Catholics are with the Republican party. His comments parallel the comments of RNC Chair Reince Priebus, who suggested a “rebranding” effort-- to stop talking about culture war issues that were damaging the party. Of course the rebranding effort wasn’t very successful for the Republicans. I wonder if this is part of a “rebranding” effort in the Church-- whether the message is “We can still believe in culture war issues as long as we don’t say it out loud”?
 
shawnbm said:
Pope Francis seems to want to see outreach, forgiveness, mercy, with a re-approachment to the Sacraments. Get them back in and THEN work on teaching them the error of their beliefs, not in a confrontational way (which is the spirit of a lot of talk radio, blogs and in print media), but with patience, kindness and mercy. Did not the prophet Micah say it so well in Mic. 6:7-8 ? Peace to all, and REJOICE in the LORD for He is goodness and love at all times to all of His creatures. 🙂
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As a mother who has a few children who have strayed, I am constantly wondering what to say or do to get my (adult) children back to church. Sometimes all I can do is pray. And I pray, too, that God will send people into their lives who will influence them for the better and guide in ways that I am not able too. For too much coming from me sounds like I am nagging and has a repelling effect. And I honestly try not to nag but I just don’t know what to say to them. It is good to hear the Holy Father reaching out to get them back in the door.
 
CradleJourney said:
But that is what catechesis is for - which I agree is in need of serious work for most parishes.

I put forth that if they never try to come to God because they feel the Church has already condemned them - then there is no victory either.
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Amen, and I believe the Church has turned the corner here. We didn’t lose the war, but we have lost a couple of decades of lapsed Catholic’s.

I spoke to single parents raised Catholic, who are in a Protestant Church now. They are ashamed to come back and feel hurt. Its not that they don’t want to or won’t come back. They feel ostracized. and in many case’s by their “own behavior” not always what others have said, or how they were made to feel. Still they should be welcome and supported. I’ve gone to their congregation, just so they would come with me.
 
Baloo said:
While I’m in no way a supporter of Gay Marriage or Abortion, I do believe Pope Francis has a point. We are the Catholic church, here for the salvation of all mankind. We can’t ostracize people, they are human beings as well. Preaching against gay marriage and abortion until we’re blue in the face won’t lead others to the Catholic church, living a Catholic lifestyle and being an example for others however will, and with that brings an end to things like abortion and gay marriage.
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The whole interview is interesting. Because he mention that it will kill the church in some way “Will be left alone”. I have no time to look for the original text. He want to prevent US to loose his faith.

When I was talking about heresy in the US church, Pope Francis point at one of them, one of the biggest mistake.

Yes the US church is on the wrong path, thank to EWTN propaganda.
I am not pro-choice, but focusing just on that is a mistake. That is what the pope is talking about. And it’s a American journalist he talk to, so the pope talk to the Americans Catholics.

So wake up, stop rejecting and condemn those persons, like the pope say.
 
GaryTaylor said:
Amen, and I believe the Church has turned the corner here. We didn’t lose the war, but we have lost a couple of decades of lapsed Catholic’s.

I spoke to single parents raised Catholic, who are in a Protestant Church now. They are ashamed to come back and feel hurt. Its not that they don’t want to or won’t come back. They feel ostracized. and in many case’s by their “own behavior” not always what others have said, or how they were made to feel. Still they should be welcome and supported. I’ve gone to their congregation, just so they would come with me.
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l think the Church’s marriage laws are rather ridiculous, frankly. No one has mentioned them, but the whole annulment process sounds really arbitrary to me. I’m sure it drives many good people away.
 
GaryTaylor said:
No-one said you shouldn’t judge peoples “actions”, but you have no clue to their “intentions”?
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I think perhaps we’re talking about two different things. When people right here on this thread say directly what they think of others, I absolutely do have a clue as to their intentions.
 
johnlal said:
And it’s okay for liberals to have a Pope every great once in a while. 👍
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I agree! 🙂

Pope Francis is a JESUIT… and the current Catholic church is in for a rude awakening. The current pope has built his life on simplicity and decades of service to the poorest, which gives him an understanding of human nature and the compassion (much to the dismay of the silk-robed, Gucci-shoe-wearing cardinals at the Vatican).

And they have been busy trying to dilute his message-- “Okay, we know what he said, but this is what he really meant.”-- but Pope Francis is still getting through. For once, some non-judgmental plain sense in the Catholic church is getting through.
 
Country_Gal said:
What I saw, in my former parish, was the ultra-conservative people forming their own exclusive prayer groups, shunning others, refusing to shake hands during sign of peace, and getting angry about a lot of things. CCD done at home, no mixing with the common parish kids. No welcoming smiles allowed!

To me, that is a big fat turn off.
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Could some of that be just in your head? ;). After getting the life almost squeezed out of my hand twice this week, I am seriously thinking about not shaking hands any more at the sign of peace. There are a few people who don’t get that squeezing some people’s hand can be excruciatingly painful. As far as the people in the prayer group- did you ever think that they may feel that you are shunning them? 🙂 All the things you have mentioned are just human emotions and personalities and actions that everyone has to live with and learn to be understanding and patient with.
 
zab said:
As a mother who has a few children who have strayed, I am constantly wondering what to say or do to get my (adult) children back to church. Sometimes all I can do is pray. And I pray, too, that God will send people into their lives who will influence them for the better and guide in ways that I am not able too. For too much coming from me sounds like I am nagging and has a repelling effect. And I honestly try not to nag but I just don’t know what to say to them. It is good to hear the Holy Father reaching out to get them back in the door.
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That’s right, much truth in your post. And sometimes its only a sentence that another person may say. A few moments of their time. People know when someone is being genuine with them, and they never forget it, and through those eyes others too will see.
 
Country_Gal said:
l think the Church’s marriage laws are rather ridiculous, frankly. No one has mentioned them, but the whole annulment process sounds really arbitrary to me. I’m sure it drives many good people away.
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I work in that process. Please enlighten me about ridiculous laws and what “sounds” arbitrary to you. If you are sure it drives many people away, give me a number. Perhaps start another thread.

Dan
 
LiberalPrincess said:
I agree! 🙂

Pope Francis is a JESUIT… and the current Catholic church is in for a rude awakening. The current pope has built his life on simplicity and decades of service to the poorest, which gives him an understanding of human nature and the compassion (much to the dismay of the silk-robed, Gucci-shoe-wearing cardinals at the Vatican).

And they have been busy trying to dilute his message-- “Okay, we know what he said, but this is what he really meant.”-- but Pope Francis is still getting through. For once, some non-judgmental plain sense in the Catholic church is getting through.
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Do you accept all doctrines and dogmas of the Catholic Church? Do you believe in the Catechism of the Catholic Church?
 
The_Bucket said:
I don’t think you are overly optimistic. I think Francis is a very intelligent person who is better connected to people “on the ground” and knows what it takes to at least plant the seed. I won’t vacillate. I’ll sin to be sure, but attempts to woo “the other side” are not going to shake me. We are all beloved sons and daughters of Christ. I want the prodigal sons and daughters to return home to their Father Christ and their Mother Church. I will not be the older son and resent the fact that my father is focusing on the runaways while I am toiling in the fields. For I have plenty of my own faults and there have been plenty of times where I have been the prodigal son and there will be more. I only pray that my Father will await my return as He awaits everyone else’s as well.
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That’s a great way to look at it.
 
Country_Gal said:
DOES POPE AIM TO BRING CHURCH BACK BY MAKING IT SMALLER, PURER, MORE DEVOUT?

There was a lot of talk of this downsizing when Pope Benedict came into office
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See, that’s not “excluding” anybody. That’s simply asking people to be honest rather than inventing their own religious principles from whole cloth, but then claiming to be catholic even though they innately disrespect the actual teachings of the catholic church. A woman who has had an abortion is completely welcome to come to the catholic church with a repentant heart and be healed along with the rest of us. A man whose wife left him because he was an abuser, is welcome to come and be relieved of the guilt of his crimes and learn to be healed inside. Gay people devastated by the promiscuity and abandonment rampant to the gay lifestyle are completely welcome to come in and cry on a priest’s shoulders to be comforted.

But we can’t let those people come in and tell us that their suffering is unjust because they’ve done nothing wrong! Charity involves both compassion and truth. It is a spiritual work of mercy to admonish the sinner, it just can’t be done in a self-righteous manner. That’s easy to say, hard to do.

As for marriage, how do you suggest that we better deal with Jesus’ teachings on the matter (once God joins two people, they cannot be un-joined)? The church already recognizes that not everybody who shows up in a tux and white dress has necessary been “joined by God” so there is a process by which such situations can be evaluated. Surely you don’t suggest that the church simply tell people “figure it out on your own and we’ll take your word for it.” Look around, people aren’t figuring it out on their own. I’ll certainly grant that the marriage tribunal process ain’t perfect. But it’s better than anybody else is doing in the Christian world.
 
AdvanceAlways said:
Do you accept all doctrines and dogmas of the Catholic Church? Do you believe in the Catechism of the Catholic Church?
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I consider myself a social justice Catholic. One who strongly believes that love and how you treat others is far more important than religious doctrine and dogma.
 
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