Pope Francis Calls for Reform in Liturgical Music

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Do you know why Gregorian chant isn’t done in your parish?

I’m going to be up-front here–I can’t stand Gregorian chant. As a former Protestant, I do not associate it with worship at all. I don’t like music that meanders around. I prefer a strong melody line and harmony. And I really don’t like any music that is in a different language.

But I know that others do like it very much, and if your parish has more than one Mass on Sundays (Saturday vigil), then I don’t see why it can’t be incorporated if you are able to sing it and hopefully recruit and teach others (mainly men?) how to do it, too. Why isn’t this happening?

Every once in a while, I play for a Latin Mass parish that has an excellent men’s group that chants the Mass. I don’t like the music, but I think all the men in the group are very fine people and so I listen politely. They are always working to bring other men and older boys into their group, and have teaching sessions on a fairly regular basis. I don’t know of anyone outside of their parish who has joined them, but they don’t really get into the OF parishes to ask. I probably do more PR for them than anyone!
 
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I would love it if musicians at parishes would heed what he is saying. It would be awesome. I think a lot of musicians think if they just keep playing the same “easy” songs sooner or later the parishioners will join in. I think many are starting to tune out of the hymns.

Plus there are some well known Catholic hymns that are easy to play and sing but you just rarely hear them. Many people are tired of the protestant hymns.
 
I don’t just say that Gregorian Chant belongs in the Liturgy because I like it or it nakedness me feel good. I say that because the Church says it and has said it in the past and by its nature, it lifts the soul to God.
 
Does it really lift the soul to God?

It frightens me. It’s very eerie. And it’s monotonous.

I’ve been Catholic 14 years now and have had plenty of time to learn to like it. I even bought several CDs of the it and forced myself to listen to it. Really didn’t like it, and still don’t.

I’m not trying to knock you down here–I’m just saying that we can’t make assumptions about music preferences and how music will affect people. There are lots of people who love the St. Louis Jesuits music and consider it the True Catholic Music.
 
What Protestant hymns (other than Amazing Grace) do you think should be jettisoned?
 
I disagree. They all know what is meant but some are satisfied with ‘deformations of the liturgy.’ What they want matters first.
 
I suspect every parish has their own list of protestant hymns that are sung frequently. Yes, Amazing Grace is one, also, It Is Well With My Soul.
 
The lifting of the soul to God doesn’t necessarily mean it will make you feel good.
 
Don’t worry–as the aging process progresses, you will hear fewer and fewer of those high notes 😜😱🤣:roll_eyes:

More seriously, the woman who serves as cantor on Saturdays at my byzantine parish was hitting a range that was at the edge of my threshold of pain (but in fairness, I used to hear way above the usual range). A decade later, I started thinking she might be lower, and then realized that it was more likely my range had decreased . . .

While I"m at it . . .

Setting hymns to drinking songs so the average person could sing along was probably the one thing Luther got right . . .

The tune to the legendarily unsinkable Star Spangled Banner is from a drinking song–but set in a higher key.
ColorMomma said:
To sing quietly, people don’t need much air, and thus they prefer lower pitches. If people use a lot of air, they can sing higher but they risk the exposure of singing louder.
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I can sing low and loudly enough to fill an auditorium. Sometimes loud enough to drown out the screams of the folks fleeing in terror! 😱😳🤯😜

hawk, who can’t tell a B from a G, anyway . . .
 
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rondirect said:
I am. I’ll add that to my list. I think a hymn written in 1779 falls into the older traditional hymn column.
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Modernist! (just kidding!)

I sing in a Gregorian chant schola. I think 13th century is “modern music” 😉

We only sing at the OF incidentally. But mostly by accident, not design. There is no licit EF within reasonable distance.

We did offer to sing at a joint EF/OF parish some distance away as one of our choristers split his time between this parish and the small city we sing in. We offered to sing Monastic Sunday Vespers because it was “traditional” (6th century!) and licit in both pre- and post-Conciliar versions. Alas the parish is so divided, the EF and OF crowds refused to be in the church together. If we were to use the pre-Conciliar version, the OF crowd wouldn’t come and if we were to use the post-Conciliar version, the EF crowd wouldn’t come.

Very disturbing.
 
Wesrock said:
A lot of contemporary music is sung in keys where I can’t hit anything written as a D (sometimes C or even B! depending upon the song) or higher. It’s really discouraging.
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Yep, the folks who publish hymnals assume everyone in the pews is a soprano!! Thankfully, we have well trained pianist/organist who can transpose when I cantor. Many people tell me they appreciate when I cantor Mass because they can actually sing along.
 
You don’t like It is Well with My Soul?

Do you know the history of the song, under what circumstances it was written?

It’s probably one of my top favorite hymns, up there in the Top Five.
 
Did I say it would make me feel good?

I learned a long time ago (over 50 years), back when I was in 2nd Grade, that our relationship with God does NOT depend on our feelings.

But at the same time, I don’t think that music in church should summon up visions of witches and monsters. That’s what chant does for me. I’m very willing to allow other people to enjoy chant and I recognize that for Catholics, it helps them to bring their minds and hearts to a place where they can concentrate on God and shut out all the worldly distractions.

But it doesn’t do that for me and I think that many other Protestants might just say the same thing. And maybe not.

The key is–I’m willing to give and take, and I think that this is important for all Christians–to put up with hymns and styles that they personally don’t like because others DO like them.

And at the moment, the OF Mass allows for this. Tonight at Mass, we sang (and I played) a mixture of styles–some Haugen, some St. Francis, some ancient hymns, some less ancient hymns, some organ, some piano–it was very nice.

I would like to know more specifics about what Pope Francis had in mind when he made this speech. What I personally think is that he wasn’t thinking in terms of music styles or certain composers–I think he was commenting on the way so many Catholics don’t participate, and spend the hymn time doing everything but singing and thinking about the words. To me, THAT is what makes liturgical music banal–when no one joins in the song. The Psalms are full of admonitions to SING, and when we get the opportunity to sing TOGETHER, with other Christians–we shouldn’t pass it up. It’s not like you can conjure up 500 people at your hourse to all sing Holy God We Praise Thy Name!
 
“Regina Caeli” makes you think of witches and monsters?

Heh, I will have to find you some “cheery chant” like “Regina Caeli.” There are some very energetic melodies in the chant repertoire!
 
Yes it’s a little hard for me to understand exactly what he means.

Personally… I think there are many great hymns and songs in the Church we never use. I’ve been finding a whole lot in my Breviary lately.

I also think we could stand a little variety. “Holy God we praise Thy name” after reposing the Blessed Sacrament is a good example. Great song, very appropriate, but does it have to be the same every time?

just mho from a non-musician.
 
I do know the tradgedy behind the song. And there are some things about the song that I would agree with. Mostly in that, despite the tradgedies and sufferings we go through in this life, it is extremely important to trust God, to lift our sufferings up to Him. Also, to accept His will.

There is something else, though, that the lyrics point to and that is the certitude of salvation, of knowing for sure when death comes, the soul goes straight to heaven.

That is not biblical. We know that Christ died for our sins and Jesus gave us everything needed for salvation. We proclaim we have an assurance of salvation. We just don’t have absolute certitude of our salvation.
 
Peeps said:
Does it really lift the soul to God?

It frightens me. It’s very eerie. And it’s monotonous.

I’ve been Catholic 14 years now and have had plenty of time to learn to like it. I even bought several CDs of the it and forced myself to listen to it. Really didn’t like it, and still don’t.

I’m not trying to knock you down here–I’m just saying that we can’t make assumptions about music preferences and how music will affect people. There are lots of people who love the St. Louis Jesuits music and consider it the True Catholic Music.
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I agree. My Pastor agrees. My music ministry agrees.
semper_catholicus said:
and by its nature, it lifts the soul to God.
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How is that? Any liturgical song that you love to sing at Mass does that.
 
It depends on your life experiences.

I’ve found that there are Christians who cannot accept or listen to any kind of “rock” music in a church setting or even out of church, even if it’s Christian rock sung by artists that they know are solid and orthodox in their Christian faith! The reason has to do with their life history–many Christians my age (over 60) lived through a time when rock music was synonymous with rebellion and rejection of all authority and addiction to really bad drugs. So while some Christians will hear worshipful messages in Matt Maher’s music, others will not be able to hear anything except “tune in, turn on, and drop out,” or “Don’t trust anyone over 30.”

My husband can’t stand Bach or any kind of baroque music–it’s too “frantic” for him. It makes him nervous and edgy (he takes meds, BTW.). So different that what I feel like when I hear (or play) Bach–I find it the most glorious music this side of heaven.

I know Christians who can’t stomach “Gospel” music because of bad memories of gospel artists who lived double lives singing Gospel and doing drugs or alcohol. I love Gospel music, again, because I’m willing to accept that just because some people misbehave doesn’t make the music bad.

I can see why Catholics find chant glorious and ethereal. I don’t. If my parish did a little chant, I could wait it out. But if the entire Mass were chant, I think I would have to seek out a different parish/Mass. I’m very thankful that my parish provides several Masses with different music styles in each Mass. It’s very kind of them to accept “different strokes for different folks.” One thing I really don’t agree with at all is Catholics who say that ALL Masses everywhere should be exactly alike.
 
Wesrock said:
A lot of contemporary music is sung in keys where I can’t hit anything written as a D (sometimes C or even B! depending upon the song) or higher. It’s really discouraging.

I find that older, more traditional stand bys or, perhaps unsurprisingly, old American folk hymns (not exactly traditional) far easier to sing.

But this could probably be corrected by simply using a different key and not so much an issue with whether or not something is “contemporary.”
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As a musician, you are confusing the “key” the music is written in and the “range” of the of the notes in a hymn/song in any “key.” The key a song is written in has nothing to do with the range of the notes the composer uses in that key. The key just indicates what notes are naturally sharps or flats. Also, some keys lend themselves to a more somber or brighter sound.

And by the way, many songs and hymns are very singable by almost anyone even if the highest note is a D in any key. My alto cantors have no problem with a D; an E gets a little tougher. A D is 3 half steps above a B. No one should have an issue singing a B. “Holy God We Praise…” has been mentioned here many times. In the “key of F (one flat, a B flat),” the typical key this song is written in, goes as high as a D at the end of the verses…very singable.
 
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