Pope Declares-Non Catholics Do Not Possess the Full Truth

[estesbob]

I wish I could believe in a Purgatory, like going to a car-wash prior to heaven? LOL, Catholics are funny. It’s pretty apparent that this Pope is showing his arrogance.
Jesus is the mediator, not some old man in Rome.
Being raised a “cradle Catholic”. I know the superstitions of the Catholic church. Magic brown clothes that assure your way to heaven. Mary a Goddess. Yes, she was a Virgin when Christ was born. Now some want to make her equal to Our Lord himself. Patron Saints for anything you want. Indulgences- exploitation of the peasants. God forgive the Catholic church for it’s nonsense.
Eating meat on Friday’s in Lent gonna send you to hell. Many of the Blasphemous teachings of the church will someday have to answer to God.

I am in awe that one person can show so much ingorance in a two paragraph post… This is one of those rare gems you run across occasionally in CAF-somethng so totally devoid of any rational thought you find yourself , instead of being mad, laughing your head off.

 

[sosayi1960]

You have to laugh, no real Christian could believe in all that Papal Bull.

 

[jmcrae]

I wish I could believe in a Purgatory, like going to a car-wash prior to heaven?

If someone you highly respected asked you for a ride, wouldn’t you want to clean your car out first, before picking them up? Or would you make them sit on your old hamburger wrappers and drink cups, but still expect them to treat you as their friend?

LOL, Catholics are funny. It’s pretty apparent that this Pope is showing his arrogance.
Jesus is the mediator, not some old man in Rome.

Jesus is definitely the one Mediator - no one else - which is exactly why it would be most prudent to follow the chain of command that He has set in place over His church, beginning in John 21:15-19 and in an unbroken Succession until the present day.

Being raised a “cradle Catholic”. I know the superstitions of the Catholic church. Magic brown clothes that assure your way to heaven.

And being enrolled by a priest into the Brown Scapular, and saying the prayers that go with it is different than praying the Sinner’s Prayer with a Protetsant clergyman and signing the back of a Four Spiritual Laws tract, because …?

Mary a Goddess.

Yes, she was a Virgin when Christ was born. Now some want to make her equal to Our Lord himself. Patron Saints for anything you want.

They are helpers, not gods. Have you ever called the auto club to come and tow your car or fix a flat tire? [sarcasm on] YOU BAD PERSON, YOU!! :tsktsk: You should have prayed to Jesus, and expected the tire or the car to miraculously fix itself - didn’t you know that relying on human help is the same thing as worshipping them as a god? :tsktsk: [/sarcasm off]

Indulgences- exploitation of the peasants.

You have absolutely no clue what an Indulgence is, have you?

 

[Geocacher]

I first saw mention of this over HERE since I did not see this thread until now. The Catholic Church would have to re-affirm itself, in it’s position of things, to hold to it’s One True Church beliefs.

 

[maisua]

This thread has been amazing with so many having gotten worked up over a statement that represents NOTHING NEW.

In some respects, the statement is positive for us who aare members of ‘Christian communities’ in that B-16 acknowledges “…these separated churches and Communities, though we believe they suffer from defects, are deprived neither of significance nor importance in the mystery of salvation. In fact the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as instruments of salvation…………….” Perhaps this ssentiment is part of Lumen—I don’t know—but certainly, the CC crowd ain’t worse off from the Vatican’s perspective than it was a week ago. I suspect that even RCs understand that being “instruments of salvation…………….” is tough for both of us.

 

[estesbob]

You have absolutely no clue what an Indulgence is, have you?

Actually he doesnt have a clue about much of anything concerning Catholicism. Thus far we have gotten the usual cut n paste jobs from the usual anti-catholic sites. However these discussions are good in two ways-by being challenged about our Faith it forces us to learn how to better express our faith to others and the Protestant poster learns that everything he has been told about Catholics ain’t necessarily so. One wonders if the dialogue we are seeing take place all over the world becuase of the Popes comments is exactly what he intiended?

 

[whatevergirl]

For Catholics, the Pope is head of the one and only true church of Jesus Christ, the Catholic church He is the mediator with God if you are a Catholic, and when he say’s that outside the church there is no salvation, he is saying that if you are not a Catholic, there is no salvation. You’re going to hell!

Vatican II did not withdraw the infallible dogma “outside the church there is no salvation.” In fact Vatican II’s document Lumen Gentium reaffirms this dogma, and it’s document Dignitatis Humanae teaches that Catholicism is the only true religion.

Sure I know that the Pope is a man, but so is Jesus. There’s a problem here though. The Bible say’s that “there is one mediator between man and God, and that is the Christ Jesus.” Personally I have a problem with the Pope being a mediator, because the Bible tells me that there is only one.

God Bless,
Robert

The Pope really isn’t a mediator…in the sense that you think. He is a messenger, and to me, a Catholic…I view him as having the authority to interpret Scripture (without a thousand different interpretations being thrown my way) and to hand down moral codes (The CCC) as a helper…for Christ. As you know, we view him as the Successor to Peter…our first Pope, so to speak. I think that where the debate comes in is that we shouldn’t be worshipping a man (we don’t) we shouldn’t have two mediators…Jesus and the Pope. No mistake about it–Jesus is the mediator between the Father, and mankind. He is the Savior of the World. Our popes serve as messengers of that word…who are grand teachers and shepherds to us all. We can learn so very much from a person who marries the Church, and devotes his life to tending his flock. Just my 2 cents. (and thanks for yours)

 

[Lucania]

He is the mediator with God if you are a Catholic
Sure I know that the Pope is a man, but so is Jesus. There’s a problem here though. The Bible say’s that “there is one mediator between man and God, and that is the Christ Jesus.” Personally I have a problem with the Pope being a mediator, because the Bible tells me that there is only one.
God Bless,
Robert

My friend, you have been duped if you really believe that we Catholics believe that the Holy Father (Pope) is a mediator between Man & God. That is not what we believe. What say you now?

 

[believers]

Heaven is heaven. It has been described as a “mansion.” Purgatory is the mud-room for that mansion. Heaven has also been described as a “throne-room.” Purgatory is the antechamber of the throne-room. Both mud-rooms and antechambers are where we go to shed our dirty street clothes before being able to greet our Lord. “Nothing unclean shall enter Heaven.”

I have no clue where you’re getting your description of Heaven. May I remind you that purgatory IS NOT in the Bible. There isn’t ONE verse that mentions purgatory… NOT ONE.

 

[believers]

Do you believe that we go backwards in time and resurrect with Jesus in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea? Or what are you trying to say, here?

Obviously, people who go to Purgatory are with Jesus, since it is Jesus who is cleansing and healing their sin-wounds.

Here’s what I’m saying… Because Jesus has risen… we are risen too. Jesus is the Head, we are the Body. We’ve risen. His blood paid the price. We’re washed in His blood through faith. When we die, we go to Heaven. The Word of God is clear that we must believe this to be true otherwise our belief and faith were in vain.

 

[believers]

Purgatory is the gate of Heaven. We can’t get in without going through the gate. Remember what happened to the guy in the parable, who came in through the window and didn’t get his wedding garment?

Purgatory is where we pick up our “wedding garments.”

Purgatory is not the gate. I certainly hope you guys don’t believe that. Anyone believing that is like a thief and robber.

Jhn 10:7
Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

Jhn 10:9
I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Jhn 10:1
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

 

[believers]

Yes, it is the first part of Heaven, before we arrive at the Beatific Vision.

And the Father occupies all space and all time - Heaven is not a “place” but rather, a state of being.

Jesus is where the Father is, and He also occupies all space and all time.

Col 2:8
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

 

[believers]

You beleive this, I assume, based on your personal interpertation of scripture. And it appears that you sole objection to Purgatory is your personal interperation of what being with the Risen with the Lord means. Where did you get the Authority to interpert Scriptue for the rest of us.?

believers:

If you want to believe you descend into purgatory and are not RISEN WITH the Lord, that’s your choice.

My authority comes from the fact that I am a servant of Jesus Christ. I became His servant when I professed Him Lord and Savior of my life. I have crucified my “old man” and have been born-again of the Spirit. My life is no longer my own but Christ living in me.

Gal 2:20
****I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Mar 13:34
[For the Son of man is] as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.

Luk 4:4
And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

2Ti 3:15
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Psa 119:105
Thy word [is] a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

 

[estesbob]

Here’s what I’m saying… Because Jesus has risen… we are risen too. Jesus is the Head, we are the Body. We’ve risen. His blood paid the price. We’re washed in His blood through faith. When we die, we go to Heaven. The Word of God is clear that we must believe this to be true otherwise our belief and faith were in vain.

A very simplisitc and erroneous view of what is necessary for salvation BUT even if we accept your ***personal ***interpertation of Scripture nothing you say above precludess there being a Purgatory,

 

[estesbob]

My authority comes from the fact that I am a servant of Jesus Christ. I became His servant when I professed Him Lord and Savior of my life. I have crucified my “old man” and have been born-again of the Spirit. My life is no longer my own but Christ living in me.

Gal 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Mar 13:34
[For the Son of man is] as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.

Luk 4:4
And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

2Ti 3:15
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Psa 119:105
Thy word [is] a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

What does any of this have to do with Purgatory?
In fact what does any of this have to do with anyting?

 

[estesbob]

My authority comes from the fact that I am a servant of Jesus Christ. I became His servant when I professed Him Lord and Savior of my life. I have crucified my “old man” and have been born-again of the Spirit. My life is no longer my own but Christ living in me.

h.

OH BOY!!! VERSE WARS!!

O]n this rock I will build my Church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven" (Matt. 16:18-19).

“*f he refuses to listen even to the Church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” (Matt. 18:15-18).

“He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me” (Luke 10:16).

“If I boast a little too much of our authority, which the Lord gave for building you up and not for destroying you, I shall not be put to shame” (1 Cor. 10:8).

“I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you” (1 Cor. 11:2).

“[W]hen you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers” (1 Thess. 2:13).

“So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter” (2 Thess. 2:15).

"f I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth" (1 Tim. 3:14-15).*

 

[Dulcimer]

How about this one, guys: “No one can say Christ is Lord without the Holy Spirit…”?

(Instead of warring with each other–and using Scripture to do it-- why not find where you have common ground and agree to disagree on the rest?)

hides Peace-maker hat

Okay, as you were…

 

[estesbob]

How about this one, guys: “No one can say Christ is Lord without the Holy Spirit…”?

(Instead of warring with each other–and using Scripture to do it-- why not find where you have common ground and agree to disagree on the rest?)

hides Peace-maker hat

Okay, as you were…

There would be no need to have these forums if we did that.

 

[buffalo]

this is not the first time this guy has put his foot in his mouth, its not even the second, Don,t forget that I was around during WW2. Those teenager that belonged to those Nazi youth organizition where there by choice. They all loved Hitler

Hitler youth was made mandatory around 1939.

 

[buffalo]

It"s your pope that was not reaching out in love !

Sometimes when one has to tell the complete truth the hearers take offence. True Christian charity demands fraternal correction and the Pope must spread the truth.

It is:

Truth with Love

not Love without truth
nor truth without love.