Pope Bluntly Faults Church's Focus on Gays and Abortion

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I will tell you bluntly that homosexuality is perverted, that is turned away from that which is right or good. It is most especially contrary to the will of God.

Now you tell me where “gay” is amiable, accepting, and predisposed to believing God.
 
I think prayer, active opposition to what he is doing, prayer, active opposition, and more prayer.

And prayer.

Ishii
Your missing my point, I’m talking about the language that is used. Its not loving to tell people what they are doing is not a sin… Its not. But also the language we use can change things to…

What I’m talking about with Obama is for example a lot of the language people use towards Obama its troubling. Take aside abortion and its like ANYTHING the President does is terrible bad. And part of its politics sure but I find it troubling. I’ll never forget Michelle Obama once before the election saying “why do they hate us”…

I find it really troubling. Yes Obama’s position on abortion is trouble and I find born alive horrifying.

But I don’t know everything about him is evil. Because I now people like Obama-now maybe not as far gone as the Born Alive. For my stepmother as liberal as they come. She’s agnostic. And she’s someone who helped raise me and my brothers, and I know she tries to do good. I love her dearly and she just genuinely doesn’t believe its a baby. Geniunely doesn’t. But there are other things like the concept of war, death penalty that she has strong stands on.

She’s just deceived on this issue.

I’m sorry but the language at times that is used, its troublesome. I wonder with Obama, when we are so quick to make everything he does evil and wrong, why he’d even listen to people of the opposing view.

Let me tell you this, I have a feeling the President would be a lot more receptive with better rhetoric.

It goes on all sides of the debate to be frank.
 
In today’s age the Church’s moral teaching on homosexuality, abortion and so on can seem alienating to many,
In what way is a teaching “alienating,” unless a person assumes that being accepted demands acceptance of the behavior as well?

Despite what some other Christian sects have said and done, the Catholic Church has probably been more welcoming to homosexuals, as well as to women who have had an abortion (witness the many Church-sponsored healing opportunities for the latter) than it has been to divorced Catholics (I’m not divorced, just saying), even though divorce in itself is not a sin, whereas the other ^ behaviors are.
 
Please tell me you did not equate “gays” to perverts. One thing I know, Francis would not approve of that.

I truly believe Francis is trying to drag the RC church (with people like you kicking and screaming into the 21th century) I am also betting that many of the Cardinals who elected him are kicking themselves as well. If anyone can begin the turnaround of the Catholic Church to a place of compassion and mercy, it would have to be Francis.
Of course, implied in all this is an attitude of, “The Church, and largely everything, should be exactly what I want it to be when I want it to be it.”

We moderns seem to have everything figured out…
 
Your missing my point, I’m talking about the language that is used. Its not loving to tell people what they are doing is not a sin… Its not. But also the language we use can change things to…

What I’m talking about with Obama is for example a lot of the language people use towards Obama its troubling. Take aside abortion and its like ANYTHING the President does is terrible bad. And part of its politics sure but I find it troubling. I’ll never forget Michelle Obama once before the election saying “why do they hate us”… .
I think calling those with whom you disagree “haters” is a common tactic among the left - and Michelle Obama was obviously using that tactic. Instead of dealing with the substance of the opposition, ask “why do they hate us?” Recall as well that Michelle said she wasn’t proud of her country until Obama got elected. I don’t hate the Obamas. But I hate what they are doing to our country. He rammed Obamacare down our throat - didn’t seem to want to listen at all to the opposition there. Perhaps you should direct your comments to the left.
I find it really troubling. Yes Obama’s position on abortion is trouble and I find born alive horrifying.

But I don’t know everything about him is evil.

I’m sorry but the language at times that is used, its troublesome. I wonder with Obama, when we are so quick to make everything he does evil and wrong, why he’d even listen to people of the opposing view. .
Again, Obama didn’t listen to anyone on the healthcare issue. He desires victory - he is a leftist. His goal is the transformation of America. He doesn’t want to listen. The only reason why he’d listen would be to “appear to listen” in order to gain support and advance his agenda.
Let me tell you this, I have a feeling the President would be a lot more receptive with better rhetoric. .
I think you fundamentally don’t understand the nature of the left.

Ishii
 
Please tell me you did not equate “gays” to perverts. One thing I know, Francis would not approve of that.

I truly believe Francis is trying to drag the RC church (with people like you kicking and screaming into the 21th century) I am also betting that many of the Cardinals who elected him are kicking themselves as well. If anyone can begin the turnaround of the Catholic Church to a place of compassion and mercy, it would have to be Francis.
I do equate “gays” that is homosexuals, as perverts who behave contrary to the will of God.

Homosexuality is a behavior not a condition. It is a description of what some people do (in a perverted way) to satisfy their libido. It is entirely outside the will of God.

Am I wrong? If one does not engage in same sex libido gratification is that one a homosexual? Where is the homosexual behavior approved by God?

Liberal princess you may take your justification from somewhere of your own amiability but you certainly can’t claim it comes from God, the scriptures or is authorized by the church.
 
I will tell you bluntly that homosexuality is perverted, that is turned away from that which is right or good.
It is true that it is a perversion, but it is not right to resort to name-calling. I do not condone homosexuality at all, but was offended when you called them “perverts”.
 
My cousin and a friend contacted me tonight and both want to attend mass with me on Sunday. My cousin left the church decades ago, and my friend has never been involved in organized religion. I think the Pope has turned up the volume on God’s call and more people are hearing it. Come to Jesus!
 
I am very disappointed with Pope Francis. Every week he continues to make statements that give more ammunition to those that hate the Roman Catholic Church. He speaks with recklessness and imprecise language that leaves room for the enemies of the Church to spin his comments and distort his meaning.

But this time he is dead wrong.

There is NOTHING more important that stopping the slaughter of innocent babies. Nothing. It is a crime that cries out to Heaven for justice.

To say that we must be “balanced” and talk about more than just pro-life, contraception, traditional marriage, etc. issues to ensure the continuance of the Catholic Church is foolishness. The truth is the truth. We don’t need to water it down and restrict it for it to be accepted by those with ears to hear it. The culture of death and its perpetrators must be confronted head on.

Our Lord Jesus Christ told the truth and He didn’t mince words. I only wish Pope Francis had the courage and wisdom to follow His example.
It’s sad to see some Catholics now so choked with hate that they even attack the Pope. Very tragic and sad.
 
The word “ammo” and “ammunition” keeps coming up. Don’t give ammo to these people. Don’t give ammo to those people.

How about “Quit the violent and inflated war talk”?

The culture war is over. The ultras on both sides won. Christ lost. He lost when people starting talking about truth as gunplay.
I think you’re overreacting. We would hope that the clergy would not give ammo to the secularists. But that is what happened - ammo was given to them so now they can run and say, “the Pope is now deemphasizing abortion and gays.” It will be interpreted wrongly. Ammo is totally an appropriate word to use. And war is also a good word to use in terms of the war between the forces of sin and evil and the forces of good. The Church has spoken of “spiritual warfare” for years. And sacramentals as “ammo” against the devil and temptation - such as holy water, scapulars, rosary, holy cards, etc. I think you need to get over your it.

Ishii
 
Today, the aim of “Snakebite” was to cause the faithful to lose confidence in the Vicar of Christ through deceit. He caused them to believe that the Holy Father said something that he didn’t say. In fact, there is no evidence whatsoever that he said what the headline reported him as saying .

There is more evidence to show that the Pope did not say that the Church emphasizes certain issues too much, than evidence to the contrary.

Evidence for Snakebite’s position:
1. a headline

Evidence for media twist on the Pope’s words:
1. What the Pope actually said, as is written in a number of
articles.
Code:
                                     2. What the Pope did not say. (Search all you want,
                                         he never faulted the Church as the headline for this
                                         thread suggested.
 
…As I said, I pity and pray for the young faithful Catholic being ridiculed at his or her university today, with the NY Times’ reports thrown back in their face. They must feel utterly deserted by their chief pastor, who wanted instead the applause and plaudits of the liberal media.
I think todays Uni-age catholics are better equipped to defend the faith than their apathetic parents who never really knew what a serious attack on their spirituality felt like.

Did the parents of these young people ever see any apologetics debates like Frank Turek or Dinesh D’Souza at Notre Dame?
See how the ‘‘Ratio Christi’’ generation enthusiastically show how it’s done by REAL free thinkers.
 
There is NOTHING more important that stopping the slaughter of innocent babies. Nothing. It is a crime that cries out to Heaven for justice.

To say that we must be “balanced” and talk about more than just pro-life, contraception, traditional marriage, etc. issues to ensure the continuance of the Catholic Church is foolishness…
Just for the record, the Church teaches that the The 4 Sins that Cry Out to Heaven include

Willful murder
The sin of Sodom
Oppression of the poor
Defrauding laborers of their wages


To single out two of the four is not Catholic teaching. The pope is speaking exactly what Catholics need to hear…
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img819.imageshack.us/img819/4604/58e4.jpg
 
Evidence for media twist on the Pope’s words:
1. What the Pope actually said, as is written in a number of
articles.
Code:
                                     2. What the Pope did not say. (Search all you want,
                                         he never faulted the Church as the headline for this
                                         thread suggested.
👍
 
From NARAL facebook, and I quote:

It’s unfortunate that other people twist, but twist they will when they perceive an opportunity.
😦
It is unfortunate.
We can compare how Pope Benedict reacted when his words were twisted by Islamists activists, and the enraged Muslim street killed at least one nun in reaction against Benedict’s erudite words.
He immediately issued a horrified apology for being so misunderstood, and never spoke against on anything to do with the Religion of Peace.

This twisting of Frances’ words seems to be happening quite regularly.
 
In what way is a teaching “alienating,” unless a person assumes that being accepted demands acceptance of the behavior as well?
You are missing my point. I said “can seem alienating.” That is, that is how some perceive it. Just read what Pope Francis said about homosexuals who wrote to him. In today’s culture if one is not accepting of such behaviors it is indeed seen as hostile. That such a misunderstanding of Catholic teaching is indeed a misunderstanding doesn’t mean those who misunderstand suddenly get it. To reach such people the power of God’s love for them must be emphasized: that is what Pope Francis seems to be saying as I read it.
 
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