E
estesbob
Guest
I have no idea what you are talking about. Howver I have a feeling itts not about Re: Pope Declares-Non Catholics Do Not Possess the Full Truth
- Status
B
believers
Guest
It does. I’m going to prove to you that Non-Catholics DO possess the full truth. AND, that Catholics possess false doctrine.
E
estesbob
Guest
And what doctrine is that?
B
believers
Guest
Yes, the RCC preaches that Christ is risen. However, the RCC DOES NOT preach that the dead in Christ are risen WITH HIM. She preaches purgatory. Sorry… but those in Christ MUST believe that they are risen WITH HIM. No way around that one. Believing that those in Christ go somewhere else other than with Christ makes your belief and faith vain.
A
Allweather
Guest
Got a bad case of oversimplification at work here…
E
estesbob
Guest
Perhaps you could enlighten us all as to exactly what you mean by what I have bolded. What do you base it on? You are aware that purgatory is a temporary place? That only those who have achieved slavation go there? That one goes to Heaven after being further purified there?
"If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
1 Corinthians 3:14–15
E
estesbob
Guest
Yup!
B
believers
Guest
1Cr 15:12
Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? (INSERT PURGATORY)
1Cr 15:13
But if there be no resurrection of the dead, **then is Christ not risen:
**
1Cr 15:14
And if Christ be not risen, then [is] our preaching vain, and your faith [is] also vain.
1Cr 15:15
Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
1Cr 15:16
For if the dead rise not,** then is not Christ raised**:
1Cr 15:17
And if Christ be not raised, your faith [is] vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1Cr 15:18
Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
1Cr 15:19
If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
1Cr 15:20
But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept.
1Cr 15:21
For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead.
1Cr 15:22
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Col 3:1
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2
Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
A
allischalmers
Guest
Are you saying that my dearly departed sister in law that grow up in Germany before, during and after WW2 was lieing.
B
blacktiger057
Guest
Excellant point! The pope was one of the first reasons I moved away from Caatholicism in the first place, and the biggest one by far!
T
Tantum_ergo
Guest
Oversimplification and refusal to listen. But here goes:
Purgatory: Only those who believe in Christ ‘go’ to Purgatory. Those who do not believe in Christ and are not ‘saved’ (in your terminology) go to hell. All those who go to Purgatory are saved and delivered and do indeed ‘rise from the dead with Christ’. And this has been taught for many centuries more than your erroneous interpretations of Purgatory.
Therefore, attempting to equate Catholic belief in purgatory with ‘denying the resurrection of the dead’ shows you have the whole teaching wrong to begin with. You’re putting up a strawman argument. Purgatory is not denial of the resurrection, it never was and it never will be.
Please, if you want to argue with doctrine, argue over what we really teach, not what you ‘think’ we teach.
Purgatory: Only those who believe in Christ ‘go’ to Purgatory. Those who do not believe in Christ and are not ‘saved’ (in your terminology) go to hell. All those who go to Purgatory are saved and delivered and do indeed ‘rise from the dead with Christ’. And this has been taught for many centuries more than your erroneous interpretations of Purgatory.
Therefore, attempting to equate Catholic belief in purgatory with ‘denying the resurrection of the dead’ shows you have the whole teaching wrong to begin with. You’re putting up a strawman argument. Purgatory is not denial of the resurrection, it never was and it never will be.
Please, if you want to argue with doctrine, argue over what we really teach, not what you ‘think’ we teach.
E
estesbob
Guest
But those who go to purgatory do rise from the dead. So much for that thesis.
T
Tantum_ergo
Guest
Lying implies a person making a knowingly false statement. I would not ‘judge’ on that.
But consider this, Allis. By now you know that Catholic teaching is that no Catholic should receive the body and blood of Christ while in a state of mortal sin, right?
You also probably know at least one person who is “Catholic” and who does receive while in what the Church teaches is mortal sin. Mind you, I am not saying that I personally ‘judge’ the person in mortal sin, but that IF a person is, for example, divorced and remarried without an annulment and is receiving communion, that particular practice is considered sinful by the church.
Now, if you go around and say, “It isn’t really a sin to receive the Eucharist while being divorced and remarried, because MY CATHOLIC FRIEND DOES IT”. . .well, you aren’t exactly lying over the circumstance–your friend is actually doing just what you say he/she is–receiving while being divorced and remarried unlawfully. But you’ve confused somebody ‘circumventing’ a requirement into thinking that somehow means the requirement doesn’t exist–and that would be wrong.
So if some person, or some village, managed to circumvent the requirement to join the Hitler Youth, or somebody knew, or thought he knew, of cases where the requirement to join the H.J. was not enforced, that still does not mean that the NORMATIVE, the LEGAL, etc. requirement throughout Germany did not exist, because somebody somewhere was able to circumvent it. Right? Perhaps that is what happened . . .
D
Doxiemom
Guest
Back to the OP:
I have read and re-read what the Pope said:
It says that Jesus establish His Church with Peter being its head.
Those groups of people, while they are clearly Christian for they accept Jesus as Messiah and await His return, cannot be called other “churches” as there is still only One Church, that being the one established by Jesus.
While it is true they seek Truth, love the Lord,can repent of sin and thus can have entrance into Heaven, they cannot gain full truth as they reject the full communion of the Catholic Church
There is not a clear line of the office of priesthood
Personal opinion: Some non-catholic Christians have a zeal for Christ which puts alot of lukewarm catholics to shame. Far too many of my fellow cahtolics depend on that 45 minutes of Mass and never give God a second thought all week. Many of us never have picked up a Bible and read it.
Is it really easier for a catholic to enter in Heaven ? Just because our mama had us baptiszed into the Church is not enough. We have to make an effort to guard our souls. And these other Christians put many a catholic to shame.
Jesus said in Revelation that it is the lukewarm church that He will spue out of His mouth as so much vomit. He also pointed out that the 7 different churches clearly were His , which means there is only one church of Jesus Christ. What He said then never changes with time.
Hurrah for Pope Benedict 16- He has made a non-lukewarm stand and is stating that the chaos of protestantism is not useful for the salvation of souls
I have read and re-read what the Pope said:
It says that Jesus establish His Church with Peter being its head.
Those groups of people, while they are clearly Christian for they accept Jesus as Messiah and await His return, cannot be called other “churches” as there is still only One Church, that being the one established by Jesus.
While it is true they seek Truth, love the Lord,can repent of sin and thus can have entrance into Heaven, they cannot gain full truth as they reject the full communion of the Catholic Church
There is not a clear line of the office of priesthood
Personal opinion: Some non-catholic Christians have a zeal for Christ which puts alot of lukewarm catholics to shame. Far too many of my fellow cahtolics depend on that 45 minutes of Mass and never give God a second thought all week. Many of us never have picked up a Bible and read it.
Is it really easier for a catholic to enter in Heaven ? Just because our mama had us baptiszed into the Church is not enough. We have to make an effort to guard our souls. And these other Christians put many a catholic to shame.
Jesus said in Revelation that it is the lukewarm church that He will spue out of His mouth as so much vomit. He also pointed out that the 7 different churches clearly were His , which means there is only one church of Jesus Christ. What He said then never changes with time.
Hurrah for Pope Benedict 16- He has made a non-lukewarm stand and is stating that the chaos of protestantism is not useful for the salvation of souls
D
Deidre
Guest
Can someone help me here??? 
All of the news articles that I have seen on this say that the document states that Catholicism provides the “only true path to salvation.” I brought the article up on the vatican website and I can’t find that statement in there!
Am I missing something? Overlooking something? Maybe I’m just plain blind, but I can’t find it!
All of the news articles that I have seen on this say that the document states that Catholicism provides the “only true path to salvation.” I brought the article up on the vatican website and I can’t find that statement in there!
Am I missing something? Overlooking something? Maybe I’m just plain blind, but I can’t find it!
C
Clonereject1138
Guest
One word. Raffles.
G
Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
From the horse’s mouth, two links for your reading delectation:
- **1 - **vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070629_responsa-quaestiones_en.html
- **2 - **vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070629_commento-responsa_en.html
1 is what the SCDF said
**2 **is what the SCDF says that it said
It’s one thing for the SCDF to say - “We possess the whole truth”; but how does itnow that other churches don’t, perhaps in a way that is well disguised, different, yet real nonetheless ?
Even more to the point - how can the SCDF possibly know that some of the things those Churches do possess & the CC does not, are not things that the CC needs ? However “deficient” other Churches may be, there is nothing in the logic of the SCDF’s position that stops the CC being deficient in all sorts of ways. Maybe we should reform ourselves, before casting aspersions on other Churches.
As one D. Rumsfeld might have said, we need to be careful of the unknown unknowns.
G
Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
Can someone help me here???
All of the news articles that I have seen on this say that the document states that Catholicism provides the “only true path to salvation.” I brought the article up on the vatican website and I can’t find that statement in there!
Am I missing something? Overlooking something? Maybe I’m just plain blind, but I can’t find it!
Maybe that is a summary of some of the substance of the document, rather than a quotation from it 
H
holy_wood
Guest
Belivers, Are you right now free from sin? Are you free from the desire to sin. Assuming that you are human the answer to this question has to be no.
When you enter Heaven you must, you must be perfect. Cleansed of all unrightousness.
Purgatory means purification. Its not mecessarily a place. It could be instantaneous. Through Christ blood one is infused with grace and made worthy of the kingdom.
Catholics assume its a place and it takes time because of versus such as…
There are some other things that point to purgatory in scripture but that is for another thread. If you wish to start I along with other devout Catholics would be more than happy to discuss it with you.
Also we say it hurts because though our God is merciful he is also a God od justice.
You rob a bank and you may truly be sorry for the crime but you still have to give back the money to be forgiven.
You have an affair and you break it off, you still have to tell your wife to be truly repentant in the eyes of God.(for you not only went against his law but also the vows you gave on your wedding day)
Like King David who repented of his sin and lost his son(a temporal punishment), so to must you and I try to make reparations for our sin. And if not done in this life we must do so by going through Purgatory.
J
jmcrae
Guest
What on earth does this mean?
If two people disagree on something, at least one of them is wrong. Jesus promised His protection to the Catholic Church, which means that if you disagree with the Catholic Church, it’s not the Catholic Church that is wrong - it’s you.
How hard is that?
- Status