Pope Francis and the Latin Mass

[crazzeto]

I’m not sure if this has been posted here yet or not, but I just saw this today:

the-hermeneutic-of-continuity.blogspot.com/2013/03/old-rite-mass-in-argentina.html

There have been many comments flying around alleging that there are no old rite Masses in Argentina apart from those offered by the SSPX. It seems that things are different. Clarin.com reported that 48 hours after Pope Benedict issued Summorum Pontificum, Archbishop Bergoglio arranged for Mass according to the usus antiquior to be said regularly at St Michael the Archangel in Buenos Aires.

 

[Arrependida]

Because to some people, their spiritual life flows from the Mass and the Eucharist. Some of those people are deeply affected in their spirituality by the EF of the Mass. If we are going to be of any assistance in the New Evangelization, our own spiritual house must be in order. Once cannot give, what one does not have.

I am not personally one who is attracted to the EF, but my spiritual life does indeed flow from the Liturgical prayer of the Church, the Mass and the Divine Office. As such, the pope’s thoughts on the Liturgy are of extreme importance to me. As Archbishop Sample recently and eloquently stated when asked whether or not the Liturgy could transform the culture:

It would be impossible for me to agree with Archbishop Sample more than I do on this area.

In addition, you could seek any number of statements and writings from Pope Benedict. Specifically, I would urge you to read his thoughts on beauty, and its importance for us as people of God. God is beauty, pure and simple. If our liturgy does not reflect the beauty and majesty of God, why would anyone be attracted to it, and how are we supposed to witness that beauty if we never see it? The moment when we meet God face to face in the Eucharist should be the most beautiful thing we see this side of Heaven. That is why it is such a frequent topic of discussion and also why so many people are curious about Pope Francis’ thoughts on the liturgy!

Combine this reality with many people on here being in parishes where the liturgy is bordering on atrocious and who are desperately hoping for Pope Benedict’s plan for the liturgy to be faithfully implemented, and things become deeply important to some people, me included.

I totally agree…
I was kept away from the Faith and the Church for 30 years by the irreverent latin american masses (in my case Brazil) and brought back into Belief again by a reverend mass that I found here in the US. Sometimes I wonder if people that participate in those “fun” masses would keep on going to church in Latin America if they took their clapping, their drums, their puppets away…Were they really converted? Do they really believe in the holy scrifice of the mass? Or are they just going becausing it is a lot of fun? Is the church more concerned with quantity than quality?

 

[DanMarsh]

Not sure what to make of Rotate Coeli.

Cardinal Bergoglio implemented Latin Mass within two days of the Motu Proprio.

Rubin, Sergio (17 September 2007). “Regresó la misa en latín, con mujeres cubiertas por mantillas”. Retrieved 14 March 2013.

WikiMissa lists several dozen Latin masses in Argentina

honneurs.free.fr/Wikini/wakka.php?wiki=ArgentinE

The Congregation of Mary Immaculate Queen lists two Latin masses in Argentina that they personally administer.

cmri.org/latin-mass-directory/traditional-latin-mass-locations-5a.shtml

 

[Lormar]

I could not disagree with you more. Since the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is where we get the Eucharist, and with the Eucharist being the Source and Summit of our Faith, combined with the fact that the EF of the Mass was of obvious importance to Pope Benedict, the thoughts of our new Holy Father regarding the Mass are of interest to many. In addition, we have Bishops like Archbishop Sample and others saying things like:

So, while you may not find the thoughts of our Holy Father on the Mass to be of primary importance, or think that the reform of the liturgy is an important thing to continue, many others do.

 

[Boulder257]

According to his biography: Cardinal Bergoglio was one of the first bishops in the world to respond to Benedict XVI’s Summorum Pontificum by instituting a regular traditional Latin Mass in Buenos Aires within just two days of the Papal motu proprio

 

[jwinch2]

According to his biography: Cardinal Bergoglio was one of the first bishops in the world to respond to Benedict XVI’s Summorum Pontificum by instituting a regular traditional Latin Mass in Buenos Aires within just two days of the Papal motu proprio

Interesting. Do you have link you could share on that?

Peace,

 

[ProVobis]

I totally agree…
I was kept away from the Faith and the Church for 30 years by the irreverent latin american masses (in my case Brazil) and brought back into Belief again by a reverend mass that I found here in the US. Sometimes I wonder if people that participate in those “fun” masses would keep on going to church in Latin America if they took their clapping, their drums, their puppets away…Were they really converted? Do they really believe in the holy scrifice of the mass? Or are they just going becausing it is a lot of fun? Is the church more concerned with quantity than quality?

Now, now, now, let’s not start culture wars.

 

[jwinch2]

I totally agree…
I was kept away from the Faith and the Church for 30 years by the irreverent latin american masses (in my case Brazil) and brought back into Belief again by a reverend mass that I found here in the US. Sometimes I wonder if people that participate in those “fun” masses would keep on going to church in Latin America if they took their clapping, their drums, their puppets away…Were they really converted? Do they really believe in the holy scrifice of the mass? Or are they just going becausing it is a lot of fun? Is the church more concerned with quantity than quality?

In my time in Brazil, that was also my experience, even at a very holy place (the Convent at Penha). The sign of peace took some time, to say the least.

 

[PJD1987]

I’m paraphrasing here, but I just watched the Holy Fathers first Mass and in his homily he said: the Church is a Church of movement, but not all movement is good, sometimes it takes you backwards.

This type of language makes me uneasy.

 

[Mike30]

Not sure what to make of Rotate Coeli.

Cardinal Bergoglio implemented Latin Mass within two days of the Motu Proprio.

Rubin, Sergio (17 September 2007). “Regresó la misa en latín, con mujeres cubiertas por mantillas”. Retrieved 14 March 2013.

WikiMissa lists several dozen Latin masses in Argentina

honneurs.free.fr/Wikini/wakka.php?wiki=ArgentinE

The Congregation of Mary Immaculate Queen lists two Latin masses in Argentina that they personally administer.

cmri.org/latin-mass-directory/traditional-latin-mass-locations-5a.shtml

Unfortunately the Congregation of Mary Immaculate Queen is not in communion with the Holy See and is in fact sede vacantist to the best of my knowledge…

As to the other Masses listed, most if not all are SSPX, including the one listed for the Archdiocese of Buenos Aires. I have yet to find confirmation that there is in fact an approved Extraordinary Form Mass celebrated on a regular basis in the Archdiocese of Buenos Aires.

While it may be true that it was instituted extremely quickly even the report that you listed mentioned that it was not celebrated according to the rubrics as required. More than a few Bishops instituted the Extraordinary Form of the Mass very quickly and dumped it just as fast. It is generally considered a good idea to do what the boss wants at least on the surface.

 

[Marie5890]

I watched the Pope celebrate his first Mass today in the Sistine Chapel with the Cardinals and he certainly goes for simplicity. From his miter, to his crosier, to even his vestments. He didnt overly stand out, visually speaking, from the college of Cardinals.

He certainly is serious about why he took the name Francis.

The EF is clearly not going to be a priority, though I would be surprised if he got in the way for those who promote it.

 

[Bob_Aliano]

The initial reports I have heard haven’t sounded encouraging, but I’ll wait a little bit to see what else comes to light. I have a feeling that he’s not going to do much with the liturgy one way or the other, but I guess we have to wait and see for that.

Neutral is better than some alternatives, I’m sure the Holy Father realizes the damage that is possible by opposing the TLM at this point. The sad thing, I believe, is the likelihood he will not continue to reach out to the SSPX, they may be lost to us.

 

[Boulder257]

Neutral is better than some alternatives, I’m sure the Holy Father realizes the damage that is possible by opposing the TLM at this point. The sad thing, I believe, is the likelihood he will not continue to reach out to the SSPX, they may be lost to us.

Or, they could do some reaching out.

 

[The_Scott]

I’m going to copy/paste a comment from Father Martin Fox, a commenter on Father Z’s blog. I think it offers wonderful insight to this perceived “dilemma.”

"God bless Pope Francis.

I’m going to keep saying this, till it soaks in. The true liturgical reform and renewal, which Pope Benedict sought to bring about, will not work as a “top-down” affair. Our recent holy father chose to set it in motion from the “bottom up” as it were. That’s the best way to do it. While the example of the holy father is important, no doubt, the things that many of us are dedicated to, in the liturgy, can and will proceed. We already have a growing number of priests dedicated to this renewal. In years ahead, more bishops. Before long, cardinals.

This, I think, was Pope Benedict’s genius. This sort of renewal is harder to stop, and will have better fruit. And, if you think about it, the problematic things that happened in the liturgy also happened this way.

These comments, by the way, are not a commentary on Pope Francis’s liturgical approach. Too little data. They are a response to those who fret that a Pope Francis who isn’t pursuing the same liturgical vision will stymie what many of us look for.

God bless Pope Francis."

wdtprs.com/blog/2013/03/conclave-concludes-mass-in-the-sistine-chapel-with-cardinals/#comments

 

[Bob_Aliano]

Or, they could do some reaching out.

Let’s hope they have that wisdom.

 

[Anthony86]

I’m going to copy/paste a comment from Father Martin Fox, a commenter on Father Z’s blog. I think it offers wonderful insight to this perceived “dilemma.”

Very good. We who are attached to the old forms should support those institutes and fraternities which advance it (such as the FSSP or the ICKSP), rather than lament that the current pope sets different priorities for his ministry.

 

[Mike30]

Neutral is better than some alternatives, I’m sure the Holy Father realizes the damage that is possible by opposing the TLM at this point. The sad thing, I believe, is the likelihood he will not continue to reach out to the SSPX, they may be lost to us.

What damage would be done by opposing the Extraordinary Form?

As far as reaching out to the SSPX, I too doubt it will be a priority.

 

[godisgood77]

What damage would be done by opposing the Extraordinary Form?

As far as reaching out to the SSPX, I too doubt it will be a priority.

I agree that it probably won’t be Francis’ priority. It really shouldn’t be. Hopefully, SSPX will come back to the Church.

 

[Iron_Donkey]

Just thought I’d throw in this, via Fr. Z. I’m not a EF guy myself (though I do think making it more available would be undeniably good), but thought some of you might be interested to know that as bishop of Buenos Aires, the pope set up an EF mass within 48 hours of Summorum Pontificum:

wdtprs.com/blog/2013/03/card-bergoglio-in-2007-after-summorum-pontificum/

Of course, it’s not in English, so I can’t read it, but the eminently sane Fr. Z says this is what it says.

 

[TimothyH]

I’m paraphrasing here, but I just watched the Holy Fathers first Mass and in his homily he said: the Church is a Church of movement, but not all movement is good, sometimes it takes you backwards.

This type of language makes me uneasy.

I thought going back was what traditionalists want.

-Tim-