Pope Bluntly Faults Church's Focus on Gays and Abortion

[livingwordunity]

Which is why comments telling us all to stop talking about it are disheartening and out of touch with reality.

I interpreted it as him telling the reporters to stop asking him about it since they keep asking him when he has already given them an answer.

 

[gracepoole]

I think our Pope is a genius at evangelizing. By making an ambiguous statement in an interview, he appears to give the liberal activists what they want without actually giving it to them (since an interview doesn’t change any doctrines) thus taking some of the steam out of their anger for the Catholic Church while, at the same time, getting the average Joe on the street to ask “what is this Catholicism about?” because the subject came up on shows like David Letterman. Once someone starts to wonder what it’s about, and they start to look into the teachings, they are on the way to becoming Catholic.

What about his comments is ambiguous?

Which is why comments telling us all to stop talking about it are disheartening and out of touch with reality.

Who is telling us/you/someone to stop talking about it?

 

[WorkingParent]

Berating people never works…if you want Catholics to come home or bring new converts in. Scare tactics and guilt trips worked on uneducated immigrants during the early part of the last century. It doesn’t work in this century. This Pope is startiing from scratch. To teach as Jesus did.

This times 100. I’ve been watching this discussion all day and finally joined this forum just so I could come here and show my support for what Julianna said.

I have volunteered in a Church-sponsored crisis pregnancy center and have seen women from all walks of life. Nearly every one of them is frightened. And not just frightened in a “I’m not ready to be a parent” sort of way, although there is certainly plenty of that. I’ve seen, “I’m afraid I won’t be able to feed my other children. I’m afraid my husband will (literally) kill me when he finds out. I’m afraid of another beating. I’m afraid I’ll lose my job. I’m afraid my parents will kick me out.” And on and on and on.

Lecturing a woman in this kind of situation that she’s a sinner and needs to repent does not make her want to join the ranks of Christian soldiers. She’s come to us in need and instead of showing her why Jesus will give her unconditional love, we shame her. (and when she does have the baby we so adamantly wanted her to have and needs government assistance, she magically morphs into a Welfare Queen that we all feel free to berate and despise.) We sweep her and her child under the rug and comfort ourselves by saying, “it’s her own fault.”

Women who leave crisis pregnancy centers angry at how they have been treated there don’t come back to the Church for help–they go to Planned Parenthood and have abortions. Know why? Planned Parenthood doesn’t treat their patients like soiled goods.
Even after 40 years of a very active, vocal and visible ProLife movement with a vigorous effort in the courts to shut down abortion clinics and Planned Parenthood, abortion rates in this country are largely unchanged. And as long as we Catholics insist on telling pregnant women why they should be ashamed of themselves instead of showing them why Christ loves them, many of them will continue to see abortion as the lesser of two evils.

 

[saveusfromhell]

the pope knows well the storm his comments have caused and the way they have been taken out of context/protrayed. he can easily fix this by clarifying. if he doesn’t,
then it would seem to me that he is happy for the MMS version of what’s making news world wide as his views to stay out there.

apart from people who visit this forum, how many others around the world could possible know, any other version than the one in the news today

 

[zab]

I am not sure what Masses you all attend but I have not recently heard any homily on abortion, gay marriage or contraception. The silence is deafening.

As I said in another thread, imagine if you were a young Catholic university student, doing all the right things. All your liberal friends would mock you and say “even the Pope doesn’t agree with you”.

This interview is a massive own-goal and the glee with which it is being reported by the NY Times and other media is proof of this.

Pope Benedict would have never said these things. He would have never called those fighting the hard culture war issues “small minded” or suggested these valiant souls were the problem. Pope Francis has handed a big “get out of jail” card to the Bidens, Pelosis etc that routinely defy core teachings. The whole interview is a shambolic disaster. We can only pray for the Pope to be wiser and show greater discernment in his words and gestures.

Pope Francis is not Pope Benedict. He is responding to the guidance of the Holy Spirit in leading the Church. We should all pray that he fulfills the mission given to him for the Church. I disagree with your interpretation of the interview. Pope Francis never said anything to contradict Church teachings and no where did I get the impression that he defended those who reject Church teaching.

 

[livingwordunity]

I think our Pope is a genius at evangelizing. By making an ambiguous statement in an interview, he appears to give the liberal activists what they want without actually giving it to them (since an interview doesn’t change any doctrines) thus taking some of the steam out of their anger for the Catholic Church while, at the same time, getting the average Joe on the street to ask “what is this Catholicism about?” because the subject came up on shows like David Letterman. Once someone starts to wonder what it’s about, and they start to look into the teachings, they are on the way to becoming Catholic.

What about his comments is ambiguous?

The interview setting in itself is what makes it ambiguous since we have to take human error into account in any off-the-cuff remark. And an interview doesn’t change any doctrine. By contrast, an official encyclical is carefully thought out and edited so that we can know that what it says is exactly what was intended.

 

[holyrood]

Lecturing a woman in this kind of situation that she’s a sinner and needs to repent does not make her want to join the ranks of Christian soldiers. She’s come to us in need and instead of showing her why Jesus will give her unconditional love, we shame her. (and when she does have the baby we so adamantly wanted her to have and needs government assistance, she magically morphs into a Welfare Queen that we all feel free to berate and despise.) We sweep her and her child under the rug and comfort ourselves by saying, “it’s her own fault.”

Women who leave crisis pregnancy centers angry at how they have been treated there don’t come back to the Church for help–they go to Planned Parenthood and have abortions. Know why? Planned Parenthood doesn’t treat their patients like soiled goods.
Even after 40 years of a very active, vocal and visible ProLife movement with a vigorous effort in the courts to shut down abortion clinics and Planned Parenthood, abortion rates in this country are largely unchanged. And as long as we Catholics insist on telling pregnant women why they should be ashamed of themselves instead of showing them why Christ loves them, many of them will continue to see abortion as the lesser of two evils.

Like the Church supposedly talking endlessly about nothing but abortion and homosexuality…this is simply not my experience. I, too, have worked in a crisis pregnancy center and done a great deal of work with the pro-life movement. I know many Catholics and many pro-lifers, and I’ve never heard them treat pregnant women this way. I’ve seen them show and speak the love of Christ.

Neither I nor any of the Catholics and pro-lifers I’ve known over the years are part of this ‘we’ of whom you speak.

 

[Country_Gal]

The interview setting in itself is what makes it ambiguous since we have to take human error into account in any off-the-cuff remark. By contrast, an official encyclical is carefully thought out and edited so that we can know that what it says is exactly what was intended.

Much about the Catholic Catechism beats around the bush, frankly. The Bible itself leaves many things open to interpretation. The Church always refers to “The Mystery of Faith”

We are not meant to understand all, I feel.

 

[Fevronia]

Much about the Catholic Catechism beats around the bush, frankly. The Bible itself leaves many things open to interpretation. The Church always refers to “The Mystery of Faith”

We are not meant to understand all, I feel.

Would you also say something like Council of Trent also beats around the bush ?

 

[PennyinCanada]

I think this is where we should be focusing…

“I see the church as a field hospital after battle,” Francis said. “It is useless to ask a seriously injured person if he has high cholesterol and about the level of his blood sugars. You have to heal his wounds. Then we can talk about everything else.”

This is the core of what he was saying.

 

[YoungTradCath]

Even if one hasn’t heard about these topics at Mass, these topics are everywhere here. Can’t turn around in CAF without bumping into a thread about homosexuality, abortion, or birth control. Maybe it’s the flock, rather than the shepherd, that’s showing signs of obsession.

So, can one become “obsessed” with the poor?

 

[saveusfromhell]

This times 100. I’ve been watching this discussion all day and finally joined this forum just so I could come here and show my support for what Julianna said.
Lecturing a woman in this kind of situation that she’s a sinner and needs to repent does not make her want to join the ranks of Christian soldiers. She’s come to us in need and instead of showing her why Jesus will give her unconditional love, we shame her. (and when she does have the baby we so adamantly wanted her to have and needs government assistance, she magically morphs into a Welfare Queen that we all feel free to berate and despise.) We sweep her and her child under the rug and comfort ourselves by saying, “it’s her own fault.”

.

maybe in the fifties this may have made sense but I don’t believe that anybody priest or lay person when they encounter a woman who is pregnant tells her she is a sinner.

 

[anglicanusepapa]

I have never felt more demoralized and betrayed.

Pope Francis is saying to every devout Catholic who followed its moral teachings, and fought for them, that we are the enemy, and we need to “go away” because we are an embarrassment to him.

My father was worried when he found out Francis was a Jesuit, and his fears have been realized. Has there been any other order that have caused more problems for the Catholic Church than the Jesuits?

Now devout Catholics have nowhere to turn in our struggle against evil. Even our own Church is against us. It’s like the end of the world. I wish I had not lived to see these dark days.

My dear brother in Christ,

Please do not lose your faith or doubt our Holy Catholic Church.

I know how you feel and feel disheartened myself, but remember “the gates of hell shall not prevail”.

I love and pray for our Holy Father though I do not always agree with his approach to certain issues. I believe him to be a good and decent man.

Throughout the history of the Church no Pope has ever declared anything that is evil to be a part of Catholic dogma. We have even had some very sinful Popes in Church history but they never taught heresy even though their personal lives were filled with sin. The Holy Spirit has always protected the Bride of Christ. If we ever have a Pope that teaches heresy and proclaims evil to be good, then we will know the End is here and Christ will return.

In the meantime pray for our Holy Father and all the faithful. I really believe Pope Francis is a good man. That doesn’t mean he is perfect and we don’t always have to agree with him, just love him and pray for him. He is only infallible in very limited circumstances.

Lets use love and respect Pope Francis. Viva il Papa!

KNK

 

[gracepoole]

The interview setting in itself is what makes it ambiguous since we have to take human error into account in any off-the-cuff remark. By contrast, an official encyclical is carefully thought out and edited so that we can know that what it says is exactly what was intended.

If he asked for this interview and he said nothing in it that contradicts Church teaching, I have no reason to see his comments as anything but clear.

 

[Lion_IRC]

“…We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods.”

Note the bold.

We DO insist when it comes to these issues, just as we* insist *on many others.

If you want to believe the mainstream, hedonistic, mamon-worshipping media distortions and lies about the church, then why not accept their slanderous generalizations about priests and how the church is full of pedophiles?

 

[Gricken]

So, can one become “obsessed” with the poor?

Yes. I’ve seen that on this website, actually.

 

[catholicguy25]

I have never felt more demoralized and betrayed.

Pope Francis is saying to every devout Catholic who followed its moral teachings, and fought for them, that we are the enemy, and we need to “go away” because we are an embarrassment to him.

My father was worried when he found out Francis was a Jesuit, and his fears have been realized. Has there been any other order that have caused more problems for the Catholic Church than the Jesuits?

Now devout Catholics have nowhere to turn in our struggle against evil. Even our own Church is against us. It’s like the end of the world. I wish I had not lived to see these dark days.

Sir or Ma’am. I totally agree with you. I share with you your fears and disappointment. It seems that some sheep in order to feel accepted, and welcomed and loved by the church, need to hear from the Church that their sins are all right… And i totally fail to understand such reasoning! …I deal with some sins… and i don’t want to ever hear a homily where i’m told that my sins aren’t disgusting.

 

[Darryl1958]

I interpreted it as him telling the reporters to stop asking him about it since they keep asking him when he has already given them an answer.

Yours is an interesting theory. That is one possible explanation, for sure, and other people will no doubt have other conclusions.

That really does define the basic ambiguities of most of his position on the politics of the day.

 

[Cider]

This times 100. I’ve been watching this discussion all day and finally joined this forum just so I could come here and show my support for what Julianna said.

I have volunteered in a Church-sponsored crisis pregnancy center and have seen women from all walks of life. Nearly every one of them is frightened. And not just frightened in a “I’m not ready to be a parent” sort of way, although there is certainly plenty of that. I’ve seen, “I’m afraid I won’t be able to feed my other children. I’m afraid my husband will (literally) kill me when he finds out. I’m afraid of another beating. I’m afraid I’ll lose my job. I’m afraid my parents will kick me out.” And on and on and on.

Lecturing a woman in this kind of situation that she’s a sinner and needs to repent does not make her want to join the ranks of Christian soldiers. She’s come to us in need and instead of showing her why Jesus will give her unconditional love, we shame her. (and when she does have the baby we so adamantly wanted her to have and needs government assistance, she magically morphs into a Welfare Queen that we all feel free to berate and despise.) We sweep her and her child under the rug and comfort ourselves by saying, “it’s her own fault.”

Women who leave crisis pregnancy centers angry at how they have been treated there don’t come back to the Church for help–they go to Planned Parenthood and have abortions. Know why? Planned Parenthood doesn’t treat their patients like soiled goods.
Even after 40 years of a very active, vocal and visible ProLife movement with a vigorous effort in the courts to shut down abortion clinics and Planned Parenthood, abortion rates in this country are largely unchanged. And as long as we Catholics insist on telling pregnant women why they should be ashamed of themselves instead of showing them why Christ loves them, many of them will continue to see abortion as the lesser of two evils.

Who is advocating shaming pregnant women in crisis? I don’t know any Catholics that have called for that. We had a pregnancy crisis center at my old parish run by nuns. I have no idea who you are referring to because I’ve never seen it happen nor heard anyone advocate for that.

 

[livingwordunity]

Much about the Catholic Catechism beats around the bush, frankly. The Bible itself leaves many things open to interpretation. The Church always refers to “The Mystery of Faith”

We are not meant to understand all, I feel.

I think the only place in the Catechism of the Catholic Church that to me seems unclear is when it addresses masturbation. And the difference between an off-the-cuff interview and the CCC is the officialness of the CCC. It has been officially pronounced by the Pope that we can know that everything in the Catechism is to be taken by all the faithful as a “sure norm” in knowing the faith.