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Eucharisted
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Fix’d.
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Pope finally launches crackdown on world's largest illicit Catholic shrine [Medjugorje] and suspends 'dubious' priest
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tm30
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I used to be a very big proponent of Medjugorje. The orchestrated smearing of the local bishops and the continued disobedience of the clergy and visionaries convinced me this is not of heavenly origin. The rest (the countless messages, the lack of any real purpose to the appearances, the complete lack of humility and austerity and personal committments to holiness) is just icing on the cake.Not for Medjugorje supporters! They won’t rest until Rome declares Medjugorje authentic -and if Rome doesn’t, then they’ll wait until the Pope declares Medjugorje authentic - and if the Pope doesn’t, than they’ll say the Vatican is evil and follow the appariton exclusively. It’s a tried-and-true method of schism.
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tm30
Guest
You brought up sin against the Holy Spirit - the only unforgivable sin, i.e., resulting in eternal death. How am I supposed to interpret the reference?Never said you’re going to hell.
And sooo… ?Just wanted to remind you: the Holy Spirit was yesterday, is today and will be tomorrow.
Because good and holy bishops have been smeared, and their office defamed by supporters of Medjugorje who cast them as incompetent fools in order to deny the validity of their God-given charism to discern the matter.Why are you all so bitter?
If the Vatican decision is the end-all be-all why are you defending the authenticity of a situation that the Vatican has yet to declare authentic?If you can’t believe in the apparitions, why don’t you at least wait until the Vatican announces the final decision?
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Bakitha
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Never met so much obiedience towards the Church and Pope as amoung Medjugorje friends…
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Eucharisted
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I found some articles on private revelations:
Private Revelation
Revelation: Public and Private
Revelations
Private Revelation
Revelation: Public and Private
Revelations
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Bakitha
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What about all other Bishops who are positivly appointed to Medjugorje - much more than the two local Bishops of which one of them has died. Don’t you see this as a trial?! Why should everything be so easy? God also asks us our personal belief. Not just because the others believe or say so…You brought up sin against the Holy Spirit - the only unforgivable sin, i.e., resulting in eternal death. How am I supposed to interpret the reference?
And sooo… ?
Because good and holy bishops have been smeared, and their office defamed by supporters of Medjugorje who cast them as incompetent fools in order to deny the validity of their God-given charism to discernment the matter.
If the Vatican decision is the end-all be-all why are you defending the authenticity of a situation that the Vatican has yet to declare authentic?
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tm30
Guest
The Church in that region is seated in Mostar, not Rome. The Bishop of Mostar is their shepherd, not Benedict. Benedict is the Bishop of Rome and the Pope, but he is first among equals. So, obedience towards Rome and the Pope is all wonderful, but it doesn’t mean anything if there is disobedience and defiance toward the shepherd under whose jurisdiction Medjugorje falls.Never met so much obiedience towards the Church and Pope as amoung Medjugorje friends…
I would like to charitably believe that most sincere believers in Medjugorje simply don’t understand the significance of this defiance, and that if they did, would not continue to defend the indefensible.
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Bakitha
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Yes, you are right the Bible quote is in that sense. But what I ment was to wake you up a little bit. Is not for me to judge who’s going to hell… Okay, I’m ready for your next attack…You brought up sin against the Holy Spirit - the only unforgivable sin, i.e., resulting in eternal death. How am I supposed to interpret the reference?
And sooo… ?
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LilyM
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There’s 25 years’ worth of them, I don’t think any of us will - even Our Lord was able to be done in a much shorter time and HIS messages are still more than sufficient for a lifetime’s study!Sorry, I think you have not understood the depth of these messages.
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Bakitha
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Okay. But what if a Bishop is simply WRONG?! With great respect to the vocation of a Bishop. But they still stay human. And some can be even quite mistaken. You can’t seriously believe that ALL Bishops are always right.The Church in that region is seated in Mostar, not Rome. The Bishop of Mostar is their shepherd, not Benedict. Benedict is the Bishop of Rome and the Pope, but he is first among equals. So, obedience towards Rome and the Pope is all wonderful, but it doesn’t mean anything if there is disobedience and defiance toward the shepherd under whose jurisdiction Medjugorje falls.
I would like to charitably believe that most sincere believers in Medjugorje simply don’t understand the significance of this defiance, and that if they did, would not continue to defend the indefensible.
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tm30
Guest
The charism of discernment belongs to the local bishop only.What about all other Bishops who are positivly appointed to Medjugorje - much more than the two local Bishops of which one of them has died.
Yes. A trial of obedience and respect toward the office of bishop.Don’t you see this as a trial?!
Then what’s the point of the Church? Sounds awfully relativistic to me.God also asks us our personal belief. Not just because the others believe or say so…
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Bakitha
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So, is it too long to listen to your Mum for 25 years is it?There’s 25 years’ worth of them, I don’t think any of us will - even Our Lord was able to be done in a much shorter time and HIS messages are still more than sufficient for a lifetime’s study!
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Bakitha
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As far as I know, the priests now in duty in Medjugorje are very obiedient. I have heard that one of the priests was even sent away and he is not allowed to listen to confession - he obeys and for him it must be a horrible trial.The charism of discernment belongs to the local bishop only.
Yes. A trial of obedience and respect toward the office of bishop.
Then what’s the point of the Church? Sounds awfully relativistic to me.
The point of the Church is guidance and orientation and more to that. But you also need to believe in your heart, okay, that is leading to an other discussion…
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LilyM
Guest
I listen to my God - through His authorised messengers - those who wrote Scripture and the Magisterium of the Church. Between the two sources of Scripture and Magisterial documents I can find much more profitable material for a lifetime’s study than Medj. judging from what I’ve read of it. Paul’s saying about meat as opposed to milk comes to mind.So, is it too long to listen to your Mum for 25 years is it?
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Bakitha
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Please read my quote.Okay. But what if a Bishop is simply WRONG?! With great respect to the vocation of a Bishop. But they still stay human. And some can be even quite mistaken. You can’t seriously believe that ALL Bishops are always right.
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LilyM
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Padre Pio’s superiors were wrong - they wrongfully ordered him to stop saying Mass. He did so in loving obedience, without grumbling or complaining. And was vindicated and rewarded for his obedience as a result.Okay. But what if a Bishop is simply WRONG?! With great respect to the vocation of a Bishop. But they still stay human. And some can be even quite mistaken. You can’t seriously believe that ALL Bishops are always right.
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Eucharisted
Guest
The Bishop is an office, not a vocation. And we are certain beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Bishop has judged Medjugorje, saying there is no evidence of any supernatural activity. Furthermore, the seers have continually disobeyed him. Disobedience is a big red flag - so big, in fact, that it is enough to prove an apparition is inauthentic. Which is why we don’t believe in Medjugorje. Furthmore, the only reason the Vatican is handling the case now is because of the battles between the Bishop and the ex-Franscians. The Vatican will either declare the apparitons true or false, or it will restate the negative judgment of the Bishop. I just hope and pray that you Medjugorje supporters will heed Rome.Okay. But what if a Bishop is simply WRONG?! With great respect to the vocation of a Bishop. But they still stay human. And some can be even quite mistaken. You can’t seriously believe that ALL Bishops are always right.
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tm30
Guest
.Okay. But what if a Bishop is simply WRONG?! With great respect to the vocation of a Bishop. But they still stay human. And some can be even quite mistaken.
Theoretically speaking, if the Bishop is simply WRONG, it still doesn’t give you the right to disobey or defame their office through defiance.
Read “Diary of a Soul”, and see what Jesus has to say about “obedience” towards those He has placed in authority.
I can’t assume that I myself am 100% right in how I discern the actions of bishops. Are you? If you’re not 100% right in your discernment, how do you know the bishops are right ot wrong? Oh yes - the promise of the Holy Spirit conferred by Christ on the first bishops and passed along through apostolic succession. I"ll place my bet on the power of the Holy Spirit imbued in the office of bishop instead of the power of mass hysteria.You can’t seriously believe that ALL Bishops are always right.
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Bakitha
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And so many people have found their way to regular Scripture reading because of messages in Medjugorje.I listen to my God - through His authorised messengers - those who wrote Scripture and the Magisterium of the Church. Between the two sources of Scripture and Magisterial documents I can find much more profitable material for a lifetime’s study than Medj. judging from what I’ve read of it. Paul’s saying about meat as opposed to milk comes to mind.
Sure it is enough what you are doing. Nothing against that. But if you try living the messages, you can notice, that it is nothing too simple…
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Eucharisted
Guest
Jesus on obedience to Saint Faustina (“Divine Mercy In My Soul”):
By obedience you give great glory to Me and gain merit for yourself. (28)
Yes… when you are obedient I take away your weakness and replace it with My strength. I am very surprised that souls do not want to make that exchange with Me. I said to the Lord, “Jesus, enlighten my heart, or else I, too, will not understand much from these words.” (381)
My daughter, know that you give Me greater glory by a single act of obedience than by long prayers and mortifications. (894)
If only the seers had heard these words! Alas, their disobedience to the Bishop has cost them their credibility.My daughter, you please me more by eating the oranges out of obedience and love of Me than by fasting and mortifying yourself of your own will. A soul that loves Me very much must, ought to live by My will. (1023)
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