Pope, Curia to discuss reconciliation with SSPX

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I maybe new here, but i like the Holy Church to reconcile with SSPX. after all it is the teaching of Christ to forgive and love one another, didnt He? and i also like to attend a traditinal tridentine mass, so let’s all pray for this.

Sancti Michaele Arcangeli, defende nos ab omnibus malis
 
I am less optimistic… I think once a group as separated from Holy Mother Church, they have done irreversible damage. What I mean is, even if SSPX decides to reconcile… I believe there will always be a percentage of them who aren’t happy with the reconcilation and they will then form a new Traditionalist group separated from Rome.

Just as if Lutherans decided to return, I believe a splinter group would decide they were upset at the reconciliation and form their own group apart from Rome…
 
I am a young Catholic (27 yrs. old)… who is a revert to the Cathoilc Faith. I’ve only been back for about 7-8 years. I am very partial to the Traditional Mass and have certain “issues” with the Mass of Pope Paul VI. However, I would never ever call it invalid.

In fact, I attend the most “Traditional” Novus Ordo in the country. Of course, I haven’t seen all Novus Ordos, but I am convinced this one would rank up there. We have Gregorian Chant, Sacred Polyphony, First Friday Benediction with Latin N.O. Mass (ad orientum), pray the rosary before every Mass, confession before every single Mass, have much Latin in the Mass

The reason I don’t go to the FSSP Mass down the street is because I find that Traditionalists hardly have any evangelization or massive outreach going on. I don’t see them holding debates, apologetics conferences, going door-to-door, or something, anything… It seems that they are so focused on the liturgy that they end up living in a bubble and forgetting the rest of the world. My current parish is very involved in trying to convert the world.

This is not to say that protecting the liturgy is bad… it is very very good… I wish that all people would have this zeal. But we shouldn’t ignore the call the preach the Gospel and convert people outside the walls of the Church.

Another thing that turns me off is people like Alfredo. Granted not all Traditionalists are like this, but you run pockets of them at almost any Traditional Mass, FSSP included.
 
It is very, very wrong to call SSPX “defenders of Catholic tradition,” because they reject Vatican II. They are not allowed to do this, because it is a valid ecumenical council, despite what they say to the contrary.

Of course there have been abuses with the mass. But this does not render the mass invalid. The fact of the matter is, they are no different from Protestants–they insist on interpreting doctrine according to their own personal views, rather than humbly submitting to the Vicar of Christ. You can’t have it both ways.

They will claim, “oh, it’s only discipline, not Church doctrine, that we’re opposing.” Nice try, but if you actually read Vatican I (which SSPX claims to uphold), it specifically says that the Roman Pontiff has full and supreme authority in matters of Church DISCIPLINE as well as in matters of Faith and Morals. Therefore, they can’t rely on the argument, “oh, Vatican II didn’t define anything, so we don’t have to obey it.” That is simply not true. Read Vatican I, and you will clearly see it.

It does not matter how reverent their masses may be, because they have severed themselves off from Christ’s Bride, His One True Church, despite what they may claim to the contrary. They have said horrendous, horrendous things about every Pope from Blessed John XXIII (yes, I am proud to call the man who stared Vatican II “blessed”) to Benedict XVI.

They are just like Protestants, except whereas Protestants interpret Sacred Scripture according to their own personal preferences, SSPX interprets Sacred Tradition according to their own personal preferences. They are puffed up with pride and refuse to humble themselves and submit to the authority of the Vicar of Christ, the Roman Pontiff.

I pray for reconciliation. But no such reconciliation will come about until they recognize that Vatican II was valid, and that they owe it, AND the Pope, their alliegance.

And finally, I should point out that I absolutely love the Tridentine Mass, but unlike supposed “traditionalists” who separate themselves from the Church, I recognize that any beauty that that mass may offer is for nought if those who celebrate it are not in union with the Pope. You cannot go to an SSPX mass and remain in good standing with the Church.
 
I am probably the worst person in the world to bring this up, as I am outside of communion with Rome, but I find it a bit ironic, that people claim the Vatican I supreme authority bit when it comes to trying to defend the novus ordo, but they ignore it completely when Quo Primum is mentioned and it was the same supreme authority which said about the Tridentine Mass:
Now therefore, in order that all everywhere may adopt and observe what has been delivered to them by the Holy Roman Church, Mother and Mistress of the other churches, it shall be unlawful henceforth and forever throughout the Christian world to sing or to read Masses according to any formula other than that of this Missal published by Us…
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Apparently though supreme authority isn’t so supreme if the next person with supreme authority can just toss out that which was given under the supreme authority clause.

Now granted St. Pius the V. came way before Vatican I, but the councils only put in cement that which has been believed from all time. So even though Quo Primum came before Vatican I, it should have been still been under the supreme authority clause.
 
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alfredo123:
Well, you people can have your Vagina Monologues, you can have your priests masturbating with young boys, you can have your homosexual priest perverts, and you can have your dancing girls at “Mass”, you can have your clown Masses, you can have your profane folk and rock Masses and hand clapping. I hope you enjoy them I will take my Latin Mass, I will take my Gregorian chant and my rosary, I will take my Catholic religion at full strength, and I will take my excommunication at SSPX.
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Well Alfredo123,

You came on pretty strong here. But I ran across another one of your posts that has be puzzled.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=967598&page=1

Pg. 1 Post #45

Quote Alfredo123
“I think that Muslims are right to be offended by disrespect to the founder of their religion.”

The defense of the Muslims would be the last thing I would expect to come from an SSPXr.
There are some that are vehemently opposed to any reconciliation between the Church and the SSPX. I now wonder if you are here just to churn the waters and keep the rift open.
 
Walking_Home said:
--------------------------

Well Alfredo123,

You came on pretty strong here. But I ran across another one of your posts that has be puzzled.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=967598&page=1

Pg. 1 Post #45

Quote Alfredo123
“I think that Muslims are right to be offended by disrespect to the founder of their religion.”

The defense of the Muslims would be the last thing I would expect to come from an SSPXr.
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I try to do what is right and I think that the Pope is correct here.
totalcatholic.com/universe/index.php?news_id=736&start=0&category_id=&parent_id=0&arcyear=&arcmonth=
Sorry everyone to be off topic, but the point was raised by someone else and I thought it should be answered.
 
Apparently though supreme authority isn’t so supreme if the next person with supreme authority can just toss out that which was given under the supreme authority clause.
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That’s true, except I mean it non-sarcastically. If a Pope has Supreme Authority, he must either be able to change the past but not bind the future, or bind the future but not be able to change the past. But he cannot have both. And what he does have is the power to change disciplinary decisions of Popes before him, but not bind the future.
Now granted St. Pius the V. came way before Vatican I, but the councils only put in cement that which has been believed from all time. So even though Quo Primum came before Vatican I, it should have been still been under the supreme authority clause.
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“The Pope possesses full and supreme power of jurisdiction over the whole Church, not merely in matters of faith and morals, but also in Church discipline and in the government of the Church. (De fide.)”

This dogma does not allow Popes to bind future Popes disciplinarily, because then that future Pope’s power would not be supreme.
 
Does anyone know what came out of this? I have looked and looked and cannot find any further info other than the initial announcement.
 
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gelsbern:
Does anyone know what came out of this? I have looked and looked and cannot find any further info other than the initial announcement.
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The last I saw, they agreed to disagree.
 
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gelsbern:
Does anyone know what came out of this? I have looked and looked and cannot find any further info other than the initial announcement.
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The blog world says (speculates?) there’s been another interdicasterial meeting scheduled as follow-up. The SSPX themselves are very hard to read, but I think HH is pretty committed to bending over backward for them if they’ll just accept VII.
 
Rand Al'Thor:
Since the SSPX considers the Novus Ordo to be an invalid Mass…
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Correct me if I’m mistaken, but I thought the SSPX considers the Novus Ordo to be valid. If they consider it to be invalid, then that, of course, would be a major obstacle to reconciliation.

J89
 
The SSPX consider the Novus Ordo VALID but damaging to the Faith because of it’s ambiguity as regards the sacrificial nature of the Mass and it’s bluring the distinction between Priest and Laity and because it is a NEW RITE (as Paul VI said). Thus some consider it illicit. As a matter of fact the** SSPX just published a defence of the VALIDITY of the Novus Ordo Episcopal rite of Consecration ** - as some traditional Catholics (including Gerry Metatics) have doubts as to it’s validity. Playing with the liturgical heritage of Catholics causes NOTHING other than confusion and loss of faith!

**As to Vatican II, the SSPX recognize it as a Valid Ecumenical Council but that it was a PASTORAL COUNCIL ** as Pope Paul VI HIMSELF declared AND as a VII note EXPLAINING HOW The council documents are to be interpreted says; that considering the PASTORAL NATURE of the Council ONLY those things DEFINED as of FAITH have to be believed. Please ignore the titles DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION… There is no DOGMA defined in there. Otherwise, one is free to disagree with the NOVEL teachings.

So the **SSPX holds to the traditional teaching regarding religious liberty ** (tolerance is the word they prefer), **ecumenism (which was condemned by Pius IX ** (?)) they hold unambigiously that ONLY the Catholic Church IS (as oposed to “subsist”) THE ONE Church of Christ and all who wish to be saved are to convert to her, and **collegiality They regard as diminishing the Supreme governing role of the Pope ** and make the Church with 2 heads (conciliarism) the Pope and the Bishops.

It has been admitted, even by Card, Ratz. that VII was a Pastoral council and did not define any Dogma of Faith or morals that has to be obeyed as EVERY other Ecumenical council did. So there is NOTHING that the SSPX is FORCED to believe regarding VII that, if they refuse, will make them non-Catholics.

Indeed, the** CCC RESTORED the TRADITIONAL limits to religious freedom that is the COMMON GOOD**. VII only restriced it to civil order which was severly criticized by Abp. Lefebvre, the SSPX and Michael Davies.
 
This is my experience.

I find the members of SSPX that I know to be good and holy people. I also find them to be conspiracy theorists. One member told me the local non-SSPX chuch near him has Deacons performing Mass, not preists. This is not true. one member told me JPII was a big proponent of “One world religion”, this is not true. I am also told many of the cardinals in Rome are Masons, I have seen no evidence of this. The list goes on.

I was given the remnant a couple of times and I find their editorials to be disrespectful of the Pope and the Church outside of SSPX in general.

I think reconciliation with SSPX may be more difficult than first believed and it won’t be the Vaticans fault. In my opinion, one poster hit the nail on the head, that if it’s not done under this pope, there will be no reconciliation.
 
I will surely pray for this reuniona and recognize God can do the impossible. The obstacles surely seem high, though, if members of the SSPX (such as the poster here) view it as a return to, and reconciliation of, the Church to the SSPX.
 
Michael C:
This is my experience.

I find the members of SSPX that I know to be good and holy people. I also find them to be conspiracy theorists. One member told me the local non-SSPX chuch near him has Deacons performing Mass, not preists. This is not true. one member told me JPII was a big proponent of “One world religion”, this is not true. I am also told many of the cardinals in Rome are Masons, I have seen no evidence of this. The list goes on.

I was given the remnant a couple of times and I find their editorials to be disrespectful of the Pope and the Church outside of SSPX in general.

I think reconciliation with SSPX may be more difficult than first believed and it won’t be the Vaticans fault. In my opinion, one poster hit the nail on the head, that if it’s not done under this pope, there will be no reconciliation.
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I hate to agree with you, but you are fairly accurate. I currently go to a SSPX chapel, and, although many at the church are holy, decent people, they do tend to espouse the conspiracy theories. Not everybody of course. I would have to say that most of the parishiners are very devout, and extremely knowledgable concerning Catholic Dogma.

One of the reasons I am heavily considering finding a conservative NO parish, however, are some of the things that the parishiners say. I believe, very soon, that there will be some sort of reconciliation between the Holy See and SSPX.
 
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