Pope Bluntly Faults Church's Focus on Gays and Abortion

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Lormar said:
I’ve lived in several dioceses and hear only generic homilies.
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i Agree, I have to find Churches in the diocese where there is otherwise It’s just above – sad to say, a protestant type homily , what one would feel about how scripture applies to our daily lives.
Not much zeal, just feel good, happy lives to live in our contentedness, sentiments that lasts about 15 minutes as the homily finishes up .
 
There’s a whole thread dedicated to this, but it is frustrating that Pope Benedict did speak a lot about compassion and forgiveness, and the media never reported a bit of it. The two Holy Fathers are really not that different.
 
I am not an expert in the least, but only knowing the Jesuits, I have heard a great many homilies on priests describing a less than Christ attitude they have had at anytime. After all they are still human beings.They did this to teach us all that we need to work everyday to try to be a better Catholic. Just because they have a collar on their neck doesn’t mean they don’t get frustrated or annoyed with everyday life. We need to remember that every human being has their limits, their weaknesses, and their struggles. We may not understand their situation but God does and He knows when they are truly sorry for their sins.
 
einna said:
No, as I said before we were always reminded we were all sinners, we just didn’t hear condemnation, right or wrong. Our priest included themselves as a part of the sinners, which helped, but it made us no less sinners.I think any homily could start with the words “we are sinners” and this is what we must do to repent.
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So your problem is that the priest seems like a sinner and therefore you feel offended if he doesn’t mention it? 😊

Why does it matter that it is made clear we are all sinners? What if we are much greater sinners than any one else? Shouldn’t we approach the sacrament as if we are the one with the greatest sin?

What would have happened if Peter went down on his knees and said “Lord, I denied you three times but its nothing compared to what Judas did”.
 
panevino said:
This article is sort of relevant

m.theage.com.au/victoria/church-dumps-rebel-priest-20130920-2u5jp.html

“…Dissident priest Greg Reynolds has been both defrocked and excommunicated over his support for women priests and gays - the first person ever excommunicated in Melbourne, he believes.
The order comes direct from the Vatican, not at the request of Melbourne Archbishop Denis Hart, and apparently follows a secret denunciation in the best traditions of the inquisition, according to Father Reynolds.
The excommunication document - written in Latin and giving no reason - was dated May 31, meaning it comes under the authority of Pope Francis who made headlines on Thursday calling for a less rule-obsessed church…
…Father Reynolds, who resigned as a parish priest in 2011 and last year founded Inclusive Catholics, said he had expected to be laicised (defrocked), but not excommunicated. But it would make no difference to his ministry…”
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Of course, the Pope has authority over governance of the Church , and magisterial teaching.
This will always go on either in full dedication, or ithe other. I think the real issue is the inclination to build up a false notion about the Papacy and its relation to the body of Christ.

I think by honest mistake , and our own ignorance, laity are to blame for it, because we got lazy on how we are to view the pope and what his papal infallibility means.

Instead, it is our fault, that some protestants are deterred from believing the purpose of the office of the holy fathers, and how Catholics have an abused viewpoint on what the Pope does in his office, and his humanness.

The traditionalists fall into it more where they focus on the pope as if he can’t be guilty of ignorance at times.

There are those who say the Church will never undergo trials or suffering, which is no different than failing to understand the suffering of Jesus Christ on Earth, and I also think it prevents people from understanding the Vicar of Christ, and how to reconcile how he represents the human element of the Church, to witness to the divine, even in his times of error or weak leadership.

The history between Pope Liberius and St. Athanasius is an example of this
Though Pope Liberius did condemn St. Athanasius under heavy pressure from his captors, he refused to sign a clearly Arian statement of faith, but did sign an equivocal statement which could be interpreted either in an orthodox or an Arian sense.
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The infallibility of the papacy was therefore preserved even under Liberius’ weak leadership. But Popes are not infallible when making excommunications, or any disciplinary judgment, for they are limited by the information they have on the individual or situation in question. They are only infallible in making doctrinal pronouncements ex cathedra.** It is vitally important always to remember that the Pope has two kinds of authority, magisterial (when he is speaking ex cathedra, that is, in a way intended to be binding on the faithful), in which he is infallible; and administrative, as head of the Church appointed by Christ to govern it (which would include excommunications).
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The Pope is not infallible when exercising his governing authority, but still must be obeyed when he does so**, as long as his orders apply clearly to the Church rather than to temporal affairs
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That’s why I believe the evidence of this 60 page thread shows a lack of understanding of the papacy. All it does is confuse Protestants.

It’s also shameful that some Catholics act like pro-lifers who were upset yesterday about the pro life statement, were just overreacting to the press or imagining things.
 
livingwordunity said:
Same here. With the exception of EWTN, homilies about abortion or homosexuals are so rare that in the 20 years that I’ve been a Catholic the only time I can remember a homily that was about a political issue involving these was with the Fortnight for Freedom. And the Fortnight for Freedom was defensive in response to the unprecedented government threat to religious liberty. The “gay lobby” are the aggressors in this while Catholic Church has been in a defensive position trying to fend off attacks to our faith, marriage, and babies in the womb.
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Amen. I live in very liberal Seattle and listen to some pretty ear curling liberal homilies re tolerance for all and how Jesus didn’t really concern himself with “moral sin.” (I am not making this up.) Am bracing for this Sunday…
 
Veridical16 said:
That’s why I believe the evidence of this 60 page thread shows a lack of understanding of the papacy. All it does is confuse Protestants.

It’s also shameful that some Catholics act like pro-lifers who were upset yesterday about the pro life statement, were just overreacting to the press or imagining things.
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Well lets be a bit fair. The Pope did say that anti-Abortion, gay marriage, contraception stuff be toned down i.e. balanced out.

So from the perspective of a person who had been giving a lot to try and create progress on these issues, that can be very discouraging. I think most Catholics also understand that the Pope didn’t “teach” but they also feel like the head of the Church may not be on their side anymore because he feels there are other better things to worry about. That can be disappointing.

I think the honest fact here is that Pope Francis, and nor will anyone for that matter, master interviews by journalists. Celebrities botch them and our Holy Father is no different. He revealed too much of his private pondering (things he may never even carry out) and the journalists happily reported it. Lot of people got upset.

The chances are, I am sure, if Pope Francis had a do-over, he will not repeat the same things. His statement today on Abortion were probably done to ratify the mistake in the interview as well.

I think everyone has great ideas at times and not-so-great ideas when they are pondering things. We ourselves discard many of them when it is the time to act. When we speak of those, we run the risk of saying things we wouldn’t even do or hadn’t even thought about what the impact would be. Somethings may work better in practice but not as words.

In this case, if Pope Francis had simply followed his balanced approach himself, this will not have happened. But by saying it out aloud, it changes things.
 
I couldn’t believe how twisted that news story was this morning. As soon as I heard it,I knew that the media was reporting our Pope’s words out of context.
 
AdvanceAlways said:
Sheesh, did the AP even read the interview?
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The AP actually misquoted the Vicar of Christ ,the bolded below is the actual quote and then Pope Francis contined continued with the real substance and truth of what he ,meant and was teaching us.
We have to find a new balance; otherwise even the moral edifice of the church is likely to fall like a house of cards, losing the freshness and fragrance of the Gospel. The proposal of the Gospel must be more simple, profound, radiant. It is from this proposition that the moral consequences then flow.
“I say this also thinking about the preaching and content of our preaching. A beautiful homily, a genuine sermon must begin with the first proclamation, with the proclamation of salvation.
There is nothing more solid, deep and sure than this proclamation. Then you have to do catechesis. Then you can draw even a moral consequence. But the proclamation of the saving love of God comes before moral and religious imperatives.
Peace, Carlan
 
Carlan said:
The AP actually misquoted the Vicar of Christ ,the bolded below is the actual quote and then Pope Francis contined continued with the real substance and truth of what he ,meant and was teaching us.
We have to find a new balance; otherwise even the moral edifice of the church is likely to fall like a house of cards, losing the freshness and fragrance of the Gospel. The proposal of the Gospel must be more simple, profound, radiant. It is from this proposition that the moral consequences then flow.
“I say this also thinking about the preaching and content of our preaching. A beautiful homily, a genuine sermon must begin with the first proclamation, with the proclamation of salvation.
There is nothing more solid, deep and sure than this proclamation. Then you have to do catechesis. Then you can draw even a moral consequence. But the proclamation of the saving love of God comes before moral and religious imperatives.
Peace, Carlan
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P.S.The Father 's gift to us is free will , to say yes to His salvation and goodness or to reject it, it is up to us, then the process of holiness begins and it takes a lifetime. Peace, Carlan
 
McCall1981 said:
This is exactly what I thought too, but I am VERY glad to see that the strong comments the Pope made today on abortion are getting A LOT of press; much, much more than I would have thought. The story has appeard on HuffPO, Wash Times, Yahoo, CBS, Fox, Reddit, NPR, AP, etc, and of course all of the Catholic media.

The more this story gets out there, it will go a long way towards undoing some of the damage from yesterday because it forces people to see that the teachings don’t change and that we need to keep talking about the moral issues. It undercuts the media’s false story entirely.
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Borrowing from Fr. Z here, but this gets my gold star for post of the day.
 
gracepoole said:
:confused: I voted (no, for the record) but I don’t see the NYT piece as a scandalous or “reprehensible” representation of the pope’s comments.
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You don’t find it scandalous that the NYT implied that the Pope thinks abortion and gay marriage are perfectly fine?
 
On the topic of Pope Francis and the “**he said she said **” discussion, is/are there any bona fide contacts, whether it be Angel, newspaper or carrier pigeon that can be trusted to interpret the Popes words ?
 
Jesus told the woman taken in adultery to go away and " SIN NO MORE" it seems every-time Pope Francis is asked a question he gets involved in a discussion, not of his own making, but which the demon’s have set before him ! The lightening bolt that hit the Vatican makes me wonder.
 
Slaney said:
Jesus told the woman taken in adultery to go away and " SIN NO MORE" it seems every-time Pope Francis is asked a question he gets involved in a discussion, not of his own making, but which the demon’s have set before him ! The lightening bolt that hit the Vatican makes me wonder.
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Which is why we must storm heaven with our prayers for our Holy Father.
 
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