Pope Bluntly Faults Church's Focus on Gays and Abortion

[Mark121359]

There seems to be a good deal of fear expressed by some here and I’ve got to confess that it completely confuses me.

I think this fear to a certain degree stems from the fact that to my mind at least, they see a certain amount of modernism that has crept into the Church. This modernism largely rejects the authority of the Fathers of the Church and the Magisterium of the Church, and many traditional teachings that were once sacred are now being shelved, or at least frowned upon. And I’m not suggesting that this Pope is a modernist by any means. But I do believe that modernism in the Church presently exists…and it’s a threat to be sure.

Peace, Mark

 

[The_Bucket]

We’ve had 50 years of post Vatican II emphasis on feelings, and love, and more feelings, and the amount of moral evil in the world has seemingly only become worse. I’m not saying that emphasizing God’s love is bad, obviously it isn’t, it’s the message of Salvation, but to act as if love without doctrine will help anything is foolish.

Has it now? Abortion did not exist before Vatican II? Homosexuality did not exist before Vatican II?

I daresay the world is getting less evil. Prior to Vatican II we had world war and genocide. We turned a blind eye to Stalin massacring 50 million of his own people in the Soviet Union. We had race-based discrimination and before that, race-based slavery.

We had pogroms against the Jews carried out by so-called Christian leaders. We had the Inquisition. We had all manner of horrors.

Many of them continue today. But you know what? The poor are getting more food. People are being lifted out of poverty. The world is a slightly less bad place. Is it all moving in the right direction? Certainly not.

But not just 40 years ago we in this nation were trying to keep homosexuals from getting houses. Think of that! Certain sinners singled out to be banned from housing meanwhile fornicators, adulterers, greedy individuals, those inclined to violence and hatred… they were just fine.

Does this mean we need to all now say that homosexual acts are morally licit? Surely not. But why is that sin singled out and others can continue to sin as they please and are not discriminated against?

 

[kmuestwin]

Every time this pope makes a statement that is in line with what the Church has always said, people act like hes changing all the rules. It’s nuts.

 

[Birdpreacher]

We’ve had 50 years of post Vatican II emphasis on feelings, and love, and more feelings, and the amount of moral evil in the world has seemingly only become worse. I’m not saying that emphasizing God’s love is bad, obviously it isn’t, it’s the message of Salvation, but to act as if love without doctrine will help anything is foolish.

1. 50 years is a drop in the bucket of a 2,000 year old church
2. “moral evil in the world is increasing” - why would you say this, i find it very interesting. is this just how you personally feel or do you have objective evidence to back up this claim.
3. as for the need for doctrine, i agree but doctrine is just an outward sign of our relationship with God which cannot even begin to exist or be put to good use without answering affirmatively to God’s call to share in his love

 

[dans0622]

A couple remarks. First, who is the Pope to judge whether someone is overly concerned with certain topics? Seriously, I think we should not be too quick to say “Oh, the Pope is certainly talking about so-and-so.” I’m not sure who he is talking about (for example, I don’t know who preaches often about any particular, moral issue) but let’s hope they know who they are.

As a canon lawyer, of course I am concerned with rules, some of them quite small. Is anyone going to say that the Pope is telling me to not be concerned with rules? Please, be my guest. Likewise, for those who are involved in pro-life or pro-marriage causes, don’t think the Pope is telling you to stop your work. On the contrary, keep it up and make sure you carry it out for the right, and most secure, reasons (those based on example of Christ).

Also, I concur with Pope Francis that Pope Benedict acted prudently in issuing Summorum pontificum.

Dan

P.S. I’d also add that this article is another example of proving who is really “obsessed” with gays, etc.: the secular press.

 

[AdvanceAlways]

1. 50 years is a drop in the bucket of a 2,000 year old church
2. “moral evil in the world is increasing” - why would you say this, i find it very interesting. is this just how you personally feel or do you have objective evidence to back up this claim.
3. as for the need for doctrine, i agree but doctrine is just an outward sign of our relationship with God which cannot even begin to exist or be put to good use without answering affirmatively to God’s call to share in his love

I believe that moral evil in the world is increasing because due to modernism in the Church, countless souls believe that it is okay to practice moral evils while being in good standing with the Church.

 

[agnes_therese]

but to act as if love without doctrine will help anything is foolish.

And nowhere has His Holiness said it will.

 

[Kevin_B]

Wow, I love Pope Francis. These are things I’ve been saying for years. Finally, a Pope who believes in compassion. A Pope who doesn’t wear outlandishly flashy clothing. A Pope who focuses on charity rather than on others sins.

Finally, a pope who acts like Jesus.

 

[gracepoole]

I am sorry; I think the Church puts too much emphasis on the poor.

Wow. It just shows to go how differently we can all see things. I think the opposite is true, though it seems the tide may be turning.

I think this fear to a certain degree stems from the fact that to my mind at least, they see a certain amount of modernism that has crept into the Church. This modernism largely rejects the authority of the Fathers of the Church and the Magisterium of the Church, and many traditional teachings that were once sacred are now being shelved, or at least frowned upon. And I’m not suggesting that this Pope is a modernist by any means. But I do believe that modernism in the Church presently exists…and it’s a threat to be sure.

Peace, Mark

To me, it doesn’t seem like modernism – it seems ancient, if you get my meaning. I’m sure some will read my words here and nod emphatically to a meaning I don’t intend. But it seems that Francis is fond of reverting to a far more early Christian view – stripping the Church down to essentials (Christ and His bride).

 

[dans0622]

Wow, I love Pope Francis. These are things I’ve been saying fit years. Finally, a Pope who believes in compassion. …

Finally, a pope who acts like Jesus.

…As opposed to whom?..Soon-to-be St. John Paul II, or…St. John XXIII…or…that un-Christ-like Benedict XVI, certainly. Totally absurd.

Dan

 

[AdvanceAlways]

Wow, I love Pope Francis. These are things I’ve been saying for years. Finally, a Pope who believes in compassion. A Pope who doesn’t wear outlandishly flashy clothing. A Pope who focuses on charity rather than on others sins.

Finally, a pope who acts like Jesus.

Name me a Pope that didn’t believe in compassion. Name me a Pope that wore outlandishly flashy clothing. Name me a pope who didn’t focus on charity. You can’t.

 

[AdvanceAlways]

Wow. It just shows to go how differently we can all see things. I think the opposite is true, though it seems the tide may be turning.

To me, it doesn’t seem like modernism – it seems ancient, if you get my meaning. I’m sure some will read my words here and nod emphatically to a meaning I don’t intend. But it seems that Francis is fond of reverting to a far more early Christian view – stripping the Church down to essentials (Christ and His bride).

Stripping down the Church to its essentials? Sounds like what Martin Luther was trying to do.

 

[Lormar]

Wow, I love Pope Francis. These are things I’ve been saying for years. Finally, a Pope who believes in compassion. A Pope who doesn’t wear outlandishly flashy clothing. A Pope who focuses on charity rather than on others sins.

Finally, a pope who acts like Jesus.

I’ve been here a long time and read countless posts, but this one wins the prize.

What an insult to each and every pope, including Peter, in the Catholic Church.

Your post is a disgrace.

 

[exnihilo]

But not just 40 years ago we in this nation were trying to keep homosexuals from getting houses. Think of that! Certain sinners singled out to be banned from housing meanwhile fornicators, adulterers, greedy individuals, those inclined to violence and hatred… they were just fine.

Does this mean we need to all now say that homosexual acts are morally licit? Surely not. But why is that sin singled out and others can continue to sin as they please and are not discriminated against?

We still try to prevent some types of sinners from having homes. There are laws throughout this nation that prevent a person convicted of a sex crime from being able to live in proximity to schools and day cares. So the principle of keeping some types of sinners away from people is still applied. In fact that is a reason for prisons, which most people don’t object to.

What has changed is not the principle of punishing sins or even keeping sinners away but what sins are worthy of punishment. You do have to draw a line somewhere. At one time homosexuality was considered a serious sin. That it is not such a big sin anymore is probably only due to the fact that there is so much serious sin in western culture. Sinners tend to band together and agree to ignore other folks sins if they’ll ignore theirs. That is not the path to holiness but the path to devilishness.

 

[JohnPaul]

“The church sometimes has locked itself up in small things, in small-minded rules.”

Which rules are small-minded? The fact that this statement is in the same section as his commentary on abortion, contraception and same-sex marriage is troubling.

It’s within his purview to eliminate whatever ‘small minded’ rules these are … if he doesn’t like them, change them.

 

[freiabereinsam]

:bigyikes:

This is an obvious step in the “acceptance” by the Church of these sins. What an awful Pope! His papacy is already becoming a big mistake, fast. And what he’s saying is only maybe half true. I don’t think most churches hear anything serious from the pulpit about these problems.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

I believe that moral evil in the world is increasing because due to modernism in the Church, countless souls believe that it is okay to practice moral evils while being in good standing with the Church.

Pope Francis does not condone moral evil. He leads us in another approach to those who may be ivolved in it fo any number of reasons. Note that his main priority seem to be “healing”.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Archbishop Chaput said in 2011

We make a very serious mistake if we rely on media like the New York Times, Newsweek, CNN, or MSNBC for reliable news about religion. These news media simply don’t provide trustworthy information about religious faith—and sometimes they can’t provide it, either because of limited resources or because of their own editorial prejudices. These are secular operations focused on making a profit. They have very little sympathy for the Catholic faith, and quite a lot of aggressive skepticism toward any religious community that claims to preach and teach God’s truth.

firstthings.com/onthesquare/2011/08/world-youth-day-and-religious-freedom

 

[AdvanceAlways]

Pope Francis does not condone moral evil. He leads us in another approach to those who may be ivolved in it fo any number of reasons. Note that his main priority seem to be “healing”.

All I got from the interview was that by healing, he hints at acceptance. The fact that he referred to getting caught up with rules when referring to topics like abortion feels like a stab in the back.

 

[Thomas_B]

I love this pope, he is awesome. I love that he is exhorting us Catholics to embrace all people with charity, humility and a loving attitude. That is where real change starts. The problem I see with some of the more conservative members of the Church is that the attitude is all wrong.

True story. I used to belong a Catholic group. We were having a discussion on the topic of homosexuality and one of the members who was a lapsed Catholic trying to get back into her faith mentioned her sister was a lesbian. One of the outspoken conservative members then proclaimed, “well, your sister has to stop being a lesbian or she’s going to hell!” A riotous discussion ensued and the member left the meeting in tears. Needless say she never returned to the group and I wonder if she ever returned to the Church.

I also have a friend who is a practicing Catholic but happens to vote Democrat. A lot of her conservative friends constantly criticize her and call her a baby killer for voting Democrat. She’s no longer friends with most of them, but out of kindness and charity attempts to remain friends with some of them.

Attitude matters and I applaud the Pope for stressing this.