Pope Bluntly Faults Church's Focus on Gays and Abortion

[TMC]

I genuinely am grateful to you, Wisdom )), for providing me with that which I already read, but it still doesn’t help. Since when does the infallibility of faith reside in the people even if he does say “pastors and people together”? Maybe it will help if I tell you, or anyone else here that might want to take a shot at this, how I read it. This is the problem with stuff like this; I can’t call Francis up, or zip him off an email, and ask “Can you explain to me further what you meant by this…?”

What I got out of it is: Francis is saying that the people define the faith infallibly, and that the Holy Spirit, speaking through the majority of the people, tell the pope what next should be infallibly defined in matters of faith.

I think that the Pope gave a pretty good explanation in the interview. Also, its not a new concept. It is known as the Sensus Fidei. Among other places, it is found in Lumen Gentium and also in the Catechism (see CCC 92).

 

[saveusfromhell]

Is isn’t from the pulpits that we hear all this obsessiveness about these issues. The place to look is these forums. Just look at the nature of the threads. How many of them are (perhaps obsessively) about homosexuality, masturbation, abortion, contraception? Some people on these boards just love to be the “doctrine police” on these boards, ready to POUNCE on anyone who isn’t orthodox.

and some liberals come here to constantly challenge church teachings on these issues. and stir debate on them by using inflammatory language.
your comment being a prime example.

 

[GaryTaylor]

I was raised and baptized Catholic. Learned all the latin for the mass at 6 years old and was able to skip alter boy school.

Served mass until very late teens including walking a very long distance to a hospital routinely to serve there and voluteer at the hospital.

When I first became an alter boy I was short , have blonde hair and blue eyes and no one could barely see me walking up the isle with the priest. My parents went crazy and called me the little angel.

I got a job and paid for all my catholic private schooling and books and gym equipment with my own earned money.

Thats my up bringing and now I enjoy reading Nihil Obstat for relaxing, how about yourself?

and good to meet your acquaintance to be sure

That’s a lot to not the question? Do I need to be anymore direct? I asked for water you gave me gasoline.

Great to meet you in viral world.

I’ll take it you don’t want to discuss your congregation? You just want validate it without mention.

 

[opus101]

Is isn’t from the pulpits that we hear all this obsessiveness about these issues. The place to look is these forums. Just look at the nature of the threads. How many of them are (perhaps obsessively) about homosexuality, masturbation, abortion, contraception? Some people on these boards just love to be the “doctrine police” on these boards, ready to POUNCE on anyone who isn’t orthodox.

I think it is more reactionary than something that originates with the members themselves. It is a reflection on society and its own obsessions, and a reaction to it.

 

[einna]

Exactly! Francis has just said it in a way more people will understand.

I will keep encouraging those who have not yet read the article in the American Magazine about Pope Francis to do so. It may give you more clarity of where he is coming from as a Jesuit. It is long but try to get to the end because that is where some of his most important thought are expressed.

As many are upset at his using the terms “close minded”, you may see that open mindedness to the Jesuits is different, maybe more of a process, than others.

Now some might like Pope Francis even less after reading the article, but I think it is important to understand where he is coming from, especially how he might be different the the Popes we have experienced in the last decade. No better or worse just different. I do like the part where he says that to understand a person plight we must experience it some how. How many have gone into the slums to experience why a poor kids becomes a thief or drug addict. How can we judge what we cannot comprehend?

 

[anglicanusepapa]

Is isn’t from the pulpits that we hear all this obsessiveness about these issues. The place to look is these forums. Just look at the nature of the threads. How many of them are (perhaps obsessively) about homosexuality, masturbation, abortion, contraception? Some people on these boards just love to be the “doctrine police” on these boards, ready to POUNCE on anyone who isn’t orthodox.

All Catholics are called and required to be orthodox in their religious beliefs. To be orthodox is to believe and accept all the teachings (dogmas) of the Church. If you openly defy and contradict the Church you are effectively no longer a Catholic.

This is not in reference to private sins, which we all have and are dealt with through repentance in confession. It is about openly defying the Church and promoting immoral bahaviour thus leading others into sin.

KNK

 

[L_Reynolds]

That’s a lot to not the question? Do I need to be anymore direct? I asked for water you gave me gasoline.

Great to meet you in viral world.

I’ll take it you don’t want to discuss your congregation? You just want validate it without mention.

My Catholic congregation is very special and the Pastor was from Africa and was a terffic and inspiring speaker, role model and example for all esp the children. We talked on the phone well also and Im not mentioning the name of the Church. We have a new Priest now.

Please continue.

 

[Midwest88]

And we all know how evil responds to love right? I recall my lessons all those years ago. Michael the Archangel treated Satan with love. Actually went to Starbucks together and Michael treated Satan with respect. This of course melted Satan’s heart who immediately changed his ways.

LOL yea some posters here are as naive as heck. And they’re full grown adults paying taxes, married or divorced, gainfully employed and maybe have grandchildren yet they sound like a bunch of doormats. It’s like they threw judgment out the door and welcomed “WUV!”

I believe that we are not actually teaching when we say “Who am I to judge.” If we are unwilling to condemn certain behaviors and take the soft middle on everything, then in the end do we really stand for anything anyway? The political correctness of this desire to “not judge” will make us irrelevant. After all, are we teaching by saying, “Don’t do this, unless you really want to?”

Took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[GaryTaylor]

I will keep encouraging those who have not yet read the article in the American Magazine about Pope Francis to do so. It may give you more clarity of where he is coming from as a Jesuit. It is long but try to get to the end because that is where some of his most important thought are expressed.

As many are upset at his using the terms “close minded”, you may see that open mindedness to the Jesuits is different, maybe more of a process, than others.

Now some might like Pope Francis even less after reading the article, but I think it is important to understand where he is coming from, especially how he might be different the the Popes we have experienced in the last decade. No better or worse just different. I do like the part where he says that to understand a person plight we must experience it some how. How many have gone into the slums to experience why a poor kids becomes a thief or drug addict. How can we judge what we cannot comprehend?

This article?

americamagazine.org/pope-interview

 

[Fevronia]

LOL yea some posters here are as naive as heck. And they’re full grown adults paying taxes, married or divorced, gainfully employed and maybe have grandchildren yet they sound like a bunch of doormats. It’s like they threw judgment out the door and welcomed “WUV!”

What I also don’t get is that people think they can do a better job than Jesus. Jesus himself, the Word of God himself, got rejected by many when he went to spread the good news.

So it is a fact that the Church will be rejected by many. We can’t just stop calling out sins and errors because we want to win followers. I thought we tried that for 50 years now without much in the way to show. All we accomplished is confusion among even Catholics who want to try and live according to the Church.

 

[GaryTaylor]

My Catholic congregation is very special .

Its capital C and not small c now?

Right, if your so sure you have it right about your Salvation thus your [c]atholic congregation then why not put it up for it is, and shout it from the rooftop?

Is that double standard? I think it might be.

 

[Avila123]

ncregister.com/daily-news/pope-francis-focuses-on-the-bigger-picture-with-new-interview/

Suggest looking at the above. All I have seen so far is satan doing his usual with his willing servants in the media i.e. twist the truth. I just hope that the sensational headlines also cause people throughout the world to sit down and read every word of the article and not rely on tittle tattle, hearsay or gossip.

On a final note: I saw the Facebook Thank You from Pro Choice women everywhere.
Wow, fancy them thanking the Pope for maintaining the church’s stance on pro-life!!

I would love to think they had repented and wished to be reconciled with the Church, but I suspect that they did not read the article and will never admit it. The headlines from Facebook should read “Pope Receives Accolade from Pro Choice Women, for Defending Pro Life” or “Pope’s Words Convert Pro Choice Women to Pro Life”.

 

[Lormar]

I think that the Pope gave a pretty good explanation in the interview. Also, its not a new concept. It is known as the Sensus Fidei. Among other places, it is found in Lumen Gentium and also in the Catechism (see CCC 92).

I’m not trying to be snarky (sometimes I don’t even have to try, but this isn’t one of those times), but can you point me to when the Church taught this before Lumen Gentium? I understand about the “sensus fidei” - but that is not what he was talking about. If I thought the pope gave a pretty good explanation, I wouldn’t be seeking to understand. His explanation might have sufficed for you, but not me.

 

[L_Reynolds]

I need to get back to responsibilities and will be back later . Can someone explain how Gods Blessing or endorsement can be refused in a quest for marriage itself ?

And if so refused, how is it not a greater form of rejection, what is being supposed in an effort of acceptance to begin with.

 

[einna]

This article?

americamagazine.org/pope-interview

Yes. Like I said you might not agree or like everything, but it seems to make clear where he is coming from and his beliefs. Plus it is not from a political or social media, but it is written by another Jesuit, so take that for what its worth???

 

[wittgenstein]

biblehub.com/matthew/7-3.htm
We should concentrate on our own sins. This obsession with homosexuality is not Christian.
Also, there are more serious sins. Mass starvation, genocide, the environment…
The hatred of sins of other people is only a feel good morality and not a spiritual or real morality. It is based more on pride then concern for others.
Pope Francis is fantastic!

 

[AdvanceAlways]

biblehub.com/matthew/7-3.htm
We should concentrate on our own sins. This obsession with homosexuality is not Christian.
Also, there are more serious sins. Mass starvation, genocide, the environment…
The hatred of sins of other people is only a feel good morality and not a spiritual or real morality. It is based more on pride then concern for others.
Pope Francis is fantastic!

When Pope Benedict said similar things regarding mercy, did you find him fantastic? There is not an obsession with homosexuality. We aren’t the ones forcing an agenda on society, they are. And of course we should focus on our own sins, but we should also stand up for the truths of the Catholic religion.

 

[L_Reynolds]

Its capital C and not small c now?

Right, if your so sure you have it right about your Salvation thus your [c]atholic congregation then why not put it up for it is, and shout it from the rooftop?

Is that double standard? I think it might be.

Oh Well .

 

[Julian_Bashir]

Well, exactly. Say that Francis hasn’t changed Catholic doctrine on gays and everyone will jump on the bandwagon. Call gays “perverts” and there’s a deafening, approving silence.

The Catholic church will have absorbed what Francis is saying when there’s as much said against such a view on a Catholic forum as the “traditionalists” can stir up against attending a mass in a living language or women wearing pants.

Try waiting more than ten minutes between posts at 0111 EST before proclaiming deafening silence.

 

[ishii]

When Pope Benedict said similar things regarding mercy, did you find him fantastic? There is not an obsession with homosexuality. We aren’t the ones forcing an agenda on society, they are. And of course we should focus on our own sins, but we should also stand up for the truths of the Catholic religion.

Yes. I would suggest that the ones obsessing over gay marriage is the gay lobby and secular left bent on pushing its agenda on the rest of society.

Ishii