Pope Bluntly Faults Church's Focus on Gays and Abortion

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I work in that process. Please enlighten me about ridiculous laws and what “sounds” arbitrary to you. If you are sure it drives many people away, give me a number. Perhaps start another thread.

Dan
I’m not personally affected by it but have spoken to several people who are.

In my opinion it’s ridiculous to declare a 10 or 20 year marriage with kids as ‘invalid’ as a way around the no divorce laws. Either allow divorce and cut the red tape, or stick to your guns.But pretending that marriages never happened is ridiculous in my opinion. No, I’m not going to start a new thread on it.
 
l think the Church’s marriage laws are rather ridiculous, frankly. No one has mentioned them, but the whole annulment process sounds really arbitrary to me. I’m sure it drives many good people away.
I know, they are better than back in the 60’s and 70’s. Abuse wasn’t acknowledged back then, and not all women were keen to remain in abusive relationships. So they become hurt in a relationship and hurt by the Church.
 
I love this! If I weren’t Catholic, I would come away from news about our bishops in the US thinking that being Catholic is nothing more than being against abortion, same-sex marriage, and contraceptives as part of health insurance.
The Pope is right.
I am really disappointed with Pope Francis. I hope I am proven wrong but it does not look good.

Let me note first that Francis is making a U-turn from Benedict in this respect. We were told by Benedict that the Church needed to focus on reviatlizing the core believers even if that meant a smaller church. Francis is telling us we need to reach out to the marginal believers and stop being so narrow-minded. What circumstances changed between these two? Did Francis decide that Benedict’s strategy had been a failure? Was Europe saved from secularism when we weren’t looking?

But I am even more troubled by the attribution of obession to Catholics. Let’s take the example of homosexual “marriage”. Who is making that the issue of the day? Not Catholics, who were minding their own business until secular society decided that we must allow homosexuals to marry.

Imagine that you are in a conversation with a secularist. And he keeps insisting that we must allow homosexual marriage and badgering you why you are opposed to it. He will not give up the subject until you concede. Now along comes Pope Francis who excoriates you for your obsession with homosexual marriage.

It is worse than dishonest. It is stupid.
 
Who are “regular Catholics”? The ones that use birth control and have abortions in similar numbers to non Catholics?
No the one’s who aren’t so uppity that they actually believe the Holy Spirit is tamed and only resides in the TLM mass. 😛 Course those who you mention would be the flip side of the coin. 😉
 
Do you accept all doctrines and dogmas of the Catholic Church? Do you believe in the Catechism of the Catholic Church?
This Pope is not out to change doctrines or dogmas at all. He is about focusing on something important that has not been the focus of the Church in some time and that is God unmeasurable love and forgiveness for everyone of His children. That doesn’t mean he feels any less about the evils in the world. Again there must be a reason he was selected because Jesuits do not focus on ever becoming pope. He took the position because he was asked not because he wanted it.
 
If the church evolves in its teachings, as it has done in the past, will you evolve with it?
Vague question. How about some examples of how “teachings evolved in the past?”

If you are suggesting that longtime married deacons might be ordained priests one day, that’s one thing.

If you are suggesting that condoms and the pill will be endorse, well, go ahead and hold your breath! 😛
 
I really don’t understand the Church’s obsession with gay marriage. I’m sick of hearing about it. No one even knows what causes homosexuality, but if they want to pretend to be married, let them. We live in a free society, not a theocracy.

On abortion, I think we were better off when it was illegal, although a first trimester abortion is less serious in my mind because I doubt the fetus has self awareness. But, it shouldn’t be a central message of the Church. Salvation by God should.

I also think the Church fails to advocate for just divorce laws that more adequately protect the weak, AKA women and children. Did they just throw the towel in on that subject? Instead they worry about gay marriage.
 
This Pope is not out to change doctrines or dogmas at all. He is about focusing on something important that has not been the focus of the Church in some time and that is God unmeasurable love and forgiveness for everyone of His children. That doesn’t mean he feels any less about the evils in the world. Again there must be a reason he was selected because Jesuits do not focus on ever becoming pope. He took the position because he was asked not because he wanted it.
That is where I see a disconnect. I can’t think of a Pope in recent times who has not emphasized mercy and forgiveness. Of course, if one seeks forgiveness, they must be aware that they need it to begin with.
 
I really don’t understand the Church’s obsession with gay marriage. I’m sick of hearing about it. No one even knows what causes homosexuality, but if they want to pretend to be married, let them. We live in a free society, not a theocracy.

On abortion, I think we were better off when it was illegal, although a first trimester abortion is less serious in my mind because I doubt the fetus has self awareness. But, it shouldn’t be a central message of the Church. Salvation by God should.

I also think the Church fails to advocate for just divorce laws that more adequately protect the weak, AKA women and children. Did they just throw the towel in on that subject? Instead they worry about gay marriage.
Are you aware that Christian companies who refuse to go along with the lgbtq agenda are being sued out of existence due to the promotion of gay “marriage?” It is a big deal because governments are deeming people who oppose it as enemies of the state.

Life begins at conception, no ifs ands or buts. Is the life of a severely mentally handicapped individual not worth the same as yours because they lack the cognitive awareness that you have?
 
I am really disappointed with Pope Francis. I hope I am proven wrong but it does not look good.

Let me note first that Francis is making a U-turn from Benedict in this respect. We were told by Benedict that the Church needed to focus on reviatlizing the core believers even if that meant a smaller church. Francis is telling us we need to reach out to the marginal believers and stop being so narrow-minded. What circumstances changed between these two? Did Francis decide that Benedict’s strategy had been a failure? Was Europe saved from secularism when we weren’t looking?

But I am even more troubled by the attribution of obession to Catholics. Let’s take the example of homosexual “marriage”. Who is making that the issue of the day? Not Catholics, who were minding their own business until secular society decided that we must allow homosexuals to marry.

Imagine that you are in a conversation with a secularist. And he keeps insisting that we must allow homosexual marriage and badgering you why you are opposed to it. He will not give up the subject until you concede. Now along comes Pope Francis who excoriates you for your obsession with homosexual marriage.

It is worse than dishonest. It is stupid.
Rather, this all reminds me of the jealousy of the older son in the parable of the prodigal son, because the father goes out to meeting his returning son half way.
 
I consider myself a social justice Catholic. One who strongly believes that love and how you treat others is far more important than religious doctrine and dogma.
The Church is both/and, not either/or. It has nothing to do with “more important” and “less important.” A Catholic is bound, by the conditions of Baptism and Confirmation, to affirm and support all of the doctrines of the Church, not just the social doctrine. No doubt there are wonderfully warm-hearted and giving prostitutes, cheaters, pornographers, abortionists, cohabiting couples, and liars who “treat others well” on a personal basis. It doesn’t make their personal behavior in line with Catholicism, however, or even, frankly, with the Gospel. Jesus told us that if we loved Him, we would keep His commandments.
 
I’m not personally affected by it but have spoken to several people who are.

In my opinion it’s ridiculous to declare a 10 or 20 year marriage with kids as ‘invalid’ as a way around the no divorce laws. Either allow divorce and cut the red tape, or stick to your guns.But pretending that marriages never happened is ridiculous in my opinion. No, I’m not going to start a new thread on it.
Well, I’ve spoken to 1000s of people affected by it. I don’t know of any of them that were driven away because of the process. People can be driven away when they don’t get the answer they want. It seems your problem is not with the process but with judges. Obviously, sometimes it is ridiculous to declare any marraige, however long it is, invalid. Other times, it is not, no matter how long it is. But, anyway, I imagine you really don’t know much about the process itself (not many people do) and have never read any actual cases (not many can). Thanks for the reply.

Dan
 
Life begins at conception, no ifs ands or buts. Is the life of a severely mentally handicapped individual not worth the same as yours because they lack the cognitive awareness that you have?
You should practice seeking common ground, instead of picking apart someone who is actually an ally on the abortion issue, but differs on one aspect of it.

And that is the problem with religious and politic zealotry. They isolate themselves with their devotion to purity of ideology.
 
That’s called Burger King, have it your way, not Catholicism. 😃
That’s why it’s interesting to see all of the uneasiness and discomfort expressed here in the wake of comments by a liberal minded Pope. Many here are expressing fears that they will no longer be able to “have it their way”. I think the fears are unfounded, but there is definitely a sense of discomfort in some of these posts, which suggest that some might not be on board with Catholicism if it takes a hard liberal turn. The Pope very clearly stated that he is no “right-winger”.
 
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