Pope Declares-Non Catholics Do Not Possess the Full Truth

[estesbob]

What on earth does this mean?

If two people disagree on something, at least one of them is wrong. Jesus promised His protection to the Catholic Church, which meanst that if you disagree with the Catholic Church, it’s not the Catholic Church that is wrong - it’s you.

How hard is that?

My sentiments exactly . I have never seen a thread so full of different posters making what appear on the surface to be profond comments but after reading them two or three times you shake your head and think “just what the heck is he talking about”?

I did note that Beliver disappeared once he realized people in purgatory did rise from the dead. i mean how could someone actually believe that the Catholic Church does not believe in the ressurection of he dead???

 

[Robert902]

Bottom line…and this is a quote from the Pope; “other Christian communities are either defective or not true churches and Catholicism provides the only true path to salvation.” So the Pope believes that if you aren’t Catholic, you will not and cannot be saved.
This was the second time in a week that Benedict has corrected what he says are erroneous interpretations of the Second Vatican Council, the 1962-1965 meetings that modernized the church. On Saturday, Benedict revived the old Latin Mass-a move cheered by Catholic traditionalists but criticized by more liberal ones as a step backward from Vatican ll.
The Pope said that Protestant and other Christian denominations are not true churches but merely ecclesial communities and therefore did not have the “means of salvation”.

That’s what the Pope says. Here’s what god’s word, the Bible says about salvation.

“There is one mediator between man and God, and that is the Christ Jesus.”
John 3:36 “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life, and he that believeth not the Son, shall not see life: but the wrath of God abideth on him.”

That’s the gospel, and the way of salvation. The choice is yours.

God Bless,
Robert

 

[anthony022071]

Sorry, it is a wrong notion. It does not match with Jonah. Jonah was saved from death when he came out from the belly of fish, he was not saved from death - “but only after he had actually died”.
If Jesus showed Sign of Jonah, then he should have saved death when he came out from the tomb he was laid in; otherwise he did not show Sign of Jonah as promised by him. I am with Jesus, so I cannot believe otherwise, sory. Please don’t mind.
Thanks

He did show the sign of Jonah. A sign points to something far greater and more important than itself. Jonah’s sign prefigured the death and resurrection of Jesus. Jonah only seemed as one who was dead,when he was in the belly of the whale, but Jesus did die,and was raised by the Father.
The belly of the whale symbolizes the abyss of earth,of death,hell.
But Jesus did enter the earth,into death,into hell,and was raised on the third day.

 

[whatevergirl]

Here is a link to an article that discusses recent comments about Protestants by the Pope.

msnbc.msn.com/id/19692094

Is the Pope saying that Protestants can’t be Christians and go to Heaven or is he reaffirming that non Catholics can be Christians and go to Heaven, but they don’t practice it as it was intended?

I heard this discussed on RR this morning, and he is in no way shape or form, stating that non Catholics will not reach salvation. The RCC has preached for a while now, that they cannot judge who will be in Heaven…

 

[Robert902]

I heard this discussed on RR this morning, and he is in no way shape or form, stating that non Catholics will not reach salvation. The RCC has preached for a while now, that they cannot judge who will be in Heaven…

Who do you believe, the Pope or RRC. Isn’t the Pope the head of your church? If you can’t trust him, why be a Catholic?

God Bless,
Robert

 

[paarsurrey]

1 Cor 15:
[16] For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised.
[17] If Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins.

Hi
I respect your religion.
Since I keep say a window or door of my mind/heart open for still more truth that may come from anywhere, I would suggest my Catholic friends to exceed in substance the arguments of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the PromisedMessiahImamMahdi for my and everybody else’s benefit.In my opinion, Paul is 100% wrong in his assertion/inference in the above quote that:

1. Jesus got killed on Cross.
2. Jesus or any other human being ever raised any literally/physically/medically dead human beings to life, if at all it were the near-dead that were raised to life.
3. Jesus himself as Paul believed was never raised from the literally/physically/medically dead; yes Jesus was only near-dead on Cross and with treatment he got cured and went to India and died a natural deathe there.
4. Jesus never ascended to heaven to sit on right hand of God.
5. Jesus never had any power for redemption of sins, or atonement of sins of human beings.
   Catholics are free to believe whatever they like; but for us they should present that with reason, rationality and logical arguments, the common language for understandings.
   Thanks

Could the Catholics please enumerate all those mysteries of Catholic Faith (with references from authenticated sources, say OTBible) that the Catholics find difficult to explain?

 

[Milliardo]

this is not the first time this guy has put his foot in his mouth, its not even the second, Don,t forget that I was around during WW2. Those teenager that belonged to those Nazi youth organizition where there by choice. They all loved Hitler

It’s forced conscription; it’s either you join or go to concentration camp. As a youth at that time, the Pope doesn’t have much of a choice, as you can see.

 

[estesbob]

this is not the first time this guy has put his foot in his mouth, its not even the second, Don,t forget that I was around during WW2. Those teenager that belonged to those Nazi youth organizition where there by choice. They all loved Hitler

So?

The Pope didnt say anythng new and expressing Core Catholic Doctrine is not "putting ones foot in the mouth"You assertoins that he was a willing member of Hitlers Youth is incorrect but more importantly it is a lame attempt on your part to derail the thread. What the Pope said is the Truth and Truth is Truth no matter who utters it.

 

[estesbob]

Hi
I respect your religion.
Since I keep say a window or door of my mind/heart open for still more truth that may come from anywhere, I would suggest my Catholic friends to exceed in substance the arguments of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the PromisedMessiahImamMahdi for my and everybody else’s benefit.In my opinion, Paul is 100% wrong in his assertion/inference in the above quote that:

1. Jesus got killed on Cross.
2. Jesus or any other human being ever raised any literally/physically/medically dead human beings to life, if at all it were the near-dead that were raised to life.
3. Jesus himself as Paul believed was never raised from the literally/physically/medically dead; yes Jesus was only near-dead on Cross and with treatment he got cured and went to India and died a natural deathe there.
4. Jesus never ascended to heaven to sit on right hand of God.
5. Jesus never had any power for redemption of sins, or atonement of sins of human beings.
   Catholics are free to believe whatever they like; but for us they should present that with reason, rationality and logical arguments, the common language for understandings.
   Thanks

Could the Catholics please enumerate all those mysteries of Catholic Faith (with references from authenticated sources, say OTBible) that the Catholics find difficult to explain?

I don’t know of anything Catholics have a difficult time explaining. The problem is that generally those who ask the question are not interested in listening to the answer.

You post shows you know as little about Catholicism as i do about Islam. The difference between us is i don’t go into Islamic Forums and display my ignorance of Islam for all to see.

 

[Allweather]

Who do you believe, the Pope or RRC. Isn’t the Pope the head of your church? If you can’t trust him, why be a Catholic?

God Bless,
Robert

Good question. The answer is, I trust the Pope.

If the Pope says that Protestants are going to have a hard time getting to Heaven, then I believe that. Matter of fact, I have ALWAYS believed that, which is one reason I became Catholic 20-some years ago.

Catholics, the Pope, or me, or anyone else, are not making a dogmatic statement that there is no way a Protestant can get to Heaven. Only God knows who gets to Heaven.

 

[AKG]

Sometimes even practicing Catholics do not “possess the full truth” as indicated by the interview with a practicing Catholic college student at the link below.

voice.paly.net/view_story.php?id=2663

We really have to do a much better job teaching an unadulterated Catholic faith to our youth.

 

[estesbob]

Sometimes even practicing Catholics do not “possess the full truth” as indicated by the interview with a practicing Catholic college student at the link below.

voice.paly.net/view_story.php?id=2663

We really have to do a much better job teaching an unadulterated Catholic faith to our youth.

Oh my-that is sad. A devout Catholic who does not have a clue as to what his faith is all about, The main difference between Catholics and Protestants is Catholics pray a lot of rosaries!!!

 

[anthony022071]

Hi
I respect your religion.
Since I keep say a window or door of my mind/heart open for still more truth that may come from anywhere, I would suggest my Catholic friends to exceed in substance the arguments of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the PromisedMessiahImamMahdi for my and everybody else’s benefit.In my opinion, Paul is 100% wrong in his assertion/inference in the above quote that:

1. Jesus got killed on Cross.
2. Jesus or any other human being ever raised any literally/physically/medically dead human beings to life, if at all it were the near-dead that were raised to life.
3. Jesus himself as Paul believed was never raised from the literally/physically/medically dead; yes Jesus was only near-dead on Cross and with treatment he got cured and went to India and died a natural deathe there.

Acts of the Apostles 2,22-24: (Peter is speaking)

“You that are Israelites,listen to what I have to say:Jesus of Nazareth,a man attested to you by God with deeds of power,wonders,and signs that God did through him among you,as you yourselves know – this man ,handed over to you according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God,you curcified and killed by the hands of those outside the law. But God raised him up,having freed him from death,because it was impossible for him to be held in its power.”

1. Jesus never ascended to heaven to sit on right hand of God.

Acts 2,32-34:

“This Jesus God raised up,and of all that of us are witnesses. Being therefore exalted at the right hand of the God,and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit,he has poured out this that you both see and hear.”

1. Jesus never had any power for redemption of sins, or atonement of sins of human beings.

Peter 3,24:

“He himself bore our sins in his body on the cross,so that,free from sins,we might live for righteousness,by his wounds,you have been healed.”
Acts 29,-32:

But Peter and the Apotles answered,“We must obey God rather than any human authority.” The God of our ancestors raised up Jesus,whom you have killed by hanging him on a tree.God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior that he might give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.And we are witnesses to these things,and so it is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey him."

Catholics are free to believe whatever they like; but for us they should present that with reason, rationality and logical arguments, the common language for understandings.
Thanks

It has been done innumerable times over,starting from the time of Peter and Paul. It was with reason,rationality and logical arguments that Paul and the early church fathers won over so many of the Greeks and Romans.

 

[whatevergirl]

Who do you believe, the Pope or RRC. Isn’t the Pope the head of your church? If you can’t trust him, why be a Catholic?

God Bless,
Robert

Who said I can’t trust him? He doesn’t decide who goes to Heaven…no more than any of us. The pope is a man. You know that, right?

 

[whatevergirl]

…and it was an early church teaching that only Catholics achieve salvation. If you have ever listened to a lecture from Pope JP2 or read any of his books on this subject–he states emphatically that only God can judge one’s soul. Not man.

 

[estesbob]

…and it was an early church teaching that only Catholics achieve salvation. If you have ever listened to a lecture from Pope JP2 or read any of his books on this subject–he states emphatically that only God can judge one’s soul. Not man.

No it wasnt . The teaching ahs always been Salvation could only be obtained via the Church, Formal membershipo, however , is not required, You need to understand that the Christ and the Church he founded are on in the same. When we say one can be saved only through the Church we are saying one can be saved only through Christ. You can not seperate the two…

 

[jmcrae]

Bottom line…and this is a quote from the Pope; “other Christian communities are either defective or not true churches and Catholicism provides the only true path to salvation.”

Christ is our salvation, and Christ established the Church with all of its core doctrines for our benefit. It is not knowing how to say the word Jesus that saves us, but rather, knowing Who Jesus is, entering into a Sacramental relationship with Him, and taking advantage of all of the gifts that He gives to us through the Church, that allows us to be saved.

So the Pope believes that if you aren’t Catholic, you will not and cannot be saved.

Not necessarily. In the same way that a person who has never heard the name Jesus could become conscious of a great and loving Person who is gently pointing him towards a life of moral goodness and hope, so also, someone who has never heard of the Church or does not have the ability to enter it during this lifetime could in fact be part of the Church, by desire, or by the fact that, if they had ever heard of it, they would most certainly have joined it.

Obviously, those who know the Church and refuse to become members of it are in a totally different situation, just as those who know who Jesus is but refuse to acknowledge Him as their Lord and Saviour will also not be saved.

The Pope said that Protestant and other Christian denominations are not true churches but merely ecclesial communities and therefore did not have the “means of salvation”.

Absolutely; that is true. Now you know how the pagans feel when we tell them that without Jesus, they too, do not have the means of salvation.

“There is one mediator between man and God, and that is the Christ Jesus.”
John 3:36 “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life, and he that believeth not the Son, shall not see life: but the wrath of God abideth on him.”

If we believe in Jesus Christ - if we understand that there is no other mediator (nobody else who can die for our sins on the Cross), then ought we not to obey Him and become members of His Church? Should we not humbly accept whatever intercession from other people that they happen to offer to us, rather than spurn it for reasons of pride, to make that situation happen, so that we can come into a Sacramental relationship with Jesus Christ, be members of His Church, and be able to be saved?

 

[whatevergirl]

No it wasnt . The teaching ahs always been Salvation could only be obtained via the Church, Formal membershipo, however , is not required, You need to understand that the Christ and the Church he founded are on in the same. When we say one can be saved only through the Church we are saying one can be saved only through Christ. You can not seperate the two…

One does not have to follow Catholic doctrine to be saved. Frankly, if God wants to show mercy to an atheist…it is His choice. So…we simply cannot guesstimate this…and the Church does not teach that salvation is only achieved through following the Church. I have a feeling that the RCC meant…following in the sense of being a Roman Catholic (member). I agree that Christ and His Church, are one in the same–but when we speak of the one True Church–most people elude to actual denomintations.

 

[whatevergirl]

One does not have to follow Catholic doctrine to be saved. I have a feeling that the RCC meant…following in the sense of being a Roman Catholic (member). I agree that Christ and His Church, are one in the same–but when we speak of the one True Church–most people elude to actual denomintations.

 

[Elzee]

Sometimes even practicing Catholics do not “possess the full truth” as indicated by the interview with a practicing Catholic college student at the link below.

voice.paly.net/view_story.php?id=2663

We really have to do a much better job teaching an unadulterated Catholic faith to our youth.

What the heck kind of name for a Catholic Church is “Companions on a Journey”? Geesh. And your right - this is a sad testament to the catechesis our Catholics are receiving.