G
Gricken
Guest
Can I get an amen?
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J
JKirkLVNV
Guest
According to the Roman Catholic Church, homosexuality is intrinsically disordered and homosexual acts are gravely sinful. Nothing has changed that. It can’t BE changed.
E
einna
Guest
L
lovetheworld
Guest
My point exactly… we need to be respectful of all people… Gays, Catholics, and non belivers… everyone. Not being this way I said was barbaric… not that the views of the Catholic church are… Sorry, you may have misunderstood.
G
Gricken
Guest
I don’t know if it was RIGHT on. I’m not the pope. I don’t know what was going through his head. But I think that he meant that if we live the gospel, live the faith, follow the church, all be the saints we are called to be, then the issues of this world will sort out soon after.
Thank you for your post; it was right on!
A
AdvanceAlways
Guest
When the Pope is saying that it’s being talked about too much, that is a fundamental problem. From here on out, any Catholic speaking up against the evils of abortion or same sex marriage have lost credibility because the Pope thinks we talk about them too much. Anyone who complains about liturgical abuses will be met with “liturgy is just a small minded rule.” Standing up for the doctrine of the church? “You’re just imposing insistently disjointed doctrines.” This is why some of us are upset. Any fight against the greatest evils of our times can simply be met with “Pope Francis says you are wrong.”
G
Gricken
Guest
Then we should dismiss them as fools, and show them how to live a full, human life in God’s name. They’ll be attracted to us. I’ve seen it happen before.
A
AdvanceAlways
Guest
And where does that leave us who uphold 2000 years of doctrine and moral teachings? We’ve been hung out to dry.
G
Gricken
Guest
In all honesty it comes across like you are saying Pope Francis isn’t upholding 2000 years of doctrine and moral teaching.
D
Do_Good_Then_Go
Guest
Yep, exactly.
It’s funny you mention watching movies with him. I can so imagine him dropping in for dinner (“I was just passing”), enjoying the sausages and mash and the talk around the table, casually mentioning a couple of points that will plant seeds for later thinking, then helping with the dishes before he goes on his way.
A
AdvanceAlways
Guest
I don’t believe that is what the Pope is saying, I’m saying his words seemingly give credence to those who dissent. I’m not implying that the Pope meant that.
D
Do_Good_Then_Go
Guest
J
Julianna
Guest
Yep…me too! To teach as Jesus did. … what a concept!
A
AdvanceAlways
Guest
Teach as Jesus did, and don’t cause media firestorm after media firestorm. Pope Francis has shown the world a beautiful Christ like image of humility. That cannot be denied, but the fact that after every interview he gives, people have to dig through his words to seek clarity isn’t good.
M
mlund
Guest
It’s a simple concept, really, but people like to pervert it to excuse things it does not.
It does not excuse immorality of any sort - neither cruelty nor degeneracy.
His point on evangelism is clear: First in foremost is the Good News: Jesus is Lord. Christ is risen. He loves you and I, as imperfect as we may be, and He has made a way for your eternal salvation in His Holy and Apostolic Church - no matter who you are and what you have done.
That doesn’t mean dogma and Catechesis are optional. It doesn’t mean that the lukewarm get into Heaven. Much the opposite, to fail in fidelity to those things is to mislead others and that’s one of the worst things we can do as Christians. But that also means that we can’t let human failings like impatience, disdain, and gossip cause the teachings of the Church to fall on deaf ears. It means that we don’t quit on people or drive them out for their failings.
The teachings of Benedict XVI and Francis I emphasis two critical things that I feel have been largely lost in the Catholic culture of my native USA in the confused generations of the 70s, 80s, and 90s:
1.) It is not Charitable or Loving to lie to people about or gloss over the requirements of the faith - something we’re often guilty of doing in pursuit of making people “like” us.
2.) It is a failure of our shared duty to evangelize to just throw up our hands and ignore, ostracize, or condemn those at odds with the Church.
Both are forms of passivity (or passive-aggression) and conflict-avoidance that substitute for true Charity, but are all too common in modern society.
It does not excuse immorality of any sort - neither cruelty nor degeneracy.
His point on evangelism is clear: First in foremost is the Good News: Jesus is Lord. Christ is risen. He loves you and I, as imperfect as we may be, and He has made a way for your eternal salvation in His Holy and Apostolic Church - no matter who you are and what you have done.
That doesn’t mean dogma and Catechesis are optional. It doesn’t mean that the lukewarm get into Heaven. Much the opposite, to fail in fidelity to those things is to mislead others and that’s one of the worst things we can do as Christians. But that also means that we can’t let human failings like impatience, disdain, and gossip cause the teachings of the Church to fall on deaf ears. It means that we don’t quit on people or drive them out for their failings.
The teachings of Benedict XVI and Francis I emphasis two critical things that I feel have been largely lost in the Catholic culture of my native USA in the confused generations of the 70s, 80s, and 90s:
1.) It is not Charitable or Loving to lie to people about or gloss over the requirements of the faith - something we’re often guilty of doing in pursuit of making people “like” us.
2.) It is a failure of our shared duty to evangelize to just throw up our hands and ignore, ostracize, or condemn those at odds with the Church.
Both are forms of passivity (or passive-aggression) and conflict-avoidance that substitute for true Charity, but are all too common in modern society.
- Marty Lund
J
Julianna
Guest
Don’t blame the media…because Francis isn’t as conservative as some of you thiink he should be. This is a Pope who lives in the “real world” with all it’s sham and drudgery…it’s still a beautiful world. He sees the hope and is not out there beating people over tbe head with Canon law.
K
KEP1983
Guest
“Love everyone” does not equal “support every platform a liberal supports.”
For instance, do you love George Bush? What do you think of his support of the super rich? Speaking of which, do you love the super rich? Do you support them “ripping off the 99%” as MSNBC and NYT puts it?
Of course you don’t support these actions-- even though these people honestly believe they’re doing good things! I work for someone who nearly a billionaire, and he honestly believes laissez-faire capitalism helps society. He doesn’t think he’s hurting the poor at all. But yet I hear liberals pass judgment on people like him all the time and say he’s wrong wrong wrong.
So you can see that, just as you can love a rich person and not support everything they do-- even though they THINK they’re doing the right thing-- you can still love the person, but not support everything they do.
Why is there something wrong with judging people? By what standard are you saying it’s wrong to judge people? Perhaps it’s wrong to judge people from your perspective, but from my perspective not judging people is itself immoral. Who says you’re right and I’m wrong? And if I’m wrong, aren’t you judging me?
The reality is that everyone has moral standards and makes judgments. You may say that homosexuality isn’t sinful and say anyone who disagrees with you is “judgmental.” But you yourself are judging others by saying they’re wrong, too.
My brother-in-law is gay, and his boyfriend is a professor at Princeton University. He has openly stated that he wants to attack Christianity and force them to accept moral relativism.
I lived in Europe for almost a year, and the UK has already been trying to force churches to perform gay marriages. In fact, you can now even be arrested for mentioning the gospel in public in the UK. And the push came from sexual revolutionaries-- both gay marriage supporters and ‘traditional’ sex-outside-of-marriage-supporters. It’s not as simple as Christians and sexual revolutionaries living side by side and letting each other live however they want. Sexual revolutionaries want to eliminate Christian morality from society completely, while Christians say both should be allowed to exist although we disagree with each other.
The Pope can’t change Church teaching. An infallible teaching cannot be changed, even if the Pope wants to change it. Homosexual acts being intrinsically sinful is an infallible teaching.
F
Fevronia
Guest
Well said my friend. To see a convert to the Catholic faith who is not willing to compromise is very encouraging in a way I cannot describe! Thank you!
A
AdvanceAlways
Guest
So those of us who are conservative don’t also live in the real world? While you may be happy tonight, there are a lot of us out there who feel lost and borderline abandoned right now.
There is no good reason why a Papal interview should inspire headlines about the Church accepting abortion. It is inexcusable.
K
KEP1983
Guest
I was thinking about this today, and I was thinking perhaps the Church takes a stronger stand in Argentina than in the USA and western Europe? So perhaps from his Argentinian perspective the Church focuses too much on homosexuality and abortion, and not enough on salvation?
Though there is a level of truth that, in the media, the Church seems to speak “boldly” about homosexuality and abortion. All you hear in the NYT, CNN, and MSNBC is that the Catholic Church is homophobic and evil.
Yet when you go to mass you hear nothing about homosexuality or abortion. But if you look in the media, you would think Catholicism = hating gays and abortion!
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