Pope calls for action on climate change

[Monty_Arch]

They are consuming fuel that is non renewable.

Which fuel?

 

[ecce_ego]

I think we should all go to our parishes a light a candle for His Holiness’ intention.

The intentions of American catholics and the Pope’s intentions are NOT the same. They have not been for a long, long time.

 

[rlg94086]

The intentions of American catholics and the Pope’s intentions are NOT the same. They have not been for a long, long time.

I’m pretty certain that Brendan’s post was humor. Imagine the CO2 output of a billion candles lit for the Holy Father’s intention?

…I could be wrong though…

 

[JReducation]

I’m pretty certain that Brendan’s post was humor. Imagine the CO2 output of a billion candles lit for the Holy Father’s intention?

…I could be wrong though…

Since I’m a undergaduate major in math and a graduate major in Mystical Theology, I have no idea what you’re talking about. LOL Do candles actually give off carbon dioxide?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[rlg94086]

Since I’m a undergaduate major in math and a graduate major in Mystical Theology, I have no idea what you’re talking about. LOL Do candles actually give off carbon dioxide?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

…um…I think so. I know they give off some sort of harmful greenhouse gas since the flames are burning fuel…googling…yes, carbon dioxide.

I didn’t finish my degree, but I was originally a Math/Philosophy double major…pretty close, except my interest in philosophy was more on the logic side of things.

 

[Shin]

…um…I think so. I know they give off some sort of harmful greenhouse gas since the flames are burning fuel…googling…yes, carbon dioxide.

I didn’t finish my degree, but I was originally a Math/Philosophy double major…pretty close, except my interest in philosophy was more on the logic side of things.

Also in the news lately: Pets put out more CO2 than SUVs.

I am eagerly awaiting PETA, Greenpeace, the U.N., and the President placing restrictions on pet ownership and encouraging everyone to put down their pets for the sake of the planet.

Well… it’s not just pets if you realize suddenly that…

All those animals… To save the planet!

 

[JReducation]

Also in the news lately: Pets put out more CO2 than SUVs.

I am eagerly awaiting PETA, Greenpeace, the U.N., and the President placing restrictions on pet ownership and encouraging everyone to put down their pets for the sake of the planet.

Well… it’s not just pets if you realize suddenly that…

All those animals… To save the planet!

I can see pets giving off carbon dioxide since most pets are mammals. But I am surprised about candles. I thought you had to breathe to give off carborn dioxide. SUVs can’t give off carbon dioxide. They give off carbron monoxide, don’t they?

OK, I’m going back to high school. On second thought, I can save the planet without going through that torture again.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[JReducation]

…um…I think so. I know they give off some sort of harmful greenhouse gas since the flames are burning fuel…googling…yes, carbon dioxide.

I didn’t finish my degree, but I was originally a Math/Philosophy double major…pretty close, except my interest in philosophy was more on the logic side of things.

I did a minor in philosophy. Just enough to get me into theology (18 crs). I did like logic and metaphysics. I hated the classics, Phil 101 and 102 back then. BORRRRRRRRRRRRRING.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[miguel]

I can see pets giving off carbon dioxide since most pets are mammals. But I am surprised about candles. I thought you had to breathe to give off carborn dioxide. SUVs can’t give off carbon dioxide. They give off carbron monoxide, don’t they?

OK, I’m going back to high school. On second thought, I can save the planet without going through that torture again.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

No JR. You need to know some basic chemistry to save the planet (or at least so that no one can pull the wool over your eyes). I don’t know the chemical formula for wax, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it is some form of hydrocarbon molecule.

There is alot of misunderstanding about what comes out of exhaust pipes. I gave this response to another poster awhile back:

Carbon monoxide (CO) is present in car exhaust because of incomplete combustion. It is present in minute amounts compared to CO2. The main products of combustion from any hydrocarbon fuel (CXHY) are CO2 and H2O (water vapor). Oxygen from the air reacts with the carbon in the fuel to form CO2. It also reacts with the hydrogen in the fuel to form water vapor H2O. For gasoline (C8H18) exhaust, CO2 is 19% by weight, H2O is 9%, and N2 is 72%. Other things are present, like CO, but they are there in very small percentages compared to the main products of combustion. Note that nitrogen is there in such a large percentage because air is 79% nitrogen. Nitrogen does react slightly with the other elements that are present during combustion but most of it doesn’t react. It just goes along for the ride. It goes into the engine and has to come out the exhaust. I discuss how to determine these percentages in an earlier post (I’m an engineer BTW.)

I gave the simple form of the chemical reaction and how to calculate these percentages in a couple posts here:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=5485719#post5485719

 

[love2learn]

The reason that Americans have larger cars is due to larger families. One unintended consequence of a country going greev and squeezing one’s personal space to a minimal footprint is to squeeze the possibility of children out of your life.

To the point that this is a moral question then, the greater morality is with those who do not follow the global warming agenda. One must leave oneself open to the possibility of new life, and the green agenda has no room for such possibility. The green agenda in fact poses such behavior, and the technology that allows such behavior, as being immoral. When SUV’s are posited as immoral, as has been done here, then so to must the children which rely on SUV’s to transport them to the soccer games and dance practices be immoral.

You make a good point which I will amplify by saying that the environmental movement is misanthropic at its core and it is waging a war against humanity. When global warming proponents tell us that carbon dioxide–the trace gas that is exhaled by man who is created in the image of God, the gas that is food for plants and therefore all life–is also a toxic poison that is destroying Earth, you know you are dealing with sinister forces. For this reason alone I am baffled when I try to understand why Pope Benedict seems to condone the Marxist new world order that is the goal of climate change hysteria.

 

[rlg94086]

I did a minor in philosophy. Just enough to get me into theology (18 crs). I did like logic and metaphysics. I hated the classics, Phil 101 and 102 back then. BORRRRRRRRRRRRRING.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Haha…I gave up on serious philosophical study when I read Ontological Relativity. The whole discussion about whether a unicorn “exists” or not was too much for me. I guess I shouldn’t have read ahead.

 

[miguel]

No JR. You need to know some basic chemistry to save the planet (or at least so that no one can pull the wool over your eyes).

I apologize JR if this came across as blunt. That wasn’t my intention.

 

[JReducation]

I apologize JR if this came across as blunt. That wasn’t my intention.

Apology accepted.

Listen, I’ve been told worse on these threads. One woman told me that I was a heretic, another person (gender ?) said that I didn’t have a clue what Franciscanism is about. Someone else told me that I was going to hell. And the best one was the poster who told me that my seven-year old son who died in an auto accident, went to hell, because he did not have a chance to go to confession before the accident.

I hope that everyone is having a beautiful day with their loved ones.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Yellow_Belle]

And the best one was the poster who told me that my seven-year old son who died in an auto accident, went to hell, because he did not have a chance to go to confession before the accident.

Brother, I am not easily shocked, and I’m well aware that arguments can become somewhat robust on these forums, but I am beyond shock that someone here would write such a thing to another poster - and with malice aforethought. It is unconscionable.

I wish I could give you more than just this cyber hug :hug1: to say how sorry I am that this happened to you.

Le gach dea-ghui [Best wishes - literally ‘with every best prayer’]

YB

 

[JReducation]

Brother, I am not easily shocked, and I’m well aware that arguments can become somewhat robust on these forums, but I am beyond shock that someone here would write such a thing to another poster - and with malice aforethought. It is unconscionable.

I wish I could give you more than just this cyber hug :hug1: to say how sorry I am that this happened to you.

Le gach dea-ghui [Best wishes - literally ‘with every best prayer’]

YB

I have to admit that I was hurt when I read this. The truth is that my family (wife, father and thee children) were in an auto accident. A young man coming home from a graduation party, having drunk too much, hit their car and my father, wife and one son were killed. My nine-year old daughter and four-year old son survived. That was many years ago. Today, my surviving children are adults and I am a religious. The young man who was driving the other car is a friend. He’s no longer a young man.

After I thought about it, I realize that people on these threads can be very mean in what they perceive to be their defence of truth. They don’t want to be mean. Just like the young man did not want to kill anyone. What do you do? You learn to forgive over and over and over again. You learn to love and love and love.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[miguel]

Apology accepted.

Listen, I’ve been told worse on these threads. One woman told me that I was a heretic, another person (gender ?) said that I didn’t have a clue what Franciscanism is about. Someone else told me that I was going to hell. And the best one was the poster who told me that my seven-year old son who died in an auto accident, went to hell, because he did not have a chance to go to confession before the accident.

I hope that everyone is having a beautiful day with their loved ones.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Thanks JR. It must be horrible to lose family members like that. In spite of this, you are a gentleman and a scholar.

I realize people can’t be experts in everything and not everyone takes chemistry in high school or college. My blunt comment about chemistry wasn’t intended to be directed at you specifically. The people who are calling for an 80% reduction in CO2 emissions are really calling for an 80% reduction in the use of hydrocarbon fuels. I don’t think people fully comprehend how radical that is. And because of that lack of comprehension, they’re being taken for a ride. It’s frustrating to me because the basic chemistry seems so straightforward.

 

[sanpablo]

Whether or not climate change is man-made is not the complete issue. Much of the issue is the fact that we are polluting or world to such a degree that quality of life is being completely downtrodden. When I am uneasy about going on a run down a certain road because of the amount of car exhaust fumes and fumes from smokestacks, that means that something is wrong. When we release as much CO2 into the air as we do(whether or not it is causing the problems right now) it is going to begin to create problems pretty soon. If we have less oxygen released into the air because we are destroying our forests, especially the Amazon rainforests, and much more CO2 released into the air because of all our pollution, 15-20 years down the road we are going to run into a lot of problems, that, at that point (whether or not the problems are man made now) will be man made then.
If the Holy Father is calling you to “listen to the voice of the Earth”, I would suggest doing it. To say that you like his liturgical stance, yet disregard this:

*A True Cosmic Liturgy

…However a difficult question remains, one I cannot answer at length at this moment: why was it necessary to suffer to save the world? It was necessary because there exists in the world an ocean of evil, of injustice, hatred, and violence, and the many victims of hatred and injustice have the right to see justice done. God cannot ignore the cries of the suffering who are oppressed by injustice. To forgive is not to ignore, but to transform. God must enter into this world in order to set against the ocean of injustice a larger ocean of goodness and of love. And this is the event of the Cross: from that moment, against the ocean of evil, there exists a river that is boundless, and so ever mightier than all the injustices of the world, a river of goodness, truth, and love. Thus God forgives, coming into the world and transforming it so that there may be a real strength, a river of goodness wider than all the evil that could ever exist.

So our address to God becomes an address to ourselves: God invites us to join with him, to leave behind the ocean of evil, of hatred, violence, and selfishness and to make ourselves known, to enter into the river of his love.

This is precisely the content of the first part of the prayer that follows: “Let Your Church offer herself to You as a living and holy sacrifice”. This request, addressed to God, is made also to ourselves. It is a reference to two passages from the Letter to the Romans. We ourselves, with our whole being, must be adoration and sacrifice, and by transforming our world, give it back to God. The role of the priesthood is to consecrate the world so that it may become a living host, a liturgy: so that the liturgy may not be something alongside the reality of the world, but that the world itself shall become a living host, a liturgy. This is also the great vision of Teilhard de Chardin: in the end we shall achieve a true cosmic liturgy, where the cosmos becomes a living host. And let us pray the Lord to help us become priests in this sense, to aid in the transformation of the world, in adoration of God, beginning with ourselves. That our lives may speak of God, that our lives may be a true liturgy, an announcement of God, a door through which the distant God may become the present God, and a true giving of ourselves to God.
~ HOMILY OF HIS HOLINESS BENEDICT XVI, Cathedral of Aosta, Friday, 24 July 2009
*

Our world, the ‘natural world’, and the ‘man made world’ is becoming less than what God made it as. We are depleting and disrespecting the natural world that God gave to us, the world that He looked at and said “it was good”. Whether or not the things that people claim are causing global warming really are, most of those things are polluting the world, the human spirit, and the future of mankind.

 

[sanpablo]

I’d like to add, along with JR, what Saint Francis of Assisi said about creation. The pope echoes his words. I encourage everyone to read his “Canticle of the Sun”. And yes, I looked over the Umbrian original briefly and he really does refer to “matre Terra”, or “mother Earth”.

I apologize if my above post was mostly run-ons, I started to write and then just kept going.

 

[JReducation]

I’d like to add, along with JR, what Saint Francis of Assisi said about creation. The pope echoes his words. I encourage everyone to read his “Canticle of the Sun”. And yes, I looked over the Umbrian original briefly and he really does refer to “matre Terra”, or “mother Earth”.

I apologize if my above post was mostly run-ons, I started to write and then just kept going.

The spiritual awareness of man’s “fraternal” relationship to nature is much older than even Francis. It goes back to the OT. The Canticle of the Creatures was inspried by the Book of Daniel when the author of that book calls on every creature to “Bless the Lord.”

From the OT forward, man has expressed great reverence for nature. It’s interesting. If you stop and think about the idea of an inspired book of the Bible calling nature to “Bless the Lord”. What the writer of Daniel has done is given nature huma attributes, the ability to praise God. If we stop to ask ourselves one question, if nature praises God, what does that say aboout man?

In the Gospels, Jesus makes constant use of nature to lead men to truth. He speaks about the mustard seed, the vine and branches, water, fire, figs and themes of light and darkness. In the liturgy the Church speaks to us about the fruit of the vine and about wheat and calls upon the Spirit’s blessings so that they may become the body and blood of Christ.

To hear the Holy Father call us to reflect on climate change or proper stewardship of the Earth is no suprise, considering that every religion, monotheistic and pagan have at least this in common, a sense of the sacredness of creation. This is a truth that subsists within the Catholic Church. So that when others proclaim it, in that precise moment and one that precise statement, they are in communion with the Church, even if they are not in communion on other points.

The point is that whether we believe or not in climate change, we cannot deny that proper reverence toward the created world is part of our faith.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[rlg94086]

The spiritual awareness of man’s “fraternal” relationship to nature is much older than even Francis. It goes back to the OT. The Canticle of the Creatures was inspried by the Book of Daniel when the author of that book calls on every creature to “Bless the Lord.”

From the OT forward, man has expressed great reverence for nature. It’s interesting. If you stop and think about the idea of an inspired book of the Bible calling nature to “Bless the Lord”. What the writer of Daniel has done is given nature huma attributes, the ability to praise God. If we stop to ask ourselves one question, if nature praises God, what does that say aboout man?

In the Gospels, Jesus makes constant use of nature to lead men to truth. He speaks about the mustard seed, the vine and branches, water, fire, figs and themes of light and darkness. In the liturgy the Church speaks to us about the fruit of the vine and about wheat and calls upon the Spirit’s blessings so that they may become the body and blood of Christ.

To hear the Holy Father call us to reflect on climate change or proper stewardship of the Earth is no suprise, considering that every religion, monotheistic and pagan have at least this in common, a sense of the sacredness of creation. This is a truth that subsists within the Catholic Church. So that when others proclaim it, in that precise moment and one that precise statement, they are in communion with the Church, even if they are not in communion on other points.

**The point is that whether we believe or not in climate change, we cannot deny that proper reverence toward the created world is part of our faith.
**
Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

I think that 99.9999% (approximately) of the Catholics on this forum agree with the bolded point. The problem that occurs is when a leap of faith is added to the issue. Just because we are called to protect our environment, it doesn’t mean that, as Catholics, we must support every environmental action made by governmental bodies.

If the effects of man on climate change are overstated, and unnecessary draconian environmental regulations ensue which wreak havoc on the economy and result in financial strife for the poor; then we take a good thing (i.e. care for the environment) and turn it into a bad thing (i.e. increased poverty). Some Catholics, well intentioned though they may be, make this mistake. It is what the Holy Father warns about when he talks about this:
ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=99445

On the other hand, a correct understanding of the relationship between man and the environment will not end by absolutising nature or by considering it more important than the human person. If the Church’s Magisterium expresses grave misgivings about notions of the environment inspired by eco-centrism and bio-centrism, it is because such notions eliminate the difference of identity and worth between the human person and other living things. In the name of a supposedly egalitarian vision of the “dignity” of all living creatures, such notions end up abolishing the distinctiveness and superior role of human beings. They also open the way to a new pantheism tinged with neo-paganism, which would see the source of man’s salvation in nature alone, understood in purely naturalistic terms.

If a Catholic is in favor of taking care of the environment, they can still be opposed to a particular piece of legislation that they deem harmful to humanity. It’s a fine balance. We can’t let Catholics off the hook who want to use this as a loophole to prevent environmental action, but we should be careful to chastise. Remember, many environmentalists are also pushing zero population growth and other such nonsense.

For me, I’m in favor of sensible regulation on businesses and encouraging individual environmental actions.