T
TMC
Guest
If that happens, the Church will adapt to it.
Things are changing, but not in a “sky is falling” way. The Church has always been in a process of growth and change. That continues and will continue.
- Status
Things are changing, but not in a “sky is falling” way. The Church has always been in a process of growth and change. That continues and will continue.
J
JM3
Guest
Irrelevant
[1st Vatican](http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Councils/ecum20.htm#Chapter 4. On the infallible teaching authority of the Roman pontiff)
SESSION 4 : 18 July 1870
Chapter 3
2. Wherefore we teach and declare that,
by divine ordinance,
the Roman church possesses a pre-eminence of ordinary power over every other church, and that
this jurisdictional power of the Roman pontiff is both
episcopal and
immediate.
Both clergy and faithful,
of whatever rite and dignity,
both singly and collectively,
are bound to submit to this power by the duty of hierarchical subordination and true obedience, and this
not only in matters concerning faith and morals,
but also in those which regard the discipline and government of the church throughout the world.
Lumen Gentium
25… Bishops, teaching in communion with the Roman Pontiff, are to be respected by all as witnesses to divine and Catholic truth. In matters of faith and morals, the bishops speak in the name of Christ and the faithful are to accept their teaching and adhere to it with a religious assent. This religious submission of mind and will must be shown in a special way to the authentic magisterium of the Roman Pontiff, even when he is not speaking ex cathedra; that is, it must be shown in such a way that his supreme magisterium is acknowledged with reverence, the judgments made by him are sincerely adhered to, according to his manifest mind and will.
Y
Yeoman
Guest
One Parish priest here published purported messages from Our Lady from there weekly in the bulletin and had a publication about it in the back of the Church.
Being a skeptic on that, that always bothered me, but as it wasn’t may Parish, I let it pass.
T
TMC
Guest
Not sure what confuses you in my statement. The suggestion was made that restorationists are the fastest growing part of the Church, and it is often suggested that restorationists are the future of the Church. I am merely pointing out that they are actually a tiny minority, and that a few hundred vocations in the course of a generation, while nice, are not a significant portion of the Church.
J
JimR-OCDS
Guest
Issa87
.
Jim
.
This accusation was put down years ago by the very Bishops who were at Vatican II, for there is no truth whatsoever in it.
Jim
J
JimR-OCDS
Guest
Issa87;
There is no truth whatsoever that protestants had any influence on the doctrines or liturgical changes made at Vatican II.
Jim
This accusation against the Novus Ordo was made my SSPX and debunked by Pope Benedict XVI.
There is no truth whatsoever that protestants had any influence on the doctrines or liturgical changes made at Vatican II.
Jim
M
Mongo
Guest
You would think the church didn’t have theSpirit until 50 years ago. His disparaging of restorationist orders and asceticism is contrary to the whole tradition of the Church going back atleast 1700 years. St. Anthony, Pachomius, the Cappadocian fathers, St. John Cassian, St. Benedict St Gregory the great, and the other fathers including the restorationists like St Francis and St John of the cross would be surprised to see where the Church has gone.
P
pnewton
Guest
I doubt they would believe everything on the internet they read or engage in this constant gossip about the Pope.
T
TMC
Guest
Sorry, less than 20, not 2. But still way less than one tenth of one percent of the priests and religious in the world. It may be significant for their community, but my point is that it is not a significant portion of the Church.
7
7_Sorrows
Guest
I noticed he used his “favorite” word again - rigidity!
T
twf
Guest
I say this not tongue in cheek - it honestly confuses and bothers me… there seems to be infinite mercy and forebearance for sexual sinners, but zero patience or mercy for “rigid” Catholics.
J
JimR-OCDS
Guest
Well it was the same for Jesus.I say this not tongue in cheek - it honestly confuses and bothers me… there seems to be infinite mercy and forebearance for sexual sinners, but zero patience or mercy for “rigid” Catholics.
The rigid brought the woman caught in adultery, who by law, should’ve been stoned to death.
Jesus showed her mercy and forgiveness which upset the status quo.
Pope Francis is following Jesus.
Jim
E
edwayne
Guest
I also am confused over the term ‘rigidity’ that is constantly used by the pope. This is translated as ‘rigid’ in English, but does it carry the same connotation in the original language in which it was spoken in this context? Maybe it does, but I’m only asking because quite often, even within the same speech, the Pope can seem ‘rigidly’ inflexible on many other issues, whether it is abortion, the Italian mafia and their blood money, transgender issues (and ideological colonization by imposing), oppression of the poor, human trafficking, etc., … solidly black and white on these issues – and rightly so. The often cited example of the Pharisee’s rigidity (for example, with regard to adultery), Jesus appears to point out the rigid interpretation of the commandment by some by stating that ‘You have heard it said of old…’ But then he continues with ‘but I say to you…’ In other words, the rigid interpretation of the commandment could lead one to say, “Hey, I have not actually slept with another man’s wife, so I’m exonerated of any guilt against this commandment.” Yet Jesus raises the bar to say that if one merely looks upon a woman with lust, he has already committed adultery in his heart. So depending on how one defines the term, one could argue that the Pharisees were more rigid, but that Jesus was much more rigorous. Just a thought.
T
Tantum_ergo
Guest
Where is the ‘mercy’ for those whose conscience directs them to hold to established truths and to things like the EF, that is, approved long-standing teachings and practices of the Church?
Why are the epithets of ‘rigid’ thrown at them? The ‘psychoanalysis’ and the implication of nothing but ‘evil thoughts’ that must be in their hearts?
Where is the pastoral accompaniment here? The calls for understanding, for ‘meeting them where they are?’
Cue the crickets chirping. The silence is deafening.
I’m all for mercy but it seems that there is a very strong double-standard out there that decrees that mercy is only for those who meet a pre-determined standard.
P
Pulvis
Guest
Jim, I understand exactly what you are saying, but the thing that bugs me is that the Pharisees were wrong not for following the law of Moses, but for heaping more requirements on top of the Law and creating their own interpretation of those laws to benefit themselves.
Our Lord instructed His followers to observe everything that the Pharisees taught, but not to follow their actions!
" [3] All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not; for they say, and do not." St. Matthew 23. DRBO.ORG
That is a huge difference!
And there is a huge difference between a conservative or traditional Catholic who holds to all that the Church has taught throughout the ages and a Pharisee. It is disingenuous to equate the two as the same.
Pax
F
Fuerza
Guest
I don’t think that those are quite the same. Are there traditional Catholics today calling for the executions of adulterers? In our case, our current “crime” is calling for marriage to be upheld in the manner defined by Christ Himself. Note also, that Jesus does not tell the woman, “I pardon you, now go and continue sinning as much as you like”. He tells her to “go and sin no more”. Mercy is obviously the goal, but it should in no way involve encouraging one to continue in their sins. To put the two on the same level is a bit misleading.
J
JimR-OCDS
Guest
The law of Moses was that those caught in adultery, must be stoned to death.
The Pharisees where following the letter of the law.
Jim
- Status