Pope Bluntly Faults Church's Focus on Gays and Abortion

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weller2 said:
Excellent.

Notice that there is not a single instance in the Gospel when someone guilty of a common vice – prostitution, adultery, bribery, etc. – would be condemned. Asked to repent, yes, but not condemned. There’s only one category of sins which brings condemnation – hypocrisy. This is what Pharisees were guilty of.

The “scandal” of Francis is that he is condemns hypocrites within the Church and highlights the good in a common man.
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Sexual sins (prostitution, adultery and yes homosexual behaviour) and bribery are not "common vice"s, there are mortal sins that endanger the person’s soul with eternal damnation (hell).

I think you should do some reading in Catholic moral theology.

KNK
 
Anglicanueppa,

You are confused at best. Jesus never condemed anyone. The condemnation you seem to be folllowing is coming from the first testiment. There is a lot of evil in that book… Nothing holy about it… it was written by Man…

Jesus however never ever ever talked about the first testiment… He talked about:

Love, Tolerance, Kindness, and becoming enlightened.

Your views - are for sure nothing what so ever in line with what Christ taugh. I’m not saying your “not a Christian”… I’m saying, you should probably re-evaluate your life in accordance to Jesus… Dude, he is the “only way”.
anglicanusepapa said:
Jesus did not simply (only) love, He also told us to I will now respond in kind. How dare you call yourself a “Christian” when you deny the truths of the Catholic faith. When Sacred Sripture condemns homosexuality (as in Romans and various other books of the Bible) Jesus is also condemning hfatiomosexual behaviour, since the Bible is God’s Word and Jesus is God. Scripture, according to the Holy Catholic Church, is inerrant and Jesus Himself said that not any part (jot or tittle) of the Law (Scripture) would pass away.

KNK
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YoungTradCath said:
Lawl, I have never heard a homily on any of these topics. Yes, many Catholic organizations whose specific purpose is one or several of these topics do exist. But as far as actual contact in the parish setting with the teachings on these subjects, I have none.
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Very good point.

I would say that the vast majority of Catholics, at least in the U.S., have seldom if ever
heard anything about these topics from their priest, and probably have never been catechized about any of them on the parish level.

It is the press and certain “lobbies” that obsess on these things, causing faithful Catholics who are in the public eye to respond. As soon as there is a response, it is published the world over, making it seem as if the Church is always talkng about them.

I think Pope Francis is innocent as a dove, but also wise as a serpent. He knows he is among wolves. This was his way of bringing to light that it is not the Church that is obsessed with sex, but rather those who seek to destroy her . He basically was saying to them “Must we always speak of these things?”, actually catching them in their own missteps. Ironically, those words were reported!

It was actually quite clever of him.
 
Lormar said:
I know plenty out of the Church too, don’t you? 🙂
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Well, isn’t the whole point that those inside should be better than those outside?

If you’re like them why have the Church – so you can feel excused?
 
Mr. BigBlueCane I think you make pretty good points… However, I think putting an end to abortion should be a priority of the Church.
 
The problem with the abortion issue is that, society doesn’t support marriage anymore, birth fathers have a right to interfere with a potential adoption and take the baby if the mother doesn’t want it. This backs the moms into a corner with abortion their only apparent recourse out of a sticky situation. Or single motherhood with a never ending tie to a possible total jerk.

I know single, unmarried moms who can’t move out of their county without permission from the courts. The FOB (father of baby) continuously disrupts their lives. Who can’t blame them for wanting an easy way out, since the FOB would also nix an adoption.

The abortion issue is a complex one. You just have to have compassion for people above all else and not demonize people
 
anglicanusepapa said:
Sexual sins (prostitution, adultery and yes homosexual behaviour) and bribery are not "common vice"s, there are mortal sins that endanger the person’s soul with eternal damnation (hell).

I think you should do some reading in Catholic moral theology.
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Yes, and we know that Jesus reserved his most colorful metaphors for sexual sinners… oh wait, he did not. He was too busy firing at the religious elite of his day.
 
Country_Gal said:
The problem with the abortion issue is that, society doesn’t support marriage anymore, birth fathers have a right to interfere with a potential adoption and take the baby if the mother doesn’t want it. This backs the moms into a corner with abortion their only apparent recourse out of a sticky situation. Or single motherhood with a never ending tie to a possible total jerk.

I know single, unmarried moms who can’t move out of their county without permission from the courts. The FOB (father of baby) continuously disrupts their lives. Who can’t blame them for wanting an easy way out, since the FOB would also nix an adoption.

The abortion issue is a complex one. You just have to have compassion for people above all else and not demonize people
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Well a baby was killed but we can of course forget about that because now we are all happy 😊

We can justify almost anything this way. People don’t just do bad things without motivations. Everyone has motivations. The person who suicide bombs himself and kills a lot of people might have been told it was a noble thing to do and his family will be taken care of. The person who goes on a school shooting may have had a bad childhood and it was their way of getting attention. All of these are compassionate sounding reasons but the acts themselves are heinous and inexcusable.
 
As for homosexuality, that’s another complex human situation. You have decent people with strong sexual desires for the same sex, who don’t feel called to celibacy. Who here doesn’t know an utterly loving and lovable homosexual? Many people have cherished relatives who are so inclined.

It’s not so simple for them, and people who don’t struggle with those desires really can’t walk in their moccasins.
 
weller2 said:
Yes, and we know that Jesus reserved his most colorful metaphors for sexual sinners… oh wait, he did not. He was too busy firing at the religious elite of his day.
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I am not sure you realize this but it appears to me that you are forgetting the real possibility that we might all be grouped among the Pharisees i.e. We say the Church leaders are the sinners and we are not the ones with sin.

That is what Pharisees did. They saw others as sinners but not themselves. Their problem was not that they taught what sin was and condemned it. Their problem was that they were unwilling to recognize their own sins. That sounds more like US than the Priests.
 
Country_Gal said:
As for homosexuality, that’s another complex human situation. You have decent people with strong sexual desires for the same sex, who don’t feel called to celibacy. Who here doesn’t know an utterly loving and lovable homosexual? Many people have cherished relatives who are so inclined.

It’s not so simple for them, and people who don’t struggle with those desires really can’t walk in their moccasins.
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True, true, true. However, what is your fundamental point? That, because something is hard, I shouldn’t have to do it?

What you say is true. But it is half the picture. As difficult as X, Y, or Z may or may not be, that does not morally justify (or de-justify, I might add) that act. How does difficult=the thing is now morally acceptable?
 
Country_Gal said:
The problem with the abortion issue is that, society doesn’t support marriage anymore, birth fathers have a right to interfere with a potential adoption and take the baby if the mother doesn’t want it. This backs the moms into a corner with abortion their only apparent recourse out of a sticky situation. Or single motherhood with a never ending tie to a possible total jerk.

I know single, unmarried moms who can’t move out of their county without permission from the courts. The FOB (father of baby) continuously disrupts their lives. Who can’t blame them for wanting an easy way out, since the FOB would also nix an adoption.

The abortion issue is a complex one. You just have to have compassion for people above all else and not demonize people
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Why shouldn’t fathers have the right to their children when the mom doesn’t want them? Both parents should have the right to a relationship with their children and both parents ( barring abuse or neglect) should have to approve a child being put up for adoption. Fathers are parents too. Women act like men are just sperm donors that should have no say and no relationship with their kids. I know from personal experience women will leave birth certificates blank and are advised to not tell the fathers they are pregnant with their children when there is no abuse or neglect involved.

Children have a right to a relationship with BOTH parents. And I say this as a woman and mother myself.
 
Country_Gal said:
As for homosexuality, that’s another complex human situation. You have decent people with strong sexual desires for the same sex, who don’t feel called to celibacy. Who here doesn’t know an utterly loving and lovable homosexual? Many people have cherished relatives who are so inclined.

It’s not so simple for them, and people who don’t struggle with those desires really can’t walk in their moccasins.
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To feel Homosexual inclinations is disordered. Homosexual acts are sin.

Do you know a lovable Pedophile? Does it make his Pedophilia NOT a disorder?
 
CountryGal… it surprises me how justify abortion or homosexual acts…

Do you also justify adultery? what if a woman married a nice man and then he turns into a “jerk”… do you think it’s all right if she commits adultery?
 
YoungTradCath said:
True, true, true. However, what is your fundamental point? That, because something is hard, I shouldn’t have to do it?

What you say is true. But it is half the picture. As difficult as X, Y, or Z may or may not be, that does not morally justify (or de-justify, I might add) that act. How does difficult=the thing is now morally acceptable?
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Exactly. We might as well say Hell is GOOD now because going to Heaven is hard according to Christ himself.
 
lovetheworld said:
Anglicanueppa,

You are confused at best. Jesus never condemed anyone. The condemnation you seem to be folllowing is coming from the first testiment. There is a lot of evil in that book… Nothing holy about it… it was written by Man…

Jesus however never ever ever talked about the first testiment… He talked about:

Love, Tolerance, Kindness, and becoming enlightened.

Your views - are for sure nothing what so ever in line with what Christ taugh. I’m not saying your “not a Christian”… I’m saying, you should probably re-evaluate your life in accordance to Jesus… Dude, he is the “only way”.
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Then do you deny the Truth of the Catholic Faith? Please answer yhe question, because everything I stated is the teaching of the Church.

Once again I will repond in kind. I don’t need to reevaluate my life in accordance to Jesus as I believe all that the Holy Catholic Church believes and teaches. Jesus speaks through His Church. You are not a Christian as you do not accept all of Scripture and deny the teachings of Christ’s Holy Catholic Church.

And, dude, you are a very disrespectful person. Learn some manners and some proper English grammar.

KNK
 
lovetheworld said:
Anglicanueppa,

You are confused at best. Jesus never condemed anyone. The condemnation you seem to be folllowing is coming from the first testiment. There is a lot of evil in that book… Nothing holy about it… it was written by Man…

Jesus however never ever ever talked about the first testiment… He talked about:

Love, Tolerance, Kindness, and becoming enlightened.

Your views - are for sure nothing what so ever in line with what Christ taugh. I’m not saying your “not a Christian”… I’m saying, you should probably re-evaluate your life in accordance to Jesus… Dude, he is the “only way”.
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your post is not consistent with Catholic teaching.
 
Lormar said:
Do you think Pope Francis would have lashed out?
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Since you asked, I don’t think Pope Francis would read anything on this site and if he happen to read something like that I would think he would be very disappointed and prayer for that person. I hardly lashed out and I am nowhere close to being pope like.

One thing I do not understand here is many of these posters have believed that God and the Holy Spirit were working through the last two Popes why this cannot be happening with Pope Francis.
 
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