Pope Francis challenged Trump on his Jerusalem decision at the Vatican and on Instagram

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Many Israeli individuals, including such as Avraham Burg, Ilan Pappé, Gershom Gorenberg, David Remnick, Oren Yiftachel, and Miko Peled and organisations as Human Rights Watch, B’tselem, Peace Now and others have questioned Israel’s status as a democracy.
 
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Don’t forget this document!

Statement by EU High Representative Catherine Ashton
on demolition and settlements in East Jerusalem
Catherine Ashton, High Representative of the European Union for Foreign Affairs and Security
Policy, and Vice President of the European Commission made today the following statement:
"I strongly condemn this morning’s demolition of the Shepherd Hotel and the planned construction of a new illegal settlement. I reiterate that settlements are illegal under international law,
undermine trust between the parties and constitute an obstacle to peace. Furthermore, we recall
that East Jerusalem is part of occupied Palestinian territory; the EU does not recognise the
annexation by Israel.
We are also concerned by the recent upsurge of violence in the Occupied Palestinian territory, and
deeply regret the loss of life. We call on all parties to exercise restraint, and for a halt to all
violence.
 
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All of the Catholics here on CAF who are calling for the Pope to mind his own business…and dismissing the views of the local Catholic hierarchy on the ground in Palestine… I assume you also likewise decried St John Paul II when he urged President Bush to not invade Iraq…and dismissed the local Catholic hierarchy on the ground who also begged him to reconsider? Every Pope is political. It would be sinful for a Pope not to speak out when he sees moral implications.
 
Anasthasy,there are interesting analysis which I will try and find( it is really Christmas time and there is a lot of family around to receive and host right now …).I haven t been able to read the last links you posted yet but I am interested in reading them.
These studies deal with a very deep issue of identity and mutual.acknolwedgement and recognition.Studies from Conflict Resolution,ADR and the like.
And there is this issue of the industry of weaponry that is indeed an industry and has its own interests and shameful.sometimes . We know…unfortunately and to our shame,first hand…
The people between crossfire break our hearts. Children are children… Dear little souls…
So much effort for peace ,so many years,will this ever stop?
As soon as I can find these analysis ,I will post them. Some are extensive but well,search for solutions has taken up time and effort of people of good will throughout.And much prayer.
 
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ATraveller said:
Jerusalem was supposed to be independent of both Israel and the Palestinians, likely to avoid such conflicts. Does anyone know exactly why that didn’t happen?
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Because after the war, Israel annexed all of Jerusalem and move their capital to Jerusalem decades ago.
 
Exactly, the pope dismissing the considerations that our president has worked through leading to his decision is wrong of the pope.
 
Athanasiy said:
So for you its normal when Palestinian villages were deliberately destroyed, civilians were massacred, and millions of men, women, and children were expelled from their homes at gunpoint" its not ethnic cleansing, its a Holy God, right?
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that is one version of how they left.

here are some statements from others

hmmm
"The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny but, instead they abandoned them, forced them to immigrate and to leave their home land, imposed upon them a political and ideological blockade and threw them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live in eastern Europe, as if we were condemned to change places with them. The Arab states succeeded in scattering the Palestinians and in destroying their unity.”
abu-mazen (Falastin el-Th’ora,beirut, march 1976)
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Secretary General of the Arab League, Azzam Pasha, agreed that Arab leadership encouraged Palestinians to temporarily leave their homes:
“It was promised that conquering Palestine would be a military picnic, our advice to the Palestinians was to temporarily leave their homes” (Al-Huda, Lebanon June 5th, 1951).
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Syrian Prime Minister, Khalid Al-Azam (in his book Memories, 1973) laments and writes:
“We brought disaster on the refugees, when we urged them to abandon their homes”
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gathered by Tim Benton on quora. com
 
Athanasiy said:
Statement by EU High Representative Catherine Ashton
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eu? so what?
the organization is anti-israel?

international law? how did the arabs get control of the land? it has always been by conquest. why is it wrong now?

read art 24 of the palestinian national charter of 1964. i posted it prior. the pnc didn’t claim the area in 1964.
 
Of course Christmas is coming, someone is celebrating it in the military barracks, others celebrate it in their tents, because they loose their homes, but thanks to the Pope I think that refugees from Eastern Ukraine, the Syrians and the Palestinians deserve some justice for Christmas.
Therefore- God Bless Pope Francis!
 
Honestly, I have never seen any evidence that President Trump deliberates about anything, and if he did, I would have to assume that any “considerations he worked through” would somehow be to his own personal benefit.

But that is neither here nor there. The Pope did not “dismiss” what happened, but instead, made an appeal that consideration be made of agreements with the UN, and the impact of such an announcement on a fragile peace in the region.
 
Yes,God bless him,and Benedict this Christmas,who must be praying day in day out,and St John Paul giving them strength from above…
And may the Lord remember the lonely and suffering this Christmas …
 
PJH_74 said:
It was preceded by claims, counterclaims and maneuvering, but the 6-day war was a highly effective preemptive strike by Israel with the Arabs clumsily responding.
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PJH_74 said:
Again, Israel really pulled the trigger first and the Holy Land is not Maple Syrup.
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I beg to differ on two counts:
  1. Egypt imposed a naval blockade on Israel, blocking shipments to and from the port of Eliat on the southern tip of Israel. At the time, the port was the only way that Israel could get oil (the Shah of Iran was selling it to them under the table, and he was furious that Egypt imposed the blockade, thus cutting into his profits.) and so the blockade posed an existential threat to Israel. For two weeks the US tried to assemble a coalition of nations to run the blockade and break it, but no one wanted to get involved.
Understand that a naval blockade of a nation’s ports is a de facto act of war under international law, as much as the attack on Pearl Harbor was an act of war.
  1. In the days before June 6, both Syria and Transjordan made speeches in the UN against Israel and pointing out that they had never signed treaties with Israel. IOW, there were only armistices and a state of war still existed between those countries and Israel. In retrospect, they were setting the ground for their own attacks – if a state of war already existed then it couldn’t be an unprovoked act of war, could it? They failed to consider that if that logic held, then nothing Israel did to defend itself could be considered “pre-emptive”.
So if Egypt had engaged in an act of war against Israel AND active states of war with those countries existed, how can you say that “Israel pulled the trigger first”?

You may enjoy the book “Foxbats Over Dimona”. It’s about the events leading up to the 6-Day War and the role that the Soviet Union had in stoking the fires, mostly through feeding the Arab states false intelligence. The Foxbat was the NATO designation of a new supersonic fighter, which didn’t officially exist at the time but which the Soviets had secretly supplied along with pilots to Egypt, who was a client state. The USSR had planned to wait until Syria reached the sea cutting Israel in two then landing forces to support this war of liberation. In fact, they were loading the troops onto the landing craft and were about two hours from landing when someone in Moscow did the math, and realized that if the Syrians had in fact advanced as much as they were claiming in news reports, they would have advanced several dozen kilometers out into the sea. The invasion was called off just in time.

Oh, and I agree: the Holy Land is not maple syrup. It is the Land of Milk and Honey.
 
Methinks there needs to be far less Twittering on both sides. A look at the USCCB website shows that it seems primarily to support the liberal wing of the Catholic political party.

Didn’t know that party existed.
 
We are here wondering on an individual level.
To think out loud to anyone is not forbidden in democratic societies.
As for the people who are diplomatically involved in different political processes , there everything is different.
Representatives of many countries that depend on aid and patronage of the United States as from the oxygen, just going to do what is beneficial to Trump.
In situations when on the agenda are existential survival, in every sense of the word, for many much more profitable just to keep quiet.
 
Especially when Donald Trump threatened to cut off financial aid to countries that vote in favor of a draft United Nations resolution calling for the United States to withdraw its decision to recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.
“They take hundreds of millions of dollars and even billions of dollars, and then they vote against us. Well, we’re watching those votes. Let them vote against us. We’ll save a lot. We don’t care,” Trump told reporters at the White House.
So, its more politically “profitable” and “safe” for many countries just to submit, for the reason that protests on this issue are not conducive to their selfish state/national prosperity.
 
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The results of the vote show twice in a week that it is quite isolated.
This last one was 9 against the text: Guatemala, Honduras, Islas Marshall, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau ,Togo ,US and Israel.
128 in favor.
35 abstentions.

What Nicki Haley said probably had some effect: “We will take note of each and every vote on this issue,” she wrote.
Well…
One can one say?
In pencil or permanent marker?
All it takes is a few years until the next election,almost always,almost everywhere in our planet…
It was all over the news anyway,the results are somehow predictable. And what one really doesn’t know is if he expected otherwise or what…
Anyway,they are all members,and equals,and they have their turns to get the mic and speak.
Everything passes…
 
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Athanasiy said:
Especially when Donald Trump threatened to cut off financial aid to countries that vote in favor of a draft United Nations resolution calling for the United States to withdraw its decision to recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.

“They take hundreds of millions of dollars and even billions of dollars, and then they vote against us. Well, we’re watching those votes. Let them vote against us. We’ll save a lot. We don’t care,” Trump told reporters at the White House.
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He has a lifetime of experience “not caring” about the needs of others, and using his wealth and power to bully others into compliance. This is one reason so many people wanted him elected. He is good at it!
 
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