Pope Bluntly Faults Church's Focus on Gays and Abortion

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Country_Gal said:
I got the feeling, when I left the Church a few years back, that the Church was retreating into itself and downsizing. It was to be only for the strict legalists, focusing on liturgical correctness, strict interpretation of Church edicts, and a legalistic approach to the faith.

Now I have hope again. No, I don’t support abortion. No, I don’t think homosexuals can have a real marriage. But, I think there’s so much more to the Catholic Church that these issues.
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I think many people are feeling the way you do. His evangelizing seems to be working.
 
Country_Gal said:
I got the feeling, when I left the Church a few years back, that the Church was retreating into itself and downsizing. It was to be only for the strict legalists, focusing on liturgical correctness, strict interpretation of Church edicts, and a legalistic approach to the faith.

Now I have hope again. No, I don’t support abortion. No, I don’t think homosexuals can have a real marriage. But, I think there’s so much more to the Catholic Church that these issues.
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I am not sure where you got that impression. The parishes that I attend rarely mention the “hot button” issues except in certain cases. I think the legalistic approach went out with the 50’s - then swung on the opposite direction. Hopefully we are regaining a greater respect for the traditions and inspirational liturgical beauty that characterized the Church before the 70’s. The “down-sized” church are the ultra trads who broke away in the 80’s and 90’s - they view themselves as the remnant of the “true Church.” There has to be a balance. The balance might have been out of whack in the 50’s and earlier, but got out of whack in the other direction with clowns at mass, rock music, etc. in the 70’s & 80’s. That period was also a terrible time for catechesis and education of young catholics. We weren’t really taught the true faith - and so many have left the Church. Hopefully Pope Francis’ words will help bring some of them back.

Ishii
 
99th_Monkey said:
I think many people are feeling the way you do. His evangelizing seems to be working.
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While it is indeed great that people are taking another look at the Church, what becomes the point when charity for traditional leaning Catholics becomes a question. While some read this interview and feel hope, others feel the other way, and may feel the way Country Girl felt several years ago when she chose to leave, albeit for different reasons.
 
It’s interesting how all or most of us mention that we rarely hear a homily about abortion or gay marriage.
 
AdvanceAlways said:
While it is indeed great that people are taking another look at the Church, what becomes the point when charity for traditional leaning Catholics becomes a question. While some read this interview and feel hope, others feel the other way, and may feel the way Country Girl felt several years ago when she chose to leave, albeit for different reasons.
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I mean this with all due charity – but if others feel they no longer “fit” in the Church because of the new pontiff’s approach, it seems these folks have perhaps been trying to refashion the Church into what they’d prefer it to be (like the “liberals” or “progressives” who are so often accused of doing the same, just at the opposite end of the spectrum).
 
ishii said:
You’re right to a certain extent - have heard many testimonials about women recounting their experiences as an unwed mother and saying that their boyfriend was most adamant about getting the abortion. In many cases, the women’s parents are advocating abortion as well - there must be immense pressure to have the abortion in many cases. That should help us be compassionate toward women who have had abortions.

However, those factors do NOT minimize the moral gravity of the issue and the necessity to both do everything we can to stop the abortions and give the unborn the protection of the law. But we must communicate effectively - point out the moral issue while not condemning those who have made the wrong choice in difficult situations.

But there is so much confusion on this issue and I fear that this will add to the confusion.

Ishii
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I know what is right. I know what the church teaches. I am grateful to be reconciled with God by the mercy and love he has shown to me. Why should I feel disappointed that Pope Francis wants to go after the lost sheep? Some of my family- no, a lot of my family are among the lost sheep. Let him bring them home.
 
Country_Gal said:
I got the feeling, when I left the Church a few years back, that the Church was retreating into itself and downsizing. It was to be only for the strict legalists, focusing on liturgical correctness, strict interpretation of Church edicts, and a legalistic approach to the faith.

Now I have hope again. No, I don’t support abortion. No, I don’t think homosexuals can have a real marriage. But, I think there’s so much more to the Catholic Church that these issues.
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Of course there is more to it.

These are essential, and are the preeminent issues we face today. No one is having parades to encourage poverty. They are having parades to encourage the normalcy of homosexual relationships with marriage.

The ACA is under fire not because of how it treats the poor or the environment, but because it mandates religious organizations give up their religious freedom to pay for contraception.

These issues are in the forefront not because the Church brings them up, but because forces outside the Church do so. Have you heard 1/10th of the homilies about contraception or gay relations that you do about caring for the poor? I’d say the Church addresses that all the time. It is there to be a bulwark of whatever Satan throws at society in the present day.

You are under no obligation to crusade for those causes as a Catholic. You need to support the teachings, but why embrace your desire to help the poor and run with it as your pursuit? We need all types in our Church.
 
wow i see several comments very liberal. Are they catholic?

could someone tell me about the Eastern Orthodox Church? are they liberal as well?
 
AdvanceAlways said:
While it is indeed great that people are taking another look at the Church, what becomes the point when charity for traditional leaning Catholics becomes a question. While some read this interview and feel hope, others feel the other way, and may feel the way Country Girl felt several years ago when she chose to leave, albeit for different reasons.
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My friend,

In case you missed it, the Pope says the following in the interview.
“This motto,” the pope continues, “offers parameters to assume a correct position for discernment, in order to hear the things of God from God’s ‘point of view.’ According to St. Ignatius, great principles must be embodied in the circumstances of place, time and people. In his own way, John XXIII adopted this attitude with regard to the government of the church, when he repeated the motto, ‘See everything; turn a blind eye to much; correct a little.’ John XXIII saw all things, the maximum dimension, but he chose to correct a few, the minimum dimension. You can have large projects and implement them by means of a few of the smallest things. Or you can use weak means that are more effective than strong ones, as Paul also said in his First Letter to the Corinthians.
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This is of course a very non-traditional approach to how the Church operated. For most traditionalist Catholics who are in communion with the Church, this is indeed the very thing they see as the cause of the crisis in faith after Vatican II.

I personally disagree with the view of the Pope (as much as I respect him as our Holy Father) as well. I would not, as a parent, follow such a procedure at all because to my mind that system does not work. If your kids are not told and reminded continuously, in my experience they do go astray. I find humans to be very forgetful and careless. We can forget our earlier errors and corrections and fall in to the same thing again. Or if we are not told with clarity, we can misunderstand it in our own favor. I also believe our mistakes have real consequences that cannot be reversed that easily. Even if we regret them later, we cannot undo the great pain, suffering and loss of life we caused. So I do not believe in allowing mistakes but I would rather believe in preemptively avoiding them ever taking place.

It just so happens though that whether we like it or not, the Pope is going to try out something different. We cannot do anything about it. He is our leader and given authority by God himself to decide how he wants to plan his line of attack. We must pray that he be successful as he tries to reach out in the best way he sees fit. If not, with time he may even realize himself and take the more traditional approach.

I personally will not be following his methodology myself (because I am more traditionalist) and cannot in good conscience do so. So I will vocally oppose abortion, contraception, cohabitation, divorce and gay marriage. But I will certainly be praying for the Pope’s success.

EDIT: In defense of my position, from the same interview and words of Pope Francis
"We should not even think, therefore, that ‘thinking with the church’ means only thinking with the hierarchy of the church.”
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So I think he will be ok with my disagreement with him 🙂
 
Well, as a gay Catholic that has recently returned to mass after many years absence. I happy with what the Pope said today. I stopped going to Mass because my local parish displayed anti-gay and gay conversion pamphlets at the entrance of the Church. I found them offensive and certantily did not feel welcome in the Church. I even met with the Priest about it and we discussed my homosexuality and I was informed that I was gay because of “Mistakes that my parents had made in my up-bringing.” WOW… I never returned to Church… till about four months ago. I returned to my Old Parish where I grew up and served many years as an Altar boy. I came back for personal reasons and am happy I did. I have posted on this site and ignited a war or sorts that went into name calling in the end. In gratitude to God, I am thrilled this Man is my Spiritual leader.👍
 
zab said:
I know what is right. I know what the church teaches. I am grateful to be reconciled with God by the mercy and love he has shown to me. Why should I feel disappointed that Pope Francis wants to go after the lost sheep? Some of my family- no, a lot of my family are among the lost sheep. Let him bring them home.
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The church or the previous Popes always tried to go after the lost sheep, while at the same time making it very clear that homosexual acts, abortions, premarital sex and so on, are sins…Don’t you think it is important to make it very clear what constitutes a sin specially since there are people whose only connection with their faith is on Sundays when they attend mass? unfortunately when we attend mass we rarely hear about abortion or gay marriage… I think we need to hear homilies in church about those topics, at least once a month.
 
50,000,000 dead and that number increases by 3,000-4,000 every single day–and that is for the USA only!

I agree fully with the Pope that the Church needs to focus on so many critical issues, and I thank God for this loving and Holy man. Yet…50,000,000 dead and counting!
 
I think Pope Francis may have meant it for the reporters who keep asking him about abortion, “gays”, and contraception. He may have been trying to tell the interviewing reporters to stop asking him questions about these subjects over and over again when he’s already given them an answer. It could have been like saying “we can’t be obsessed with these questions, so stop asking them!” But, either way, it’s not the silver bullet that the liberals have been looking for since interviews don’t change doctrine. The encyclical that the Pope came out with was the big moment when he showed what he would change and what would stay the same. And he changed nothing.
 
HMSVictory said:
Well, as a gay Catholic that has recently returned to mass after many years absence. I happy with what the Pope said today. I stopped going to Mass because my local parish displayed anti-gay and gay conversion pamphlets at the entrance of the Church. I found them offensive and certantily did not feel welcome in the Church. I even met with the Priest about it and we discussed my homosexuality and I was informed that I was gay because of “Mistakes that my parents had made in my up-bringing.” WOW… I never returned to Church… till about four months ago. I returned to my Old Parish where I grew up and served many years as an Altar boy. I came back for personal reasons and am happy I did. I have posted on this site and ignited a war or sorts that went into name calling in the end. In gratitude to God, I am thrilled this Man is my Spiritual leader.👍
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Congratulations for being abstinent… we all are expected to be abstinent until marriage… and as we know, marriage is between a man and a woman.
i found strange what you mentioned about how they displayed anti gay conversion pamphlets at the entrance of your church. I attend different catholic churches and none of them ever mentions the topic of homosexuality, not that i recall. Anyways, sorry about such experience.
 
Abstinet ??? what business is it of yours ??? Not getting into a shouting match again. LISTEN to the Holy Fathers’ words. If he does not have a problem with me, then you as a good Catholic should not either.
 
I am not sure what Masses you all attend but I have not recently heard any homily on abortion, gay marriage or contraception. The silence is deafening.

As I said in another thread, imagine if you were a young Catholic university student, doing all the right things. All your liberal friends would mock you and say “even the Pope doesn’t agree with you”.

This interview is a massive own-goal and the glee with which it is being reported by the NY Times and other media is proof of this.

Pope Benedict would have never said these things. He would have never called those fighting the hard culture war issues “small minded” or suggested these valiant souls were the problem. Pope Francis has handed a big “get out of jail” card to the Bidens, Pelosis etc that routinely defy core teachings. The whole interview is a shambolic disaster. We can only pray for the Pope to be wiser and show greater discernment in his words and gestures.
 
HMSVictory said:
Well, as a gay Catholic that has recently returned to mass after many years absence. I happy with what the Pope said today. I stopped going to Mass because my local parish displayed anti-gay and gay conversion pamphlets at the entrance of the Church. I found them offensive and certantily did not feel welcome in the Church. I even met with the Priest about it and we discussed my homosexuality and I was informed that I was gay because of “Mistakes that my parents had made in my up-bringing.” WOW… I never returned to Church… till about four months ago. I returned to my Old Parish where I grew up and served many years as an Altar boy. I came back for personal reasons and am happy I did. I have posted on this site and ignited a war or sorts that went into name calling in the end. In gratitude to God, I am thrilled this Man is my Spiritual leader.👍
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Were the pamphlets really anti-homosexual or were they adhering to Catholic teaching. Remember homosexuality is inherently disordered and homosexual activity is depraved. This IS the teaching of the Church and can never be changed.

KNK
 
anglicanusepapa said:
Were the pamphlets really anti-homosexual or were they adhering to Catholic teaching. Remember homosexuality is inherently disordered and homosexual activity is depraved. This IS the teaching of the Church and can never be changed.

KNK
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Anti-gay and Gay conversion pamphlets… and as far as homosexuals/lifestyles, need to listen to the words of the Holy Father.
 
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