Pope Francis and the Latin Mass

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thunderboom said:
Let’s not forget: the vernacular Mass is the ordinary form of the Mass. “Extraordinary” means exactly what it says, out of the ordinary. Neither JP2 or B16 celebrated the Mass in Latin - the Mass is simply the Mass. It would be nice if he promoted it - but right now there are other issues, and the Holy Spirit gives us the Holy Father we need right now.

Folks, I’m going to say is let’s not be the like the initial reaction on Rorate Caeli: “Of all the unthinkable candidates, Jorge Mario Bergoglio is perhaps the worst.” He won me over as soon as he started the Our Father, and then asked the people for their blessing: truly, the Servant of the Servants of God.
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I do not share your sentiments, unfortunately. But I will silence myself in favor of His Holiness.
 
Megan7 said:
A dear friend of mine **visited & lived in Latin America **for 6 months & called the Archdiocese in his area asking about the Latin Mass & was told several times that
“Latin was dead, what for??? We do not need that, its for old people” :eek: 😦

And he could not find Holy water or confessionals at 4 churches he visited :o
Every Church he visited was very modern, reminding him of Protestant Churches
from back home :o He is a convert…

I pray that Pope Francis can start the ball rolling indeed…:highprayer::signofcross:
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In Buenos Aires or somewhere else? When I was in Chile most of the churches I saw were older buildings rather than new construction. Interesting that your friend only saw modern looking churches - guess that’s a good sign of growth even if he didn’t like the architechture! 🙂
 
Bl_Pope_Pius_IX said:
I do not share your sentiments, unfortunately. But I will silence myself in favor of His Holiness.
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Don’t get me wrong, there’s a place for the Extraordinary Form, for those who prefer it. We have the FSSP and others for this, and they have plenty of vocations (and growing, probably). But there’s also a very important need for evangelization, and the Holy Mass in the vernacular has an important role to play in all this.

If he’s a holy man, a saintly man like our last five or ten popes, and he brings humankind to Jesus, that’s what matters. His opinions on the Extraordinary Form vs. the Ordinary Form matter much less than bringing the world to Jesus.
 
thunderboom said:
Let’s not forget: the vernacular Mass is the ordinary form of the Mass. “Extraordinary” means exactly what it says, out of the ordinary. Neither JP2 or B16 celebrated the Mass in Latin - the Mass is simply the Mass. It would be nice if he promoted it - but right now there are other issues, and the Holy Spirit gives us the Holy Father we need right now.

Folks, I’m going to say is let’s not be the like the initial reaction on Rorate Caeli: “Of all the unthinkable candidates, Jorge Mario Bergoglio is perhaps the worst.” He won me over as soon as he started the Our Father, and then asked the people for their blessing: truly, the Servant of the Servants of God.
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A small point of distinction, but an important one. He did not ask the people for their blessing, he asked them to pray to God and ask that God would bless him. This distinction was correctly noted on the EWTN broadcast this afternoon. The laity have no power to bless the Holy Father, but they do have the power to pray that God will bless him.

I’m not trying to nitpick, but these things are important.
 
Mrs_Sally said:
In Buenos Aires or somewhere else? When I was in Chile most of the churches I saw were older buildings rather than new construction. Interesting that your friend only saw modern looking churches - guess that’s a good sign of growth even if he didn’t like the architechture! 🙂
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Buenos Aires is not in Chile. It is in Argentina.
 
Remember, also: he’s bi-ritual; he is the ordinary for Eastern Rite in Argentina/Buenos Ares. That means he is allowed to celebrate the Divine Liturgy - surely that counts, doesn’t it?
 
godisgood77 said:
I would agree that is probably not at the top of the agenda, nor should it be. Probably shouldn’t be in the top 10
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I could not disagree with you more. Since the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is where we get the Eucharist, and with the Eucharist being the Source and Summit of our Faith, combined with the fact that the EF of the Mass was of obvious importance to Pope Benedict, the thoughts of our new Holy Father regarding the Mass are of interest to many. In addition, we have Bishops like Archbishop Sample and others saying things like:
I am solidly convinced that an authentic and faithful renewal and reform of the sacred liturgy is not only part of the New Evangelization — it is essential to its fruitfulness. The liturgy has the power to form and transform the Catholic faithful. We must live by the axiom lex orandi, lex credendi (the law of praying is the law of believing). What we celebrate in the Mass expresses the essential content of the faith, and it also reinforces our faith when celebrated well and with fidelity.
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The liturgy both teaches us and expresses what we believe. If we do not get the sacred liturgy right, I fear that we will just be spinning our wheels rather than getting the New Evangelization going in the right direction. If we are transformed by the sacred liturgy, then we, as believers, can help transform the culture.
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So, while you may not find the thoughts of our Holy Father on the Mass to be of primary importance, or think that the reform of the liturgy is an important thing to continue, many others do.
 
jwinch2 said:
A small point of distinction, but an important one. He did not ask the people for their blessing, he asked them to pray to God and ask that God would bless him. This distinction was correctly noted on the EWTN broadcast this afternoon. The laity have no power to bless the Holy Father, but they do have the power to pray that God will bless him.

I’m not trying to nitpick, but these things are important.
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Okay, semantics :rolleyes:. Let’s just say I fell in love with His Holiness when he bowed deeply before the people and asked them to pray for him. If we take the papacy as a position of servant-ship to the people of God, this is a humble and humbling gesture from our Holy Father.
 
grasscutter said:
I’m pretty sure that Mrs. Sally isn’t geographically challenged. What would be your actually contribution to this dialogue?
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Pointing out something that some people might not know. Since the Holy Father is from Argentina, I couldn’t see the relevance of how Churches look in Chile. Thats all.

Whats your contribution ?
 
jwinch2 said:
I could not disagree with you more. Since the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is where we get the Eucharist, and with the Eucharist being the Source and Summit of our Faith, combined with the fact that the EF of the Mass was of obvious importance to Pope Benedict, the thoughts of our new Holy Father regarding the Mass are of interest to many. In addition, we have Bishops like Archbishop Sample and others saying things like:

So, while you may not find the thoughts of our Holy Father on the Mass to be of primary importance, or think that the reform of the liturgy is an important thing to continue, many others do.
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I was waiting to see if you would call in to Fr. Mitch’s show tonight! 🙂 No one really asked the question I think is just begging to be asked. I’m very surprised this topic has not been discussed yet. I know it’s very early and it just happened, but given the importance that was placed upon the liturgy by Benedict XVI I would have thought that might be the first thing some commentators would talk about, but no…we have heard nothing on this yet.

I am looking forward to seeing what develops.
 
Thank you Grasscutter. 😉

My point being that Latin America is a big place. In Chile - specifically Santiago - I saw very few modern churches (of course I also wasn’t in every church in town).

Megan’s friend saw something different in whatever city or cities he visited. If none of them were in Argentina, it doesn’t tell us much about what Pope Francis was doing about church buildings or the form of the Mass while he was bishop.
 
thunderboom said:
Okay, semantics :rolleyes:. Let’s just say I fell in love with His Holiness when he bowed deeply before the people and asked them to pray for him. If we take the papacy as a position of servant-ship to the people of God, this is what we want from our Holy Father.
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You can use the sarcastic emoticon and roll your eyes all you like. I was happy to see Pope Francis ask for the prayers of the faithful as well. However, it is not just semantics. One is correct and something that the laity can do, and the other is incorrect and something the laity have no power to do.
 
The_Scott said:
Remember, also: he’s bi-ritual; he is the ordinary for Eastern Rite in Argentina/Buenos Ares. That means he is allowed to celebrate the Divine Liturgy - surely that counts, doesn’t it?
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Every Pope, upon becoming Pope, becomes omni-ritual and may celebrate the Eucharistic Liturgy according to any of the rites of the Church.
 
jwinch2 said:
You can use the sarcastic emoticon and roll your eyes all you like. I was happy to see Pope Francis ask for the prayers of the faithful as well. However, it is not just semantics. One is correct and something that the laity can do, and the other is incorrect and something the laity have no power to do.
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Dude, chill down lol. I’m writing really quickly on an internet forum while I’m watching tv - I’m not writing an article for Communio. It truly is semantics. 🙂
 
Mike30 said:
Pointing out something that some people might not know. Since the Holy Father is from Argentina, I couldn’t see the relevance of how Churches look in Chile. Thats all.

Whats your contribution ?
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My contribution was about advancing dialogue that is congruent to the thread title. And, considering that Chile and Argentina share the same continent, it’s reasonable that someone would mention what they personally observed. Certainly they wouldn’t deserve to be derided for that.
 
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