Pope Francis and the Latin Mass

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One thing which does speak highly in his favor is that Fr. Fessio SJ, who founded Adoremus – Society for the Renewal of the Sacred Liturgy speaks highly of him. Specifically, he stated when asked his thoughts: “You’ll love him. The other Jesuits hate him. I’m ecstatic.”

With that kind of endorsement from someone in Fr. Fessio, SJ who deeply cares about the Liturgy, I am hopeful that Pope Francis will continue reforms in the area of the Liturgy with the path that Pope Benedict started.

adoremus.org/faq.htm
 
One other random thing about our new Holy Father…I have seen that he is fluent in Spanish, German, and Italian, but not English. That is interesting.
 
Very interesting. Unfortunately, the good Father who runs that blog has not been able to find confirmation of the claims so far. Its very early, so perhaps more information will be forthcoming.
fssp.org/en/messes.htm

I would reccommend the FSSP international website. It lists all activity worldwide by FSSP. No activity in Argentina at all. Ditto for the Institute of Christ the King Soverign Priest. They aren’t there either. I would also reccommend the Archdiocesan website of Buenos Aires itself. No mention of Extraordinary Form Masses anywhere. . There are apparently a few Diocesan Extraordinary Form Masses in Argentina and some have been celebrated by Argentinian Bishops. None however in the Diocese of Buenos Aires and none by the Holy Father.

At least none that I could find. If someone else can dig one up I will be glad to have the mods delete my postings, but it really doesn’t look like there have been any.

There is however a very sizeable SSPX presence in Argentina including in the Archdiocese of Buenos Aires, which would indicate that there is a desire for the Extraordinary Form of the Mass…
 
Regardless of whether or not Pope Francis supports the Extraordinary Form of the Mass, I will support him and love him. I think he will be a very good Pope for us.
 
fssp.org/en/messes.htm

I would reccommend the FSSP international website. It lists all activity worldwide by FSSP. No activity in Argentina at all. Ditto for the Institute of Christ the King Soverign Priest. They aren’t there either. I would also reccommend the Archdiocesan website of Buenos Aires itself. No mention of Extraordinary Form Masses anywhere. . There are apparently a few Diocesan Extraordinary Form Masses in Argentina and some have been celebrated by Argentinian Bishops. None however in the Diocese of Buenos Aires and none by the Holy Father.

At least none that I could find. If someone else can dig one up I will be glad to have the mods delete my postings, but it really doesn’t look like there have been any.

There is however a very sizeable SSPX presence in Argentina including in the Archdiocese of Buenos Aires, which would indicate that there is a desire for the Extraordinary Form of the Mass…
Someone just gave me this link…I don’t know what affiliation these Churches have…

maps.google.com.ar/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=206090314166478485845.00046ba60f7b2a9ea8e81&ie=UTF8&t=m&ll=-34.234512%2C-62.929687&spn=25.318365%2C21.972656&z=4&source=embed
 
My contribution was about advancing dialogue that is congruent to the thread title. And, considering that Chile and Argentina share the same continent, it’s reasonable that someone would mention what they personally observed. Certainly they wouldn’t deserve to be derided for that.
I didn’t deride anyone or anything. I merely stated a fact with no sarcasm, and no mal intent.
 
It doesn’t appear reform of the liturgy is at the top of his agenda, but I would be surprised if the Spanish Masses weren’t expanded.
Yeah, I can’t help but wonder if the people of the Spanish Masses have different priorities than the Latin Mass. Latin and Spanish are very similar languages. I mean, I don’t know but perhaps there hasn’t been much request for the Latin Mass in Argentina. Perhaps they don’t have the abuse issues. 🤷
 
One other random thing about our new Holy Father…I have seen that he is fluent in Spanish, German, and Italian, but not English. That is interesting.
That’s not that unusual, is it? They might have been able to read a paragraph or two but I don’t think the previous Popes were that fluent in English (either).

It seems as if there is more of a demand for Spanish anyway. Last Saturday I attended a Spanish Mass with the gospel read by the deacon. It was a real struggle for him, but obviously they wanted to get him up to speed. It’s a growing community.
Yeah, I can’t help but wonder if the people of the Spanish Masses have different priorities than the Latin Mass. Latin and Spanish are very similar languages. I mean, I don’t know but perhaps there hasn’t been much request for the Latin Mass in Argentina. Perhaps they don’t have the abuse issues. 🤷
Except for a lot of Arabic thrown in there, Spanish is very similar to Latin. Compare the Pater Noster, for example. Yet, it seems as if the Latin Mass just wouldn’t catch on as well as you might expect. Latin OF maybe, though.
 
That’s not that unusual, is it? They might have been able to read a paragraph or two but I don’t think the previous Popes were that fluent in English (either).

It seems as if there is more of a demand for Spanish anyway. Last Saturday I attended a Spanish Mass with the gospel read by the deacon. It was a real struggle for him, but obviously they wanted to get him up to speed. It’s a growing community.
JPII and BXVI were definitely fluent in English. I’m just thinking for when he eventually comes on a trip to the U.S. or another English speaking country, it’ll make communication a bit more difficult if he cannot speak the language, no?

This of course is assuming that he will travel as much as previous popes, but there is nothing mandating that he must be a world-travelling pope.
 
I didn’t deride anyone or anything. I merely stated a fact with no sarcasm, and no mal intent.
Fair enough. I apoligize if I spoke out of turn. It probably came from my dismay at (nothing to do with you, personally) all of the opinions being put out about our new Holy Father. As though we have the right to judge. :confused:
 
JPII and BXVI were definitely fluent in English. I’m just thinking for when he eventually comes on a trip to the U.S. or another English speaking country, it’ll make communication a bit more difficult if he cannot speak the language, no?
We’ll just have to learn a little Spanish then. 😉
 
A review of what exists in the province of each Cardinal will give one an idea of what he is about.
We could speculate on the intentions of our clergy and its hierarchy, but all a believer has to do is pray to Our Lady of La Salette and receive an answer. Read her prophesies for clues.
 
I verified these below through Una Voce Lomas de Zamora, Argentina. As near as I can tell they are the only approved Extraordinary Form Masses in Argentina,

LA PLATA: Santuario de la Medalla Milagrosa, ubicada en calle 75 entre 6 y 7, Ciudad de La Plata. Todos los Domingos a las 12 horas.
SAN JUSTO: Parroquia Nuestra Señora de la Guardia Avenida Avelino Díaz 1020, Bº Sarmiento Villa Celina – Diócesis de San Justo. Todos los Domingos 16,30 horas.
CORDOBA: Capilla de la Santísima Trinidad, ubicada junto a la estación de colectivos. Todos los Domingos a las 10 horas. Organiza Una Voce Córdoba.
MAR DEL PLATA: Capilla Stella Maris, Base Naval de Mar del Plata. Domingos a las 17 horas.
SAN RAFAEL-MENDOZA: Santa Misa Tradicional Todos los Jueves, 21:00 hs. Parroquia San Pedro Apóstol.
SAN LUIS: Sante Misa Tradicional todos los Domingos a las 11:30hs en la Parroquia Nuestra Señora de Lourdes en la ciudad de San Luis, Aristóbulo del Valle y Juan Zavala, Teléfono: (0266) 4434229, Colectivo linea A.
TUCUMAN: Santa Misa Tradicional todos los Sabados, 19:00 hs. Capilla del Buen Pastor

The others either no longer offer the Extraordinary Form or are SSPX or some other group. These all appear to be diocesan in nature… All of the above are outside of the Archdiocese of Buenos Aires. The only Extraordinary Form Mass in the Archdiocese of Buenos Aires is at an SSPX Chapel.

Habemus Papum
 
I could not disagree with you more. Since the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is where we get the Eucharist, and with the Eucharist being the Source and Summit of our Faith, combined with the fact that the EF of the Mass was of obvious importance to Pope Benedict, the thoughts of our new Holy Father regarding the Mass are of interest to many. In addition, we have Bishops like Archbishop Sample and others saying things like:

So, while you may not find the thoughts of our Holy Father on the Mass to be of primary importance, or think that the reform of the liturgy is an important thing to continue, many others do.
Well… Benedict reformed the liturgy significantly, so I agree that he thought reform was important. I didn’t really read or hear of him speaking of further reforms being necessary. It seems like he was more interested in bringing our minds and hearts to a more reverent place while celebrating the mass.

I don’t understand you connecting liturgy reform to the Eucharist, however. It seems as though you might be implying the Eucharist is invalid other forms?? Please clarify.

Relative to the Latin Mass, I’m all for people being able to attend the form they are drawn to.
However, Benedict didn’t see fit to go any further than he did. In fact Benedict once classified the Tridentine Mass to a liturgy that was “condemned to an internal death”. Now that is not to say that he thought it should be eradicated, but it is an indication of his thoughts on making it the norm.

My prayers for our wonderful new Pope are that with God’s grace he is able to bring simplicity to the fore and focus to reforming the institution.
 
Fair enough. I apoligize if I spoke out of turn. It probably came from my dismay at (nothing to do with you, personally) all of the opinions being put out about our new Holy Father. As though we have the right to judge. :confused:
No problem at all. 🙂

I cannot speak for others, but I am merely pointing out facts which are well known in certain circles, Argentina for one. I am drawing no opinion and judging, Merely presenting the facts as dismal as they are.

Habemus papum
 
I verified these below through Una Voce Lomas de Zamora, Argentina.
The others either no longer offer the Extraordinary Form or are SSPX or some other group. These all appear to be diocesan in nature… All of the above are outside of the Archdiocese of Buenos Aires. The only Extraordinary Form Mass in the Archdiocese of Buenos Aires is at an SSPX Chapel.

Habemus Papum
Hm, good to know. Thanks for the info!
 
I verified these below through Una Voce Lomas de Zamora, Argentina. As near as I can tell they are the only approved Extraordinary Form Masses in Argentina,

LA PLATA: Santuario de la Medalla Milagrosa, ubicada en calle 75 entre 6 y 7, Ciudad de La Plata. Todos los Domingos a las 12 horas.
SAN JUSTO: Parroquia Nuestra Señora de la Guardia Avenida Avelino Díaz 1020, Bº Sarmiento Villa Celina – Diócesis de San Justo. Todos los Domingos 16,30 horas.
CORDOBA: Capilla de la Santísima Trinidad, ubicada junto a la estación de colectivos. Todos los Domingos a las 10 horas. Organiza Una Voce Córdoba.
MAR DEL PLATA: Capilla Stella Maris, Base Naval de Mar del Plata. Domingos a las 17 horas.
SAN RAFAEL-MENDOZA: Santa Misa Tradicional Todos los Jueves, 21:00 hs. Parroquia San Pedro Apóstol.
SAN LUIS: Sante Misa Tradicional todos los Domingos a las 11:30hs en la Parroquia Nuestra Señora de Lourdes en la ciudad de San Luis, Aristóbulo del Valle y Juan Zavala, Teléfono: (0266) 4434229, Colectivo linea A.
TUCUMAN: Santa Misa Tradicional todos los Sabados, 19:00 hs. Capilla del Buen Pastor

The others either no longer offer the Extraordinary Form or are SSPX or some other group. These all appear to be diocesan in nature… All of the above are outside of the Archdiocese of Buenos Aires. The only Extraordinary Form Mass in the Archdiocese of Buenos Aires is at an SSPX Chapel.

Habemus Papum
The fourth one down on that link certainly appears to be within the Archdiocese of Buenos Aires.

Villa Celina, Buenos Aires
Av. Avelino Díaz 1020.
 
I don’t understand you connecting liturgy reform to the Eucharist, however. It seems as though you might be implying the Eucharist is invalid other forms?? Please clarify.
No, that is not what I am saying.
Relative to the Latin Mass, I’m all for people being able to attend the form they are drawn to. However, Benedict didn’t see fit to go any further than he did. In fact Benedict once classified the Tridentine Mass to a liturgy that was “condemned to an internal death”. Now that is not to say that he thought it should be eradicated, but it is an indication of his thoughts on making it the norm.
I was not talking about the EF of the Mass, I was talking about the Liturgy of the Mass of the Roman rite in general. Your post said that you did not believe the liturgy should be in the top 10 concerns of the Holy Father. I took that to mean the liturgy in general, not merely the EF of the Mass. Perhaps that was not your meaning?

As for the rest, yes, Pope Benedict did initiate reforms of the Mass, but they are hardly implemented at this point. We have a long way to go to realize his vision of what the Mass should be.
 
edant.clarin.com/diario/2007/09/17/sociedad/s-03001.html

This article, from 2007 states that Pope Francis, when he was Archbishop, made arrangements for the EF of the Mass to be offered within 48 hours of Summorum Pontificum being released. Here is the English translation (emphasis mine)
HELD FOR THE FIRST TIME IN THE COUNTRY SINCE POPE AUTHORIZED IT
returned the Latin Mass, with women covered by blankets
One hundred savvy faithful old liturgy were yesterday in San Miguel Archangel.
Four decades after the Latin Mass with the priest facing the altar officiating was replaced by the office in the language of each country and facing the faithful, the old way of celebrating was restored yesterday at a church in Buenos Aires . It was before hundreds of worshipers eager to participate in the traditional way. The celebration took place 48 hours after Pope Benedict XVI signed the decree (motu proprio) that releases this modality. Until Friday, the Latin mass required approval of the bishop, that process is no longer necessary. From now on, to an order of the faithful, the priest must access. Yet the Archbishop of Buenos Aires, Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio, arranged a fixed holding jurisdiction for the faithful to offer locals a specific place and avoid the problem that oficiarla many priests do not know. parish is St. Michael the Archangel, in the downtown. His pastor, DOther Ricardo, is an expert in liturgy. had to dust off the latest version of the old missal, 1962, provide for the altar, put six candles instead of two and achieve an organist who knew the old songs . "In Nomine Patris, Sancti Spiritus et et Filii "said DOther after 10, when reciting the sign of the cross with the start of the trade. Faithful mostly adults and the elderly, but also some young, blanketed several women, and almost all with missal, followed him with unction. Women were also quite long skirts. was striking a family with three girls, all blanket . Many attendees seemed very knowledgeable about the ancient liturgy. Even, not without some that slipped some discomfort because the celebration was not, in his view, entirely by the old way and mixed with modern elements . was received communion kneeling at the altar and in the mouth. There was no sign of peace, or prayer of the faithful, or offertory procession. " This way of celebrating Mass greatly enriched the celebration because it takes into account the elements of an ancient liturgical tradition , "said Fabian leaving, 45. In turn, Carolina, 21, student of philosophy, considered so "me more spiritually uplifting . " DOther Father in his homily did not mention the way in which the celebrated. Then, asked journalists not to say that is the Tridentine Mass, but “how extraordinary Roman rite.” So he sought to narrow the controversy surrounding his rehabilitation.
The translation is a bit rough being from Google translator, but it would appear from this article that our Holy Father made arrangements to have a fixed location for the EF of the Mass very soon after Pope Benedict’s Motu Proprio was released.
 
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