Pope expels German 'luxury bishop'

[manualman]

It’s awfully hard to tell if we’ve got actual facts on this one, IMO. Especially in this era of shameless media smear. From the light reading on the subject, the complex is not merely the bishop’s personal residence, but appears to include a variety of diocesan functions: convent, chapel. Furthermore, the article stipulates that it is the German historic preservation regulations that created much of the cost over-runs. As someone in the construction / design field, I can definitely relate to the fact that regulators can double costs to no actual benefit when they get a mind to. It further goes on to say that this bishop stated that his desire to construct a building that would endure for centuries, rather than the disposable 30 year lifespan so much is built for these days.

He could be as bad as the press says he is. But I can’t see how to get to that conclusion from the facts presented. I have a suspicious worry that this could arise from modern folks notion that worship should be conducted in a leaky shack while simultaneously not hardly blinking before spending $500 million on a football stadium. A structure that includes the bishop’s residence, a convent and a chapel for $30million? Hardly gold plated by today’s construction cost standards (depending on how badly dilapidated it was). I wonder how much Mother Angelica’s Arkansas convent complex and chapel cost?

Where is the outrage when the CEO of a publicly held corporation buys first class tickets instead of coach when attending a conference halfway across the world? Conclusion: businessmen are important while bishops are a mere curiosity.

Again, he could be way out of line. It’s just hard for me to tell the difference between a bishop with wacky priorities and a public with similarly wacky priorities.

 

[pnewton]

I read about this matter, superficially, a week or two ago. It seems that the money was spent remodeling or upgrading a very historic structure.

$2000 bathtub? Why is anybody still using a bathtub?

To get clean.

 

[99th_Monkey]

I read about this matter, superficially, a week or two ago. It seems that the money was spent remodeling or upgrading a very historic structure.

$2000 bathtub? Why is anybody still using a bathtub?

I don’t think we have all the facts; neither does the Vatican.

I’m pretty sure that they have more facts than we do.

 

[99th_Monkey]

Reading about the extravagance of this man, I don’t think anyone would need to lie about him, to make him look bad. He is a walking disaster and a reminder of all that is worst in the church. How many potential converts and lapsed Catholics have been further alienated by this man? In this age of instant global communication, we cannot have men like this in positions of authority. He has not only scandalized his own archdiocese, but most of the world.

Agreed.

 

[LiberalPrincess]

Francis means business!

Love that Pope Francis is about simplicity and humbleness. Hopefully this will serve a warning to others in the church living in opulence to get off their golden thrones and live humbly.

 

[Origen52]

Where is the outrage when the CEO of a publicly held corporation buys first class tickets instead of coach when attending a conference halfway across the world? Conclusion: businessmen are important while bishops are a mere curiosity.

Again, he could be way out of line. It’s just hard for me to tell the difference between a bishop with wacky priorities and a public with similarly wacky priorities.

CEOs of publicly held corporations don’t claim to be followers of Christ.

Bishops on the other hand:
“By virtue of his consecration and in a sacramental way, the Bishop is the embodiment of Christ and the Gospel message.”
catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=898
.

Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. Luke 12:33 This is he, whom they claim to embody.

 

[CatholicSheila]

I read about this matter, superficially, a week or two ago. It seems that the money was spent remodeling or upgrading a very historic structure.

$2000 bathtub? Why is anybody still using a bathtub?

I’ve never heard of a house that doesn’t have a bathtub. A unit or apartment maybe, but not a house.

 

[amrin]

It would be weird if Pope Francis who has been advocating for a poor Church would let this situation go by.

 

[Tsuwano]

I think the proper response to this news is to pray for the errant bishop and his diocese. If the facts of this scandal add up and the bishop wandered away from the Gospel value of simplicity, then I pray that this separation from his diocese will bring him back to a proper perspective of his role and the use of money in the activities of the Church.

 

[bilop]

This is certainly an appropriate move. It is, however, a little disconcerting that the Vatican can act so quickly on a matter of poor judgement, and yet be so slow to act when priests and bishops teach outright heresy. Maybe Pope Francis will speed up the train there too.

God Bless

 

[Origen52]

I’ve never heard of a house that doesn’t have a bathtub. A unit or apartment maybe, but not a house.

In Toronto some, maybe many, but I’ve seen several, new condos only have those large, multi-head walk in showers. Just FYI.

 

[clem456]

Reading about the extravagance of this man, I don’t think anyone would need to lie about him, to make him look bad. He is a walking disaster and a reminder of all that is worst in the church. How many potential converts and lapsed Catholics have been further alienated by this man? In this age of instant global communication, we cannot have men like this in positions of authority. He has not only scandalized his own archdiocese, but most of the world.

Yes we should pray for the bishop.

6 “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come!

 

[manualman]

CEOs of publicly held corporations don’t claim to be followers of Christ.

No, they claim to be working for the best interest of shareholders. When they fly first class (or private jet for that matter), they justify it by claiming that arrival at the destination rested allows them to effectively conduct the important business of the shareholders. In general, society buys that and gives them a pass on it.

But that same society considers it a disgrace that a successor to the apostles would enjoy a similar benefit. I tend to agree that a bishop ought not live in greater luxury than his flock, but I think the outrage for the bishop’s luxury coaxial with simultaneous complacency for spoiled CEOs (putatively working on behalf of others) says more about the problematic relative values of our society than those of said bishop.

From the eternal perspective, the bishop’s work is rather more important than the CEO’s, no? One can say that a bishop ought to live humbly, but it’s easy to say what somebody’s ELSE’s virtue should look like. It’s harder to examine problems in our own values and priorities. I suspect we’re spoiled by JPII, Mother Theresa, B16, Padre Pio and other modern holy people who have made us forget that religious leaders are people like us. Do we have a “right” to expect others to be saints when we ourselves are so lacking?

 

[Godric2]

Even if we do not have all the facts, and even if the Vatican does not have all the facts there have to be times when the Church or the Holy Father acts to save embarrasment to the Church and the people of God. Sometimes a person has to be suspend or removed from office as a ‘neutral’ act - to diffuse a problematic situation.

I still use a bath tub by the way - but not an expensive one!

Re-membering your baptism

 

[TheJazzuit]

This is certainly an appropriate move. It is, however, a little disconcerting that the Vatican can act so quickly on a matter of poor judgement, and yet be so slow to act when priests and bishops teach outright heresy. Maybe Pope Francis will speed up the train there too.

God Bless

Some folks sure like to invoke “heresy” when someone makes a statement that seems to contradict their point of view. Don’t we think it’s time to stop throwing the term around as a means of judgement and focus rather on the content and CONTEXT of the comments in question? Having a diverse range of thought within the church is a good thing, on balance. There are very few things in the realms of modern thought that would actually be considered “heretical” by any sort of rigorous intellectual analysis.

 

[tafan]

Reading about the extravagance of this man, I don’t think anyone would need to lie about him, to make him look bad. He is a walking disaster and a reminder of all that is worst in the church. How many potential converts and lapsed Catholics have been further alienated by this man? In this age of instant global communication, we cannot have men like this in positions of authority. He has not only scandalized his own archdiocese, but most of the world.

From the form rules:

You may not make disparaging remarks about:

Vatican II
Clergy (deacons, priests and bishops) of any group

I do not know the details and prefer to leave it all in the hands of the Holy Father. But there are certainly lies being told about this man, IMO. Do they need to be told to make him look bad? I don’t know, but they are, so they must think it necessary. For example, my understanding is the 42 million is for an to a 10 building complex of which his actual residence is one apartment.
Now the Pope has suspended him temporarily pending an investigation; for all we know this is the Holy Father’s only choice given the horrible media, and it does not necessarily reflect on the Bishop’s behavior in this case.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I think that Pope Francis is a man with a low tolerance for extravagance on the part of the clergy. While I am no longer a practicing Catholic, I’m pulling for him…this type of thing has always bothered me and, I suspect, many others’

I am hearing many positive reactions to the Pope from the non-Catholics I know.

No man, Pope or not, can shake me from my Catholic faith. I have a great deal of respect for the intellects of our two previous Popes. Each Pope has his personal style ripe for when God is ready to tap it.

Hopefully people are beginning to realize the true teachings of the Church.

 

[Rotkirch]

Why doesn’t any one talk about the prelude? A “conservative” bishop (well, after a german scale) are sent to a progressive and liberal diocese and get the whole gay lobby to attack especially after he fires a priest who been involved in a gay marriage. The german newspaper Der spiegel have been attacking the bishop in over three years with help of the organisation ‘Wir sind kirche.’ The economy thing is just one of the latest attacks from media and the progressive catholics.

It costs money to fix upp properties. There isn’t something new with that. Why didn’t the media and the pope say something about the €39 millions fix up in Rottenburg? Or why doesn’t the pope say anything about Cardinal Reinhard Marx, one of the eight in pope Francis council, who have a wage on €11 500/month + a BMW 730 with driver + free housing?

The situation is very complex. For everyone who wants to know more they can read on the german speaking wikipedia. de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz-Peter_Tebartz-van_Elst

Things is not as simple that media tries to point out. Don’t let us be that starry-eyed.

 

[SuperLuigi]

I think that Pope Francis is a man with a low tolerance for extravagance on the part of the clergy. While I am no longer a practicing Catholic, I’m pulling for him…this type of thing has always bothered me and, I suspect, many others’

I am hearing many positive reactions to the Pope from the non-Catholics I know.

I hope that you’ll consider returning to the Faith, oldcelt.

 

[anon36907098]

Why doesn’t any one talk about the prelude? A “conservative” bishop (well, after a german scale) are sent to a progressive and liberal diocese and get the whole gay lobby to attack especially after he fires a priest who been involved in a gay marriage. The german newspaper Der spiegel have been attacking the bishop in over three years with help of the organisation ‘Wir sind kirche.’ The economy thing is just one of the latest attacks from media and the progressive catholics. …]

Things is not as simple that media tries to point out. Don’t let us be that starry-eyed.

Thank you for these clear words, Rotkirch. It is true that the core of the problem is a political fight inside the diocese and the German church.

Recently, the dean of Frankfurt Cathedral has published a letter in which he attacks the pope in a strong way. He blames him not to be able to remove the bishop. Then he declares the pope’s decision as dubious.

At the same time he emphasizes something which shows the truth about his motivation: He says that the bishop would be an essential part of a fight about the theological way inside the German church and that the pope’s decision would show that that fight hasn’t reached its end yet.

The bishop did some mistakes. Perhaps he went too far an lied to the press. But there is a lobby in the diocese which has been waiting all the time to dismiss the bishop.

We have to wait for the examination result. Till then the bishop has to be seem as innocent and we shouldn’t help the enemies of the church in adopting their opinion.

Patience is what we should have here. We also have to accept that van-Elst is still bishop. The pope hasn’t dissmissed him. We should trust the holy father (as opposed to the bishop’s enemies).