Pope Clarifies Luther's Idea of Justification

[Chris_LaRock]

Wow, you have REALLY misinterpreted Jesus here (like protestants often do).
The point of “but through me” is I DECIDE who comes to the father. Our lord Jesus Christ can CHOOSE to vouch for whomever he wants. He has the POWER to embrace anyone into his body. You, Chris LaRock, do NOT have the POWER to limit the POWER of Christ.
Nobody can come to the Father unless our Lord Jesus Christ SAYS its OK.

I would repeat the questions others have asked you like “The Jews dont accept Jesus, do they worship a different God?” but as someone has already pointed out, you don’t answer questions…because you can’t answer them.

Let me repeat: JESUS CAN VOUCH FOR ANYONE HE WANTS.

So - we can go through Buddah, Krishna, Molech, Baal, or any other diety to get to the Father? It’s the blood attonement of Jesus that makes a relationship with God possible. I think the text is clear on that.

Bible prophecy states the Jews would reject the messiah, and the gentiles would accept him. So, no. They worship the same God.

 

[notsmart]

So - we can go through Buddah, Krishna, Molech, Baal, or any other diety to get to the Father? It’s the blood attonement of Jesus that makes a relationship with God possible. I think the text is clear on that.

Bible prophecy states the Jews would reject the messiah, and the gentiles would accept him. So, no. They worship the same God.

The bible tells me otherwise. The Jews will be the last to recieve but will recieve it they will.
Read about the wineskins.
The “old” and the “new”

The faithful Jews will recieve the Messiah before the day of judgment.
The unfaithful gentiles, will not.

 

[Chris_LaRock]

The bible tells me otherwise. The Jews will be the last to recieve but will recieve it they will.
Read about the wineskins.
The “old” and the “new”

The faithful Jews will recieve the Messiah before the day of judgment.
The unfaithful gentiles, will not.

I understand that, but Muslims do NOT worship the same God as Jews and Christians. Just compare their concepts of Messiah. The Muslim Messiah fits the Biblical description of anti-Christ.

 

[Bamm]

I understand that, but Muslims do NOT worship the same God as Jews and Christians. Just compare their concepts of Messiah. The Muslim Messiah fits the Biblical description of anti-Christ.

Read Gen. 21-- specifically verse 18

Moslems claim the blood line of Abraham decended from Ishmael.

Same God – Abraham’s God.

Jews and Christians claim the blood line of Abraham decended from Isaac.

Same God – Abraham"s God!

 

[notsmart]

I understand that, but Muslims do NOT worship the same God as Jews and Christians. Just compare their concepts of Messiah. The Muslim Messiah fits the Biblical description of anti-Christ.

Let’s just say they don’t have Jesus correct, and as a trinitarian that may on the surface look like they have a totally different God than a trinitarian does. But, while their understanding of God is not complete it is not Baal they are worshiping. It is the God of Moses, and Abraham they worship. The one God that the Jews worship. Certainly we don’t say the Jews do not worship the God who created the heavens and the earth. So, we must accept on face value when they say they also worship that same God, that they do. Of course, christians have the one True God as revealed to us in scripture. Muslims have a muddled understanding of the True God, but it is the True God they worship.
They just don’t have the hope we do.

 

[Chris_LaRock]

Read Gen. 21-- specifically verse 18

Moslems claim the blood line of Abraham decended from Ishmael.

Same God – Abraham’s God.

Jews and Christians claim the blood line of Abraham decended from Isaac.

Same God – Abraham"s God!

But the doctrines taught by the muslim god differ in many ways from the God of the Bible. Besides, a prophet must come from the bloodline of Isaac.

 

[notsmart]

But the doctrines taught by the muslim god differ in many ways from the God of the Bible. Besides, a prophet must come from the bloodline of Isaac.

But, they follow another holy book and not the bible.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Pope Clarifies Luther’s Idea of Justification
Why does it seem he endorses the doctrine of an arch-heretic? Am I missing something here?

Eeeeeeegaaads…the Zenit news article is terribly misleading.

The article states, “Benedict XVI says Martin Luther’s doctrine on justification is correct, if faith "is not opposed to charity.”

That’s not what Pope Benedict XVI said in the General Audience address. Pope Benedict was not speaking of Luther’s “doctrine on justification,” which is very broad topic which contains various errors. What Pope Benedict said was:

“…Luther translated: “justified by faith alone”…our common identity within the diversity of cultures is Christ, and it is he who makes us just. Being just simply means being with Christ and in Christ. And this suffices. Further observances [of the Torah] are no longer necessary. For this reason Luther’s phrase: “faith alone” is true, if it is not opposed to faith in charity, in love. Faith is looking at Christ, entrusting oneself to Christ, being united to Christ, conformed to Christ, to his life. ***And the form, ***the life of Christ, is love; hence to believe is to conform to Christ and to enter into his love. So it is that in the Letter to the Galatians in which he primarily developed his teaching on justification St Paul speaks of faith that works through love (cf. Gal 5:14)… justice is decided in charity…charity is the fulfilment of communion with Christ. Thus, we are just by being united with him and in no other way.” [Pope Benedict XVI, General Audience Address, 19 November 2008]

Past Catholic expression has been we are justified by faith “formed by love.” That’s what the pope means above.

Luther’s entire doctrine of justification was not called “correct” by Pope Benedict. On the contrary, he was only referring to Luther’s phrase “faith alone” which can be understood to be correct, given that it is “faith that works through love” which means that “justice is decided in charity.”

Luther explicitly repudiated the Catholic teaching of justification by faith “formed by love.” He was incorrect.

See the entire General Audience address, 19 November 2008, *Saint Paul *

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Wha??? How did this become a discussion about Muslims?

See here…

Pope St. Gregory VII (pope from 1073 to 1085) to Muslim King Anazir of Maurentania:“… we believe in and confess the same God, although by different modes (licet diverso modo), that we praise and venerate each day the Creator of the ages and master of this world” [St. Gregory VII, Letter III, 21 to Anazir (Al-Nasir), King of Mauretania PL, 148. 451A.] See more here: #91, #92 , #97
and here:
**Same God? - Catholic Answers Forums

**

 

[MALACHYONE]

The sad thing for a blue collar every day Catholic is how many lives have been lost and ruined by arguers and arguments that many put on here.

Luther was chased down like a dog after he was found to be against the ideas of the Church. It wasn’t as simple as if he had been willing to cooperate.

We see and hear some of it today if a Catholic is bold enough to express their true feelings; so most remain quiet and “faithful.”

Theologians need to get together and in spite of all of their assumed expertise, have never been able to do that. Thats sad.

I am sure that God (or Jesus) would be saying, you are so right smart person: "Don’t let so and so in, and don’t let that one in, and etc etc.

Lets get the green lights on and become inclusive of human beings of all stripes;their should be rooms and room for all in our Church.

And please quit judging, in all your pride; God will do that for you.

 

[MALACHYONE]

Eeeeeeegaaads…the Zenit news article is terribly misleading.

The article states, “Benedict XVI says Martin Luther’s doctrine on justification is correct, if faith "is not opposed to charity.”

That’s not what Pope Benedict XVI said in the General Audience address. Pope Benedict was not speaking of Luther’s “doctrine on justification,” which is very broad topic which contains various errors. What Pope Benedict said was:

Past Catholic expression has been we are justified by faith “formed by love.” That’s what the pope means above.

Luther’s entire doctrine of justification was not called “correct” by Pope Benedict. On the contrary, he was only referring to Luther’s phrase “faith alone” which can be understood to be correct, given that it is “faith that works through love” which means that “justice is decided in charity.”

Luther explicitly repudiated the Catholic teaching of justification by faith “formed by love.” He was incorrect.

See the entire General Audience address, 19 November 2008, *Saint Paul *

OR HOW MANY ANGELS CAN STAND ON THE TOP OF A PIN?

 

[MALACHYONE]

Jesus said: “I am the way, the truthy, and the life. NOBODY comes to the Father, but through me.”

Was he mistaken, or lying?

Did you ever tell somebody something and then have them pass that message on to the next of ten persons standing beside them, and then listen to how that message has changed by the time the tenth repeats it???

Please relax, and quit being so black and white and absolute about everything. That is not love and truth.

 

[MLE]

Please relax, and quit being so black and white and absolute about everything. That is not love and truth.

But truth IS absolute.

Christ IS TRUTH.
Christ is GOD.
GOD is eternal and IMMUTABLE and does not change.

ergo TRUTH is absolute and unchanging.

If you deny this… you deny CHRIST!

It is simple logic… and, bye the way, a teaching of the Catholic Church.