Pope Francis claims global economy is close to collapse and describes youth unemployment rates as an ‘atrocity’ in damning message

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Historically, banks issued notes without government oversight. That ended with the creation of the federal reserve which centralized the issuance of notes under the quasi-independent central bank. Supposedly this was to end bank runs and that was largely achieved.
The bank runs that could have taken place in 2008 were achieved by the government bailing out Wall Street banks at the public’s expense. The bail out money was used for more financial speculation, which was the cause of the 2008 crash.
Your stubborn denial of socialist influence on government is ahistorical. You should read up on WWI and its political aftermath. One place that you will find still find a legacy of many state corporations is China and they called it communism.
That’s my point: they call it communist, or it is seen as socialist, but it is actually state capitalist.
 
Most of money supply is not made of paper or coin but are numbers in hard drives.
That’s correct but we figuratively still call it printing money and show massive amounts of paper produced with green ink on them.
 
The bank runs that could have taken place in 2008 were achieved by the government bailing out Wall Street banks at the public’s expense. The bail out money was used for more financial speculation, which was the cause of the 2008 crash.
Well, they certainly don’t see it that way. They think they saved capitalism.

There is a genuine debate about the benefit and cost of central banking. Even Pope John Paul put in a good word for central bankers. I’m less enthusiastic but I don’t regard them as greedy.
That’s my point: they call it communist, or it is seen as socialist, but it is actually state capitalist.
Alright, now we are clear: you are simply redefining communism as prefixed capitalism.
 
Not the same, literally, but the same principle at work. What people seem to forget is that Europe has tried to guarantee work. That’s why their labor laws are so rigid. And this has caused much higher unemployment than elsewhere, most severaly affecting the young who are, in many different ways, locked out.
The cause of increasing youth unemployment is not guarantee of work but failure to expand businesses. The reason why the latter took place is because investors chose to engage in financial speculation rather than to earn from increased production and consumption of goods. That’s why the notional value of the global unregulated derivatives market alone is twenty times the size of the global economy.

“Top Derivatives Expert Estimates Size of the Global Derivatives Market at $1,200 Trillion Dollars … 20 Times Larger than the Global Economy”

washingtonsblog.com/2012/05/top-derivatives-expert-finally-gives-a-credible-estimate-of-the-size-of-the-global-derivatives-market.html

The 2008 crash, which is still causing havoc today, started with only a fraction of that global market.
More generally, politicians have been promising to eliminate risk from life in many different ways including, as we are discussing here, the risk of recession. Far from being greedy, the federal reserve is doing what it think it is supposed to do: pump up the economy and prevent economic downturn. Among the perverse effects is growing inequality due to rising asset prices.
You are not countering my arguments. If any, you are only reinforcing what I said.
The absolute absurdity of your position is this: you claim that the government is a captive of the ‘financil elite’ and then you demand more power for the government to reguate business and then you are shocked, shocked, that you get crony capitalism.
I did not argue that the government will succeed in regulating businesses.
Anyone who expected emplyers to hire because they got bailouts is a fool. Employers hire when the value of labor is greater than the cost.
But who will buy the products and services sold by companies if not the same workers?
Interestingly, many make the exact opposite claim, that poverty destroys families.
Poverty can destroy families for several reasons, but what drives the points you raised earlier, such as entitlement and population aging, is prosperity, and that accelerates thanks to free market capitalism.

However, the same type of economy can also lead to financial speculation, which is what led to the 2008 crash, and now causing greater unemployment, among other problems.

Governments cannot regulate if they could not do so from the start, which very much explains why increased deregulation led to the 2008 crash.

Looming behind this problem are two more significant ones: a resource crunch and environmental damage coupled with global warming. Pope Francis has spoken about the latter. I think the former will be actively discussed during the next few years, especially when it comes to oil.
If all unemplyment grows then speicfic unemployment will grow. But nobody has shown, much less proven, that any recession causes youth unemployment to diverge. We have had many recession and depressions throughout history and none has ever had that effect.
Recession does not cause youth unemployment but makes it grow.

The reason why this recession is different from the past is that it stems from a global unregulated derivatives market that is huge.
But there is historical precedence for this. As recently as the 1950s black youth unemployment was lower than white youth unemployment. Then government decided to be compassionate by raising the minum wage and providing generous welfare. Needless to say, black youth unemployment skyrocketed so that today few people can imagine that it was ever otherwise.
We can see this as historical precedence only if we can assume that the world labor group consists of black and white youths working in the same industries.

Please provide evidence, similar to what the ILO and others have said, to support your claims about minimum wage, demographics, etc.
 
Well, they certainly don’t see it that way. They think they saved capitalism.
Exactly.
There is a genuine debate about the benefit and cost of central banking. Even Pope John Paul put in a good word for central bankers. I’m less enthusiastic but I don’t regard them as greedy.
The Fed is not exactly a central bank, i.e., compared to those found in other countries.
Alright, now we are clear: you are simply redefining communism as prefixed capitalism.
It’s the other way round: what is state capitalism is being redefined as communism or socialism.
 
No, you were right. I’ll save the point I was trying to make till some other time. Good posts and I enjoy discussing the Fed and its actions.
The FED is one of my favorite things to discuss but that is probably because I hate that institution with a passion 🙂

If you want to talk about gold standards and fiat money, I’m game.
 
The Fed is not exactly a central bank, i.e., compared to those found in other countries.
Actually, most major economies have semi-independent central banks. Central banks are designed to avoid the tendency of sovereigns to use the currency for the benefit of the treasury.
It’s the other way round: what is state capitalism is being redefined as communism or socialism.
I suppose we could agree that we need less communistic capitalism but I suspect you are more inclined towards less capitalistic communism.
 
The cause of increasing youth unemployment is not guarantee of work but failure to expand businesses. The reason why the latter took place is because investors chose to engage in financial speculation rather than to earn from increased production and consumption of goods. That’s why the notional value of the global unregulated derivatives market alone is twenty times the size of the global economy.
You seem to want to attribute all economic ills to financial speculation. In fact, though, there are real, practical hurdles to running a business in Europe. It makes a very big difference to a company whether or not they can lay off employees in a downturn or when the employees are simply not doing their job. Given that reality, business prefer to be conservative in their hiring. That has nothing to do with financial speculation.
You are not countering my arguments. If any, you are only reinforcing what I said.
Not everything I write is intended to counter your arguments, not everything you say is wrong. But your obsession with the ‘financial elite’ is the achilles heel of your thinking.
I did not argue that the government will succeed in regulating businesses.
Then why bother arguing for more regulation of finance?
But who will buy the products and services sold by companies if not the same workers?
Japan and China both expanded wildly on an export model that did not rely on the “same workers” buying their products.
Poverty can destroy families for several reasons, but what drives the points you raised earlier, such as entitlement and population aging, is prosperity, and that accelerates thanks to free market capitalism.
Entitlement is a politiucal and phenomenon arising from a disconnection between work and reward. While families are certainly guilty of encouraging some of that, the far more guilty party has been politics of government. Free market capitalism does not encourage entitlement because of the very risks that we are discussing. When people experience and see failure they do not become entitled. Only when risk is eliminated does entitlement arise.
However, the same type of economy can also lead to financial speculation, which is what led to the 2008 crash, and now causing greater unemployment, among other problems.
As I noted previously, financial speculation is as old as credit. It is certainly not something new that can explain youth unemployment.
Governments cannot regulate if they could not do so from the start, which very much explains why increased deregulation led to the 2008 crash.
Looming behind this problem are two more significant ones: a resource crunch and environmental damage coupled with global warming. Pope Francis has spoken about the latter. I think the former will be actively discussed during the next few years, especially when it comes to oil.
The so-called ‘resoure crunch’ is a fundamental misunderstanding of economics, as we discussed previously.
Recession does not cause youth unemployment but makes it grow.
Thank you.
The reason why this recession is different from the past is that it stems from a global unregulated derivatives market that is huge.
No, every recession involves something different. Moreover, as I noted before, there will always be something unregulated because government can only regulate in hind sight. Even if regulation were a cure, which it is not, it can only close the barn door after the horses have left. And then it makes a profit on allowing friends to slip those regulations.
We can see this as historical precedence only if we can assume that the world labor group consists of black and white youths working in the same industries.
Please provide evidence, similar to what the ILO and others have said, to support your claims about minimum wage, demographics, etc.
No, we don’t need to view history so narrowly. You can easily find evidence on the phenomenon of black youth unemployment, it has been researched for decades.
 
Actually, most major economies have semi-independent central banks. Central banks are designed to avoid the tendency of sovereigns to use the currency for the benefit of the treasury.
So I take it that you support central banking in general and the Federal Reserve?
 
Let’s start with the US federal minimum wage.
The problem for the U.S. goes beyond the minimum wage. The economy is essentially one that involves heavy borrowing and spending across the board, and should probably be discussed in another thread.
 
Actually, most major economies have semi-independent central banks. Central banks are designed to avoid the tendency of sovereigns to use the currency for the benefit of the treasury.
The difference is that they don’t create the global reserve currency.
I suppose we could agree that we need less communistic capitalism but I suspect you are more inclined towards less capitalistic communism.
I don’t know what “communistic capitalism” or “capitalistic communism” are. All I know is that there are different types of capitalism, but they all lead towards the same problem: continuous economic growth needed for a world with physical limitations. The problem accelerates given free market capitalism, and that’s what we are now seeing.
 
You seem to want to attribute all economic ills to financial speculation. In fact, though, there are real, practical hurdles to running a business in Europe. It makes a very big difference to a company whether or not they can lay off employees in a downturn or when the employees are simply not doing their job. Given that reality, business prefer to be conservative in their hiring. That has nothing to do with financial speculation.
No, just the current issues referred to by Pope Francis.
Not everything I write is intended to counter your arguments, not everything you say is wrong. But your obsession with the ‘financial elite’ is the achilles heel of your thinking.
Not the Achilles’ heel but the lynch pin, and based on very obvious facts, including a global unregulated derivatives market with a notional value of over a quadrillion dollars.
Then why bother arguing for more regulation of finance?
I wasn’t arguing for that. All I am saying is that Pope Francis’ explanation of the problem is correct.
Japan and China both expanded wildly on an export model that did not rely on the “same workers” buying their products.
They did after. That’s why “Made in Japan” was replaced by other phrases, and China started outsourcing manufacturing of many parts that it assembles.

Where do you think the growing global middle class is coming from?

“The rise of the global middle class”

bbc.com/news/business-22956470
Entitlement is a politiucal and phenomenon arising from a disconnection between work and reward. While families are certainly guilty of encouraging some of that, the far more guilty party has been politics of government. Free market capitalism does not encourage entitlement because of the very risks that we are discussing. When people experience and see failure they do not become entitled. Only when risk is eliminated does entitlement arise.
Entitlement is a means to allow free market capitalism to expand. The consumer spending economy of the U.S. is based primarily on that, stemming from easy credit used to buy houses, in turn used to buy all sorts of consumer goods, and all part of a middle class lifestyle that was used to promote “the American dream.”
As I noted previously, financial speculation is as old as credit. It is certainly not something new that can explain youth unemployment.
That does not mean that the level of financial speculation today is the same as that of the past. This was explained in previous messages.
The so-called ‘resoure crunch’ is a fundamental misunderstanding of economics, as we discussed previously.
A resource crunch is based on the scientific fact that resources are limited. The notion that this may be solved through economics is based on the false notion that increased credit will automatically counter the laws of physics.
Thank you.
That was Pope Francis’ point. That’s why he referred to the increased percentage in youth unemployment and not its presence.
No, every recession involves something different. Moreover, as I noted before, there will always be something unregulated because government can only regulate in hind sight. Even if regulation were a cure, which it is not, it can only close the barn door after the horses have left. And then it makes a profit on allowing friends to slip those regulations.
I don’t understand why you start with “no,” as your argument supports what I said.

Also, the rest of your paragraph contradicts your first sentence.
No, we don’t need to view history so narrowly. You can easily find evidence on the phenomenon of black youth unemployment, it has been researched for decades.
Your first sentence is contradicted by your second sentence, as the example of black youth unemployment in the U.S. involves a narrow view of the issue.

Please focus on what the ILO said about the matter.
 
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