Pope Calls Laity to Responsibility in the Church

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Yes the parish pastor has been talking about evangelization in our church too. That we should be witnesses out in the world.
They talked about new Evangelization when I was 16 years old, 26 years old, 40 years old and continue to talk about it and I’m 61 now.

New Evangelization means a new commitment to bring the Gospel to the world in the current context.

Evangelization hasn’t ceased and has been an ongoing event since Christ sent the Apostles out into the world the preach the “Good News.”

Jim
 
RE: BPJPII’s misunderstood words on the muslims:

If they worship Allah thinking they worship God, in invincible ignorance they direct, poorly, worship to God. But, they do not worship the same God.

This nuance is deep in theology and on its face renders sycophantic understandings which are outright heresy. BPJPII had more brains and theological understanding in his little finger than you and I have in our pea brains. He also had a horrible habit of saying things he understood that he thought the laity would understand, and didn’t.
That quote is on the EWTN site, which seems to me to be a “slightly” Catholic organization. Was JPII too mystical for them also? I tend to think he clearly said what he meant whether I agree with him or not.
 
They talked about new Evangelization when I was 16 years old, 26 years old, 40 years old and continue to talk about it and I’m 61 now.

New Evangelization means a new commitment to bring the Gospel to the world in the current context.

Evangelization hasn’t ceased and has been an ongoing event since Christ sent the Apostles out into the world the preach the “Good News.”

Jim/QUOTE

.We’re making a plan to reach out to those that live by the church. We’re starting locally.
 
I didn’t say it had to do with Mass alone, for without Mass which includes active participation by the laity as Vatican II calls for, the mission is in peril.
Your second post (#9) quite clearly focuses on these aspects alone, and ends declaring them a triumph of Vatican II.
The Mass is one of the main things that separates us from protestants.
As much as it pains me to express this, that is debatable, based on what one sees and experiences at some celebrations of the Mass.
 
Either you have a vocation to the priesthood, or to religious life or you don’t.

If a person doesn’t have such a vocation then they are called to live holy lives in the world.

We don’t have to playact at being religious or priests in order to live a full, challenging and holy life of prayer and mission.

In some ways it is the hardest vocation of all:
  • To be a holy and faith-filled and faithful husband and father, or wife and mother, or single person.
  • To live chastely whatever our married or relationship state
  • To be Catholic in the world today.
  • To be a Catholic teacher, or policeman, or chef, or soldier, or nurse, or doctor, or construction worker etc., etc.
We can make a huge difference wherever we are, and in doing so we participate with Christ in His mission of re-Creating the world.

This is a life of quiet heroism and service and leadership.

It means we need to make stands, take positions, make our voices heard, be seen and be counted. This also means we will be reviled and spat on, laughed at, sued, ignored, called wackos.:cool:

It means we need to properly inform our consciences, learn our faith, become familiar with orthodox theology.

This is all good!👍
 
They talked about new Evangelization when I was 16 years old, 26 years old, 40 years old and continue to talk about it and I’m 61 now.

New Evangelization means a new commitment to bring the Gospel to the world in the current context.

Evangelization hasn’t ceased and has been an ongoing event since Christ sent the Apostles out into the world the preach the “Good News.”

Jim
We’re trying to reach out to those that live by the church. We’re starting locally.
 
Either you have a vocation to the priesthood, or to religious life or you don’t.

If a person doesn’t have such a vocation then they are called to live holy lives in the world.

We don’t have to playact at being religious or priests in order to live a full, challenging and holy life of prayer and mission.

In some ways it is the hardest vocation of all:
  • To be a holy and faith-filled and faithful husband and father, or wife and mother.
  • To be Catholic in the world today.
  • To be a Catholic teacher, or policeman, or chef, or soldier, or nurse, or doctor, or construction worker etc., etc.
We can make a huge difference wherever we are, and in doing so we participate with Christ in His mission of recreating the world.
Awesome! 👍
 
From SACROSANCTUM CONCILIUM
III. The Reform of the Sacred Liturgy
  1. In order that the Christian people may more certainly derive an abundance of graces from the sacred liturgy, holy Mother Church desires to undertake with great care a general restoration of the liturgy itself. For the liturgy is made up of immutable elements divinely instituted, and of elements subject to change. These not only may but ought to be changed with the passage of time if they have suffered from the intrusion of anything out of harmony with the inner nature of the liturgy or have become unsuited to it.
In this restoration, both texts and rites should be drawn up so that they express more clearly the holy things which they signify; the Christian people, so far as possible, should be enabled to understand them with ease and to take part in them fully, actively, and as befits a community.
II. The Promotion of Liturgical Instruction and Active Participation
14. Mother Church earnestly desires that all the faithful should be led to that fully conscious, and active participation in liturgical celebrations which is demanded by the very nature of the liturgy. Such participation by the Christian people as "a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a redeemed people (1 Pet. 2:9; cf. 2:4-5), is their right and duty by reason of their baptism.
In the restoration and promotion of the sacred liturgy, this full and active participation by all the people is the aim to be considered before all else; for it is the primary and indispensable source from which the faithful are to derive the true Christian spirit; and therefore pastors of souls must zealously strive to achieve it, by means of the necessary instruction, in all their pastoral work.
Bold is mine.

If you’re going to try and explain that full and active participation means sitting in the pew and reading along with your missal, I have to point out how the Bishops have made the changes of active participation which the laity are part of today.

Yes, there are those who would return us to the days of the laity sitting in the pews, while Priest, altar boys and Choir, are the only physically active participants in the Mass.

But as Pope Benedict XVI has been expressing, it isn’t going to happen.

We’re moving forward, not backwards.

JJim
 
Either you have a vocation to the priesthood, or to religious life or you don’t.

If a person doesn’t have such a vocation then they are called to live holy lives in the world.

We don’t have to playact at being religious or priests in order to live a full, challenging and holy life of prayer and mission.

In some ways it is the hardest vocation of all:
  • To be a holy and faith-filled and faithful husband and father, or wife and mother.
  • To be Catholic in the world today.
  • To be a Catholic teacher, or policeman, or chef, or soldier, or nurse, or doctor, or construction worker etc., etc.
We can make a huge difference wherever we are, and in doing so we participate with Christ in His mission of recreating the world.
👍
 
From SACROSANCTUM CONCILIUM

Bold is mine.

If you’re going to try and explain that full and active participation means sitting in the pew and reading along with your missal, I have to point out how the Bishops have made the changes of active participation which the laity are part of today.

Yes, there are those who would return us to the days of the laity sitting in the pews, while Priest, altar boys and Choir, are the only physically active participants in the Mass.

But as Pope Benedict XVI has been expressing, it isn’t going to happen.

We’re moving forward, not backwards.

JJim
Yes by singing I’m participating during mass. I’m involved in different prayer groups and that’s also participating. One doesn’t have to be a lector or server to be part of the mass.
 
Because the Church exists in heaven.

But that’s not the point being made here…

Jim
The point I was addressing was you comment that without the laity, the Church would not exist. “The Importance of the laity is that without the laity, there is no Church.”

That statement was incorrect and I was addressing it.
 
ByzCathCantor

Part, but not the elite portion.

But he’s also not saying that the laity are to be excluded from the ministries involved on the sanctuary.

You believe his mission is to confuse the masses?

I think there is confusion on your part if this is what you believe.

Jim
I think it is sacrilege on the part of the poster,byzcathcanthor, when he says something like pb16 trying to confuse the masses like Lord Jesus Christ…
 
Yes by singing I’m participating during mass. I’m involved in different prayer groups and that’s also participating. One doesn’t have to be a lector or server to be part of the mass.
Then you’re not called to serve in those parts of the Mass others are.

Jim
 
The point I was addressing was you comment that without the laity, the Church would not exist. “The Importance of the laity is that without the laity, there is no Church.”

That statement was incorrect and I was addressing it.
Without the laity, there is no Church on earth, there wouldn’t even be any point for Christ establishing it, let alone suffer and die for us.

Heck, no need for the Apostles either. Who would they have evangelized ?

The Church is both mystical and visible.

We on earth are the visible Church.

Jim
 
I’m sorry but I don’t find that to be true. The church I attend does the traditional Latin mass during the week and about 3 different times on Sundays. The church is packed. We’re blessed with atleast 8 priests and more than a dozen brothers. It’s a pretty new order too. They have so many young men trying to join the order.
I’m really glad that this is your situation, but the reality is this is very rare now.
The young people including myself (mid 20’s) thirst for something more. The Latin mass has truly opened my eyes and has given me an intimacy with the Lord. I used to be a lector at a “liberal” church I was even an alter server, but I know that wasn’t my place.
I am VERY glad that you have found a place to experience Christ intimately, especially at a young age.
I don’t need to be the centerl of attention. There are some laity that let their “position” get to their head.
Any leader, lay or priestly, in a church needs to remember it’s Christ’s church not theirs. It’s a real testiment of faith to those who humbly lead well in a church.
At the end of the day it’s not my house nor the priests, but God’s house. The day we don’t have a priest is the day we should panic because then there’s no consecration. .
This is the case for about 15% of the Catholic churches in the US last I saw.
 
From SACROSANCTUM CONCILIUM

Bold is mine.

If you’re going to try and explain that full and active participation means sitting in the pew and reading along with your missal, I have to point out how the Bishops have made the changes of active participation which the laity are part of today.

Yes, there are those who would return us to the days of the laity sitting in the pews, while Priest, altar boys and Choir, are the only physically active participants in the Mass.

But as Pope Benedict XVI has been expressing, it isn’t going to happen.

We’re moving forward, not backwards.

JJim
Jim, you do realize you are being very insulting especially to those of us who attend the TLM, which you obviously are referring to, but also to those whose practice is not to have the laity in the sanctuary. Is this intentional?
 
I think it is sacrilege on the part of the poster,byzcathcanthor, when he says something like pb16 trying to confuse the masses like Lord Jesus Christ…
I did not say that, as you might have gathered if you actually read the post which drew the cited response. I’m actually very supportive of Pope Benedict XVI, and feel truly blessed that he is our Holy Father. Further, I am very supportive of what he is teaching in this message.

Since we want to accuse me of sacrilege (which is an offense against a sacred object, not a holy person), we should also throw in the usual charges of heresy and other grave offenses often lightly hurled here at others.

Just remember - it is gravely sinful to bear false witness, and there should be no doubt about that.
 
Active participation could probably be best started by Catholics actually going to Mass… 75% or so do not go to Mass on Sundays.

Here’s what is MEANT by active participation:
  1. Only by being radically faithful to this doctrinal foundation can we avoid one-dimensional and unilateral interpretations of the Council’s teaching. The sharing of all the baptized in the one priesthood of Jesus Christ is the key to understanding the Council’s call for full, conscious and active participation in the liturgy (Sacrosanctum Concilium, 14). Full participation certainly means that every member of the community has a part to play in the liturgy; and in this respect a great deal has been achieved in parishes and communities across your land. But full participation does not mean that everyone does everything, since this would lead to a clericalizing of the laity and a laicizing of the priesthood; and this was not what the Council had in mind. The liturgy, like the Church, is intended to be hierarchical and polyphonic, respecting the different roles assigned by Christ and allowing all the different voices to blend in one great hymn of praise.
Active participation certainly means that, in gesture, word, song and service, all the members of the community take part in an act of worship, which is anything but inert or passive. **Yet active participation does not preclude the active passivity of silence, stillness and listening: indeed, it demands it. **Worshippers are not passive, for instance, when listening to the readings or the homily, or following the prayers of the celebrant, and the chants and music of the liturgy. These are experiences of silence and stillness, but they are in their own way profoundly active. In a culture which neither favors nor fosters meditative quiet, the art of interior listening is learned only with difficulty. Here we see how the liturgy, though it must always be properly inculturated, must also be counter-cultural.
Conscious participation calls for the entire community to be properly instructed in the mysteries of the liturgy, lest the experience of worship degenerate into a form of ritualism. But it does not mean a constant attempt within the liturgy itself to make the implicit explicit, since this often leads to a verbosity and informality which are alien to the Roman Rite and end by trivializing the act of worship. Nor does it mean the suppression of all subconscious experience, which is vital in a liturgy which thrives on symbols that speak to the subconscious just as they speak to the conscious. The use of the vernacular has certainly opened up the treasures of the liturgy to all who take part, but this does not mean that the Latin language, and especially the chants which are so superbly adapted to the genius of the Roman Rite, should be wholly abandoned. **If subconscious experience is ignored in worship, an affective and devotional vacuum is created and the liturgy can become not only too verbal but also too cerebral. **Yet the Roman Rite is again distinctive in the balance it strikes between a spareness and a richness of emotion: it feeds the heart and the mind, the body and the soul. It has been written with good reason that in the history of the Church all true renewal has been linked to a re-reading of the Church Fathers. And what is true in general is true of the liturgy in particular. The Fathers were pastors with a burning zeal for the task of spreading the Gospel; and therefore they were profoundly interested in all the dimensions of worship, leaving us some of the most significant and enduring texts of the Christian tradition, which are anything but the result of a barren aestheticism. The Fathers were ardent preachers, and it is hard to imagine that there can be an effective renewal of Catholic preaching, as the Council wished, without sufficient familiarity with the Patristic tradition. The Council promoted a move to a homiletic mode of preaching which would, like the Fathers, expound the biblical text in a way which opens its inexhaustible riches to the faithful. The importance that preaching has assumed in Catholic worship since the Council means that priests and deacons should be trained to make good use of the Bible. But this also involves familiarity with the whole Patristic, theological and moral tradition, as well as a penetrating knowledge of their communities and of society in general. Otherwise the impression is given of a teaching without roots and without the universal application inherent in the Gospel message. The excellent synthesis of the Church’s doctrinal wealth contained in the Catechism of the Catholic Church has yet to be more widely felt as an influence on Catholic preaching.
Source: adoremus.org/JPIIadlim1198.html

It’s basically what Brendan, ByzCathCantor, Truelight, and even pathetic me have been saying.

It’s exactly the OPPOSITE of the interpretation taken here by others. :rolleyes:
 
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