Pope falls foul of German hosts by shunning seat belt

[Tenofovir]

But the Pope is 84 years old… An incident like that could be much more harmful on the Pope than it would a middle aged person such as myself. That is unless the Pope’s cabin had airbags.

BTW, does the pope-mobile have airbags…? If not we should be urging for that too, just in case the Pope forgets to buckle-up again.

Airbags are not as good as seat belts. But again note that parade floats do not require the use of belts - I haven’t been to a parade for a long time - but I don’t ever recall people wearing restraining devices atop of those.

 

[HailHolyQueen90]

Seatbelt charges against Pope Benedict XVI dropped

"BERLIN — Pope Benedict XVI can cross an outstanding charge of failing to use a seatbelt from his list of worries.

The southern German city of Freiburg on Wednesday (Nov. 30) threw out charges against the pontiff for riding in his popemobile without a seatbelt during a September visit."

washingtonpost.com/national/on-faith/categories-c-i/2011/11/30/gIQAYjRiDO_story.html

That was a close one!

 

[Catholic90]

I guess people have free will, right?

Free will to accept or reject God.

Free will to get thrown from a moving vehicle and run over.

Free will to have one’s head introduced to the windshield or pavement.

Free will to make lots of decisions — some smart, some not so smart. Some will only learn the hard way. Unfortunately.

Speaking as one who was in a serious car accident, I fully support wearing seatbelts. Without those belts, I would likely not be here today - or I might be here, but not fully intact physically or mentally, and I would be burden to my elderly parents and my teenage children.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Seatbelt charges against Pope Benedict XVI dropped

"BERLIN — Pope Benedict XVI can cross an outstanding charge of failing to use a seatbelt from his list of worries.

The southern German city of Freiburg on Wednesday (Nov. 30) threw out charges against the pontiff for riding in his popemobile without a seatbelt during a September visit."

washingtonpost.com/national/on-faith/categories-c-i/2011/11/30/gIQAYjRiDO_story.html

That was a close one!

I love Law !!!
The street was closed for traffic so there will be no fine !!!
I siply love Law !!! There is always a way out !!!

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

A person with a 5th grade knowlege of electronics can disable the bell…not really that hard.

And you do realize that seat belt law for adults is NOT universal and that there are still places in America where it is leagal for driving adult not to wear a seat belt?

5th grade of electronics means a Master in Electronics in University? Do you have it ? So you wer goind to switch off the beep ! Boy, you want to die !!! You will be done !!! See you in Heaven…

Tell you: there are states in the USA where you can drive motorcycles without helmet! that is faster !!! These States are at the level of the most primitive countries where such a practice is allowed…

But you are in a State where seat belts are compulsory? Would you mind to tellme whether you violated every other law of the state? Or is it at your whim?

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Greetings Pfaffenhoffen,

Then I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

And no you have missed my points yet again. I am done with this conversation between you and I, the main reason being is I do not want to move into a point of being annoyed and uncharitable with you.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

OK, no problem. Whatever you please.
But please, dont pity me. I do not need that.
I get offended when, where, and to whom I want. It is not whatever you may say that will hurt me. It is what I want.
So feel free to do whatever you want.
By the way, If this helps, am not german. And by the way, useless to remember Hitle’s History. I know better than you. You do not know but All german students know by heart hte WW II history and the nazi crimes. It is a crime to wear any nazi icons or images or in public show any sign or reverence towards nazism. It is a crime to deny the Holocaust.
And I recognize (as all germans do) that it was one of the most tragic violences in the history of humanity, against humanity and, let’s not forget, against the german people (let’s remember stauffenberg and the anti-nazi heroes).

I wish every nation would recognize its own dark history !!!, which oftend does not happen. It often happens that one throws stones to the neigbors glass roofs frogeting his own’s

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Airbags are not as good as seat belts. But again note that parade floats do not require the use of belts - I haven’t been to a parade for a long time - but I don’t ever recall people wearing restraining devices atop of those.

I think they could put a scaffold that would sustain the Holy father say, up to the waist. Then, 2 seat belts. Then he would be much mor confortable to use both hands. He could even be seated in a high chair.

In this way, it is unconfortable: one hand in the rail and another hand waiving and the curves, no matter what…

I think the occasion will give Mercedes and BMW engineers an idea on how to build a better Popemobile.

I think I am going to write to them…

 

[purplesunshine]

5th grade of electronics means a Master in Electronics in University? Do you have it ? So you wer goind to switch off the beep ! Boy, you want to die !!! You will be done !!! See you in Heaven…

Tell you: there are states in the USA where you can drive motorcycles without helmet! that is faster !!! These States are at the level of the most primitive countries where such a practice is allowed…

But you are in a State where seat belts are compulsory? Would you mind to tellme whether you violated every other law of the state? Or is it at your whim?

I dont live in a communist nanny state that requires concenting adults to wear seatbelts.

It IS easy to disable the seatbelt bell. Its called the fuse to which you simply look at the diagram.

I choose …MY CHOICE…to wear a seatbelt. But I also respect the choice of my five friends who dont wear one.
1-whose friend was killed by a seat belt in a low speed colision
2-my friend who lost his near full term sister in a low speed colision due to the seatbelt, (and his mother.)
3-my friend’s aunt who lived ONLY because she didnt wear a belt when she was t-boned on a highway.
4-my friends g-pa who survived only because he wasnt wearing a belt in a drivers side collision.
5-a local garbage man whos truck caught fire due to spontaneous combustion and was thrown through the windshield when he slammed on his breaks. The truck exploded seconds later. He did not think he would survive but had given his life so no families in their homes would die. Had he been wearing his seat belt he would of.

And alll of the fatalities that I know of first hand include people who died with seatbelts who would of died anyway.

I believe it is a free choice not the job of the government or hyperactive people with sob stories.

 

[LemonAndLime]

I guess people have free will, right?

Free will to accept or reject God.

Free will to get thrown from a moving vehicle and run over.

Free will to have one’s head introduced to the windshield or pavement.

Free will to make lots of decisions — some smart, some not so smart. Some will only learn the hard way. Unfortunately.

Speaking as one who was in a serious car accident, I fully support wearing seatbelts. Without those belts, I would likely not be here today - or I might be here, but not fully intact physically or mentally, and I would be burden to my elderly parents and my teenage children.

I think some people throw their toys out of the pram and whine about how “I have a choice, no one can tell me what to do!” Which is, to be honest, what I used to be like as a young teenager trying to enforce my own independence. However, what it comes down to us, much as you might dislike being told what to do - sometimes it’s for a good reason, and sometimes people know better than yourself, even - shock horror! - the government/legal system.

 

[vz71]

However, what it comes down to us, much as you might dislike being told what to do - sometimes it’s for a good reason, and sometimes people know better than yourself, even - shock horror! - the government/legal system.

I do not mind the government knowing better.
I do mind the government enforcing their decision upon me by force of law.

At what point is it too far?
People agree it is OK since they have our health and safety in mind.
Will these same people sit by if the government were to pass laws governing what people eat and when? Why not, it still is about health and safety…isn’t it?

What about laws dictating where you can work? After all, the government has research telling us what jobs are safe and which are not. Why not use that to insure the safety of people?

Or laws governing the car you can drive? Or the distance you can drive each day?
After all, these too can be construed as safety issues…surely if the government stepped in and made a few laws people would be safer and the cost of healthcare would go down (for those countries with socialised medicine).

At what point is government intrusion into personal life too far?

 

[LemonAndLime]

I do not mind the government knowing better.
I do mind the government enforcing their decision upon me by force of law.

At what point is it too far?
People agree it is OK since they have our health and safety in mind.
Will these same people sit by if the government were to pass laws governing what people eat and when? Why not, it still is about health and safety…isn’t it?

What about laws dictating where you can work? After all, the government has research telling us what jobs are safe and which are not. Why not use that to insure the safety of people?

Or laws governing the car you can drive? Or the distance you can drive each day?
After all, these too can be construed as safety issues…surely if the government stepped in and made a few laws people would be safer and the cost of healthcare would go down (for those countries with socialised medicine).

At what point is government intrusion into personal life too far?

I do agree with you that there is a point where it’s too much (in the UK, we are currently having issues with local councils etc having ridiculous health and safety laws forbidding things like children playing ‘conkers’ etc, ‘just in case’ one of them happens to be hit by a conker, etc). See, I can agree with you too.

However, what you’re describing there is a huge leap from enforcing traffic laws which ultimately enforce the safety of people’s lives, not just yours but other people in the car. If they didn’t, how can they punish parents who refused to seatbelt their children in a car, for example?

Here in the UK we don’t so much get paranoid about our government telling us what to do, and eek socialist/communist-style laws, more get annoyed about what we see as pointless health and safety laws. Less worry, more like this emoticon - . But this is like comparing apples and oranges - completely different culture (although deceptively similar at first appearence) and we’re disagreing from different continents.

 

[CMatt25]

I dont live in a communist nanny state that requires concenting adults to wear seatbelts.

I do. Well I do in regard to belts. At one time the cops couldn’t pull you over for not wearing one. But if you were stopped for another reason, you could get hit with a fine. A secondary offense. Now it’s prmary and you can be pulled over simply for not wearing a belt. Passengers included. And I doubt if I didn’t wear mine, that I would have the fine dropped. So forget the federal government. We lost our personal freedom and free will on wearing belts or not at the state level.

 

[GaryTaylor]

I do. Well I do in regard to belts. And I doubt if I didn’t wear mine, that I would have the fine dropped.

Agree’d

 

[vz71]

However, what you’re describing there is a huge leap from enforcing traffic laws which ultimately enforce the safety of people’s lives, not just yours but other people in the car. If they didn’t, how can they punish parents who refused to seatbelt their children in a car, for example?

I do not see it as a traffic law.
I see it as the state enforcing something that has no effect on anyone else.
Remember the bumper sticker phrase concerning my freedom to swing a fist stops at someone else’s nose. Well…not anymore. Now we have a law to prevent arm swinging. It no longer matters if I have infringed on someone else, it only matters that I am not behaving.

Here in the UK we don’t so much get paranoid about our government telling us what to do, and eek socialist/communist-style laws, more get annoyed about what we see as pointless health and safety laws. Less worry, more like this emoticon - . But this is like comparing apples and oranges - completely different culture (although deceptively similar at first appearence) and we’re disagreing from different continents.

Agreed.
There is a very specific attitude concerning government that apprently never made it across the pond. Generally speaking, my experience is that Americans are extremely independent minded and dislike anything or anyone telling us what to do or how to do it.

 

[LemonAndLime]

I do not see it as a traffic law.
I see it as the state enforcing something that has no effect on anyone else.
Remember the bumper sticker phrase concerning my freedom to swing a fist stops at someone else’s nose. Well…not anymore. Now we have a law to prevent arm swinging. It no longer matters if I have infringed on someone else, it only matters that I am not behaving.

I see what you mean. But, technically, it is a traffic law. However, it can have an effect on someone else. Imagine what would happen if a passenger behind the driver didn’t have a seatbelt on and was projected forward? People have been killed - not by the accident itself, but by a passenger being flung forward into the skull of a driver/front-seat passenger. Also, in a more speculative way - the paramedics attending your accident (which could have been avoided by spending 2 seconds putting on your seatbelt) could of been available to attend another accident. The issue of emergency response is not necessarily one only a country with a national health service should worry about.

Although in the UK despite us having nationalised health service, we do not have a multitude of laws forbidding people from doing things which we know will put more pressure on health services (smoking, obesity, what cars you drive) so to me, your concerns on this are unfounded as it hasn’t happened in my country in the 50 or so years we’ve had the NHS. It’s just lead to health incentives (free nicotine patches, etc) and money being put into organisations/charities to help combat the problems.

Agreed.
There is a very specific attitude concerning government that apprently never made it across the pond. Generally speaking, my experience is that Americans are extremely independent minded and dislike anything or anyone telling us what to do or how to do it.

I’ve noticed this too, but I struggled to word it in a way which was respectful, but the only word I can think of to describe it is ‘paranoia’ when it comes to the American attitude towards the government. Perhaps distrustful is a better word. I think the American attitude comes from the huge cultural idea of freedom to live how you like. Not that this isn’t something we have in the UK, but it’s just taken as a matter of fact that we can live how we like, but in life that’s not always possible. Yet it seems that in America its something you literally demand and cherish, and see any government intervention as invading your rights. It’s not seen like this in the UK - more of an annoyance. Freedom is very rarely used as an argument here against government cuts, increase in taxes, etc - at least not directly.

 

[purplesunshine]

I’ve noticed this too, but I struggled to word it in a way which was respectful, but the only word I can think of to describe it is ‘paranoia’ when it comes to the American attitude towards the government. Perhaps distrustful is a better word. I think the American attitude comes from the huge cultural idea of freedom to live how you like. Not that this isn’t something we have in the UK, but it’s just taken as a matter of fact that we can live how we like, but in life that’s not always possible. Yet it seems that in America its something you literally demand and cherish, and see any government intervention as invading your rights. It’s not seen like this in the UK - more of an annoyance. Freedom is very rarely used as an argument here against government cuts, increase in taxes, etc - at least not directly.

The riots in London over the summer were a very good example of freedoms taken away. Stores were robbed…and shopkeepers had no recourse.

Rioting starts in america, I’m pulling out my shotgun.

 

[LemonAndLime]

The riots in London over the summer were a very good example of freedoms taken away. Stores were robbed…and shopkeepers had no recourse.

Rioting starts in america, I’m pulling out my shotgun.

I don’t believe that freedom is represented by your ability to use/own a weapon.

If there were guns involved in the London riots, I would mourn the inevitable high murder rates and innocent victims. The shopkeepers could equally have been the victims.

 

[vz71]

I’ve noticed this too, but I struggled to word it in a way which was respectful, but the only word I can think of to describe it is ‘paranoia’ when it comes to the American attitude towards the government. Perhaps distrustful is a better word. I think the American attitude comes from the huge cultural idea of freedom to live how you like. Not that this isn’t something we have in the UK, but it’s just taken as a matter of fact that we can live how we like, but in life that’s not always possible.

The knowledge that freedom can be taken away is part of our history and culture.
That knowledge drives many to hold to it tighter.
For many, every aspect of a proposed piece of legislation is examined in the light of possibly infringing upon freedom to make our own decisions.
Paranoia is as good a term as any, but just because we are paranoid over freedoms being taken away does not mean that there is no danger of that happening.

Yet it seems that** in America its something you literally demand and cherish**, and see any government intervention as invading your rights. It’s not seen like this in the UK - more of an annoyance. Freedom is very rarely used as an argument here against government cuts, increase in taxes, etc - at least not directly.

I am pleased that the American view of freedom and liberty can be seen as such.

 

[purplesunshine]

I don’t believe that freedom is represented by your ability to use/own a weapon.

If there were guns involved in the London riots, I would mourn the inevitable high murder rates and innocent victims. The shopkeepers could equally have been the victims.

Yeah…the rioters were a bunch of innocent kids.

OWS in America was disgusting enough, but atleast the violence was kept to a minimum and they had “reasons” albeit foolish ones. But they didn’t rob people of their livelyhoods and strand tourists without phones and personal items becuase they happeend to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Having guns is a GOOD thing.

You stay on your side of the pond and I’ll stay on mine as you watch your civilization fall to “innocent”.

 

[vz71]

I don’t believe that freedom is represented by your ability to use/own a weapon.

If there were guns involved in the London riots, I would mourn the inevitable high murder rates and innocent victims. The shopkeepers could equally have been the victims.

That would depend upon who had the guns and who didn’t.