Pope Bluntly Faults Church's Focus on Gays and Abortion

[Veridical16]

My emotions have been back and forth today after reading the Pope’s words. I can’t decide what I think, and I think probably I’m not alone.

. . . .

Don’t worry Mike, I used to be one of those secular minded young persons who when I was 19 (raised in Catholic schools, CCD classes) and I STILL thought I could pick and choose what I wanted to believe and believed abortion, marriage, and contraception were just “one of many” Church teachings that could be relegated to being ignored. Only through providence did I encounter the truth ( to use the holy father’s words) through faithful people, and was strengthened and affirmed into knowing my errors, and it came from those faithful apostolates, lay people and priests who did not shy away from touching the hot button issues . Now the Pope may be erring personally in his dealing with the press and the statements he is making by being vague, but because of the very fact that I have come to the Orthodoxy of the faith, and am unfortunately as a lay person seeing the suggestion from these headlines about the Pope as well as his answers themselves --I’m more convinced that because it would be easier to have continued as a lukewarm Catholic , because a lukewarm Catholic has no worldly enemies, that Christ did find me and save me from going along with the dictatorship of relativism.

Still, I must be honest as a Catholic, it is probably due to weakness on my part. I am wondering if I haven’t prayed and reflected enough that has made me vulnerable to be "scandalized " by Pope Francis’ statements? To ask is probably a signal for me to do so. It must be a reminder for we Catholics – we who seek Christ, who are troubled – to reflect more as Jesus has walked amongst fallen men and loved them .want to cleave more to Jesus and ask for his mercy and strength for Pope Francis.

There are two sides always whispering about the office of Peter – there are those in the Church and outside (the press a visible representative) who like to subvert the authority of the papacy. Those on the inside try to cast doubt by comparing the shepherds who were sterner to a certain group of sheep or less stern what have you, they think they’re defending Jesus’ Church by trying to say Christ failed to build on Peter. Those on the outside create a false notion of the papacy, by saying look how he approached this wrongly in political speak? – they are BOTH wrong because they ultimately base their premise as stating "the pope is expected to be immaculate " , when it is times like these when we should reflect on the bad popes, the judases as you mentioned Alexander, to the popes who simply made mistakes, or were deficient in dealing with certain issues, all the way to Peter.

Then concerning the ones who desire to persevere much, we desirous faithful Catholics who feel closer to the Truth, in our own eyes, and therefore more susceptible to pride gawk at Peter sinking in the water when the Church has its storms – and then we complain about Peter sinking or “appearing to sink” , rather than keeping our eyes on Jesus always ready to grab him.

Or sometimes on the flip side, some of us faithful Catholic watching from afar on the boat try to pretend and spin that Peter wasn’t really “sinking” he was intentionally crawling to Jesus and had no need of casting his eyes back onto Jesus as the rock – in some sort of overly optimistic denial, due to fear. Our faith is not about the personal holiness or preference of this man, or the next man, but in the office that was sent from the true Man, true God and true rock. Just as Jesus, makes us honor the authority of our fathers and mothers, and we know when they’ve erred, we give the same unyielding filial love to our pope, because we know truth of temporal authority is self-evident from our parents, therefore the temporal authority of the Church really is necessary for us when established by Christ himself, when he called us to be children and sheep to be shepherded and fed, sacramentally .

In a very tactful way we can be realists about these public interviews, without becoming dishonest mouthpieces. While still knowing our place as laypeople, (as St. Catherine has shown us.)

Even if the Pope were Satan incarnate, we ought not to raise up our heads against him, but calmly lie down to rest on his bosom. He who rebels against our Father is condemned to death, for that which we do to him we do to Christ: we honor Christ if we honor the Pope; we dishonor Christ if we dishonor the Pope. I know very well that many defend themselves by boasting: “They are so corrupt, and work all manner of evil!” But God has commanded that, even if the priests, the pastors, and Christ-on-earth were incarnate devils, we be obedient and subject to them, not for their sakes, but for the sake of God, and out of obedience to Him.

• St. Catherine of Siena

Good luck on your travels in RCIA, Mike stay close to the blessed mother, I know she’s helped to prevent me from being anxious when the Pope makes statements such as these.

There are some things I realize from Pope Francis, where I have erred in “approach” where we have been inclined to treating the Truth as if it We found it – as if it were something to place in a personal Art Museum of my keeping, rather than fuel to be burned in a lamp outside – at the same time I also recognize that Satan roams the Earth, and we really can’t get caught up in the cult of personality of the Pope.

 

[agnes_therese]

As far as I can tell externally and temporally I believe he is a weaker pope and God has allowed it.

Then you are not understanding what he is saying.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Sounds more like INCOMPETENT damage control.

This statement is worse than what Pope Francis’ ever said in his interview.

---

“A people that kills its own children is without a future****].”
John Paul II
That is not an obsessive creepy statement.

If a people have to be reminded infinity times so be it. I do not understand what the Pope said in his interview and avoids saying things on more than one occasion.

Growing up in my local parish I never heard enough about the hot button issues from the Church herself throught the parish or catholic families other than later finding out that John Paul II constantly preached this simply. When I was young I heard what the world said, and cafeteria catholics - that’s why I believed abortion was okay to just personally disagree with…thats why i could not care less about gay marriage when it first began as a political issue.
How in the HECK has the Church been “policing sex” when it focuses on saying church teaching in countries that subsidize condom purchases?? How is it policed?
Wasn’t the problem the world tells us, was that we have not done Enough to police our own house of its scandals?

I can only look to the Holy Spirit for guidance as it has done so for holy mother church,

• St. Robert Bellarmine

Pope Francis did not say about ‘policing sex,’ the article did, and I shouldn’t have posted that article

 

[Matthew_Jav]

Hello all. This is my first post. I was wanting to know where online I could find the ACTUAL TRANSCRIPT of Pope Francis’ interview?

Thanks for your help

Matt

 

[BigBlueCane]

Yeah thats rich. Quoting a foxnews article opinion and indicating thats truth but the nytimes quoting the Pope isn’t. Got it.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Pope Francis spoke to Federation of Catholic Medical Associations today

@CatholicNewsSvc 3m
#PopeFrancis to gynecologists: every unborn child who is unjustly condemned to be aborted has face of Jesus. The elderly, too.

twitter.com/CatholicNewsSvc/status/381008111059742720

Paradox today, pope says, is ppl are assuming new rights while no one safeguards most important right of all: everyone’s right to life

twitter.com/CatholicNewsSvc/status/381008574299643904

Pope: things have a price, can be sold, but not people, they are priceless. Protecting life is “a true & actual priority of magisterium”

twitter.com/CatholicNewsSvc/status/381009197854232576

Pope: protecting all life isn’t a matter of faith, but is rooted in reason, science. No life is more sacred, more important than another

twitter.com/CatholicNewsSvc/status/381009978632310784

 

[_Abyssinia]

Pope: Spread the Gospel of life

(Vatican Radio) Pope Francis on Friday received members of the International Federation of Catholic Medical Associations who are in Rome on the occasion of their 10th International Conference on Catholicism and Maternal Healthcare. Lydia O’Kane reports

Following a greeting to conference participants, Pope Francis went on to address those gathered in three succinct points.

Firstly, he described what he called the paradoxical situation facing the medical profession today. On the one hand, the Pope said we see the progress of medicine, and those dedicated to the search for new cures.

But, on the other hand, he noted, there is the danger that a doctor might lose his identity as a servant of life. Pope Francis explained, that “if you lose the personal and social sensitivity towards the acceptance of a new life, then other forms of acceptance that are valuable for society also wither away.” He continued by saying that the acceptance of life strengthens moral fiber, before adding that the final objective of the doctor is always the defense and promotion of life.

In his second point, the Holy Father underlined that "the first right of the human person is his life”. He spoke of a “culture of waste”, which he said, now enslaves the hearts and minds of many. The cost of this, he continued, is the elimination of human beings, especially if they are physically or socially weaker. The Pope stressed that every child that is not born, but unjustly condemned to be aborted and very elderly person who is sick or at the end of his life bears the face of Christ.

The Pope also underlined the important role Gynecologists have which requires study, a conscience and humanity.

In his third and final point the Holy Father said the mandate of Catholic doctors is “to be witnesses and promoters of the “culture of life”. The Lord, he said is counting on you to spread the “Gospel of life.”

Pope Francis concluded his remarks by saying, “there is no human life more sacred than another, as there is no human life more significant than another. The credibility of a health care system is measured not only for its efficiency, but also for the attention and love towards people, whose life is always sacred.

 

[Veridical16]

Then you are not understanding what he is saying.

tbh,
I really do not understand what he says in the specific interviews because he could be speaking from a series of perspectives given the audiences. It’s too open for interpretation because i he speaking aware he’s talking to the seculars? while knowing the Catholics are listening too? or is he assuming disposition to repentance? Seems like he is only coming from a very local experience and assumption from Argentine lay faithful? and the reaction from us Catholics on the ground are of that which are mired and all too familiar with the very unfaithful people in our personal lives – not only to Church teaching! like the single mothers he helps to confess in his experience – but to Natural law itself !
Perhaps in the last 7 years, the Pope is unaware how rapidly Americanized culture has exponentially decayed (as opposed to those in South America and Italy where there’s an artificial “gay marriage” because of America in other countries ) which has made it even more difficult to say things so freely as he does and get the same response and understanding about the mercy of God. I do not know what if comes from His South American Jesuit Formation??? I know Pope Benedict though he was a theologian and was less accessible, he still didn’t have this frequent media problem.
And JPII was deep in philosophy also. Jesuit Pope is the first, so that must be something to it. I do not know how people can read or attempt to find “good” from this initial press interaction. It’s like when Blessed JPII kissed the koran. We know it wasn’t necessary, and no need to call it a good act. Just say, the pope can err personally at times.

Perhaps it’s because in the West, and Bergoglio was not much interested in American affairs, it’s like amongst the Jews in Jesus day , there was no question about God the father they were on the same page there. Maybe the Pope is still disconnected from the fact that though in South America , the Church goers sinned, but still culturally sought to stay close and confess their sins, like the single mothers, whereas in America, it’s not like that. There is no church life even on the minds of the homosexuals and single mothers here.

Pope Francis did not say about ‘policing sex,’ the article did, and I shouldn’t have posted that article

I know he didn’t. That’s why I said, it’s worse than whatever was said in the original interview , by the supposed “Catholic Officials” from Fargo and the other county. I don’t even know what that means? Local priests?? Admistrators? Knights of Columbus??

 

[agnes_therese]

I really do not understand what he says in the interviews. It’s too open for interpretation.

Live the Gospel first, that’s what he’s saying. All else will follow. If we draw people to Christ, their hearts will be changed – that’s what the Church and the saints have taught for centuries. I really don’t understand why this is suddenly so controversial.

 

[nan]

The pope’s statement is even worse than the old “seamless garment” canard. I am very discouraged. What good leader publicly stabs his own followers in the back? I also take issue with the statements on this forum implying that women who go to crisis pregnancy centers are treated like particularly bad sinners as we are all sinners. All I’ve ever witnessed is compassion and understanding. The current pope is obviously a good holy man but YIKES!

 

[LittleFlower378]

So…is Fox News saying The NYTimes * misquoted* the Pope?

You just accused The NYTimes of being dishonest and making news up, I think…

Did they?

Or is Fox News just scolding the paper for reporting on what he said about not focusing on homosexuality, etc…and putting that high in the story?

Because if the Pope gave a 10,000 word interview and the paper has space to write an article of approx 1000 words….of course, they are going pick out the parts that stand out.
That’s just how news works. You can’t include everything. And as journalists, we are taught to highlight anything that sounds refreshing or unique…what would catch their reader’s attention.
You have to write for your audience, that’s the first rule of journalism.
If the New York Times reporter was writing for, say, The Catholic Ledger or something…he/she may have chosen a different lede.
But for NYTimes readers, the writer pulled out exactly what would interest them.

If they misquoted the Pope or twisted his words, that’s a whole other matter.

But this article is not saying that, correct?
(do correct me if I’m wrong…because the article was so badly written, I could not get thru the whole thing)

They just don’t like what parts of the interview the newspaper chose to include in their story, I think.
I don’t understand why. What the Pope said was fantastic. He said nothing wrong. And the newspaper did nothing wrong.

Just because a newspaper doesn’t write the story the way some people want it to be written, does not mean they are dishonest or making news up.

.

I think the Pope was talking TO the newspaper… they are the ones obsessing over the sexual sins to promote their own agenda…they are messing with us Catholics and we are constantly trying to defend it. Also, it may not be in this article but other articles have misled people as well. How comw in 10000 words where the pop uses ‘mother church’ and discusses so many other topics, all news agencies pull out are the sexual sins?

 

[Simon62]

Here you go:
americamagazine.org/pope-interview
Happy reading.

 

[CatholicFireman]

Hate, shmate.

I saw no “hate”. Yes, it is unfortunate that some are so quick to believe the worst and not consider the fact that there might be some kind of mistake, but “hate” it is not. What an extreme way to interpret things.

Certain verbage gives trolling activists away almost immediately. Not to mention just joining CAF just a few hours ago. Just in time.

Wow, you beat me to it.

 

[Gricken]

all he seems to be saying is that the message of god’s love must be proclaimed first and foremost. In today’s age the church’s moral teaching on homosexuality, abortion and so on can seem alienating to many, as he relates with the case of a woman who has had an abortion, or the homosexuals who wrote to him in buenos aires. If you communicate first and foremost that god has come to not just judge but to redeem and save, you have a greater chance of winning people to the church no matter what they’ve done. He says nothing about those teachings being invalid. There’s no liberal position here. That’s my interpretation.

thank you

 

[CatholicFireman]

This whole thing reminds me of when Vatican II came out and folks misinterpreted that (and I’m not going to get into that debate :banghead Cooler heads need to prevail and read the original text. Pope Benedict said the same thing a while back but with such grander verbiage that it went unnoticed (a nicer way of saying “over our heads”). As soon as I find it again I’ll post it.

 

[gracepoole]

Oh he could be direct as well. Remember when he drove the money changers from the temple? Didn’t use parables for that.

Ishii

I was wondering when the moneychangers would be yanked into the conversation! It’s the Catholic equivalent of Godwin’s Law around here. I don’t see how it’s a relevant example regarding this conversation?

I’m starting RCIA in two weeks. I want to feel the same fire, but if I said I did, I’d be lying. One of the things that attracted me to the Catholic Church was that we could trust the Chair of Peter to teach the truth (I understand this wasn’t an infallible statement but nevertheless its hard to understand all that is going on).

First, welcome! Second, we *can *trust the Chair of Peter to teach the truth – absolutely nothing about the pope’s comments indicates otherwise. Unless, of course, we only want a portion of the truth to be highlighted.

Let us not forget that if the Catholic church is seen to fold on abortion, gay marriage etc, then it becomes that much harder for small orthodox Protestant churches to also hold the line.

The whole interview is a disaster. If the Catholic Church does not “obsess” over abortion and gay marriage, then who does??? And what does it say to all the pro-lifers and traditional marriage people that they have been called “small minded” by the Pope??? Talk about abandoning your own people to appease your enemies.

Shambolic. Something JPII and Benedict XVI would never have done. Ever.

He is not John Paul II or Benedict – he is Francis, and he was called to be pope by the Holy Spirit, just as his predecessors were. I’ve stated this before in this thread but it bears repeating: I cannot fathom how folks feel abandoned by our Holy Father because of this interview. I guess I need clarification.

LiberalPrincess,

Please do not call yourself a Catholic, you are not Catholic!

KNK

You’re relatively new here so I’m going to gently remind you that focusing on one another and not the thread’s subject is verboten around here. None of us has the gifts necessary to judge another’s Catholicity.

The pope’s statement is even worse than the old “seamless garment” canard. I am very discouraged. What good leader publicly stabs his own followers in the back? I also take issue with the statements on this forum implying that women who go to crisis pregnancy centers are treated like particularly bad sinners as we are all sinners. All I’ve ever witnessed is compassion and understanding. The current pope is obviously a good holy man but YIKES!

Again: How has he stabbed his own followers in the back?

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

I agree you must believe in the Truth before you can accept there is sin. But, as others have said, I’m skeptical that the world will see what the Pope is talking about.

As Jesus said: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: “‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving." --Matthew 13:13-14

I came to the Catholic faith very much a pagan millennial last December. I was searching for truth. I met a wonderful orthodox young priest who told me that the Church was like Noah’s Ark for lost souls afloat. I’ve been on fire to learn more about the Catholic faith ever since.

And the fire that was consuming you was the Church’s teaching on contraception, abortion and homosexual activity? The pope has reasserted the Church’s teachings on these issues. His point is that we should be on fire for living the Gospel of Jesus Christ, not reducing the Catholic Faith to merely condemning 3 sins.

I saw a self described “traditional” priest post on Father Z.’s blog today that he feels left out to dry. I just feel in my heart that these wonderful people I’ve met must also feel the same (I can tell my prolife professor probably does by his tweets).

Left out to dry by the media or by the pope? The issue is not what the pope said, but what sensational headlines are extricating from an interview conducted over 3 days. The Catechism is is very clear about its teachings, but abortion, contraception and homosexual acts encompass a few paragraphs in a very fat book. Prior to being pope and as Bishop in Argentina, he was very public on his stance against same-sex marriage, describing it as the work of the devil and a “destructive attack on God’s plan”, and that gay adoption is a form of discrimination against children. But the world doesn’t make big headlines out of that. --Just wait, the pope will be addressing these issues again in his homilies, not edited interviews, and you will see how the media buries it or ignores it.

I completely understand what the Holy Father is trying to accomplish. Based upon what the world teaches today, I agree you must believe in the Truth before you can accept there is sin. But, as others have said, I’m skeptical that the world will see what the Pope is talking about.

Don’t worry about the world. Seek the truth and live it, realizing that the world will always hate you for it. Jesus was always being misquoted by his adversaries. “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also." --John 15:18-20

I’m starting RCIA in two weeks. I want to feel the same fire, but if I said I did, I’d be lying. One of the things that attracted me to the Catholic Church was that we could trust the Chair of Peter to teach the truth (I understand this wasn’t an infallible statement but nevertheless its hard to understand all that is going on).

Ok now this takes the cake. Again, the pope didn’t say anything against Church teaching. Homosexual acts, abortion and contraception are still sins. The pope’s point is that our Catholic Faith should not be reduced to merely condemning these three sins. Yes they are sins, but when the people were ready to stone the woman found in adultery, Christ reached out to her and saved her from being stoned to death.

Perhaps God is trying to help me see the true message of the Church and the Gospel better through Pope Francis.

Exactly! We are called to be saints and to grow in holiness for for the purpose of reflecting God’s Goodness, Truth, Love, and Beauty uniquely in the world through your life, within your unique circumstances among the people you meet. Don’t let a few headlines rattle your love for Christ and the teachings of His Church. This pope is a gift to the Church.

That thought has crossed my mind a lot today. Have I been a Pharisee?

Here’s a good test to see if you have been a pharisee or not.

 

[DeniseNY]

thank you

Yes, I agree.

 

[CatholicFireman]

This whole thing reminds me of when Vatican II came out and folks misinterpreted that (and I’m not going to get into that debate :banghead Cooler heads need to prevail and read the original text. Pope Benedict said the same thing a while back but with such grander verbiage that it went unnoticed (a nicer way of saying “over our heads”). As soon as I find it again I’ll post it.

catholicvote.org/old-good-news/

 

[JamesCollins]

The only fear I have is that liberal Catholics will take this as a sign that being for pro gay marriage rights and for legal abortion is not really that bad as long as they wouldn’t do those things themselves. They might use the Pope’s words as an excuse for their own unwillingness to defend traditional marriage and the unborn.