Pope Francis denounces 'pathology of indifference' and 'epidemic of animosity' toward outsiders
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DaveBj
Guest
That “epidemic of animosity” thing runs both ways. I don’t know for sure, but I think that the animosity of the guest toward their hosts came first.
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FollowChrist34
Guest
Indeed.
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Thomas_White
Guest
Amen.
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ShrodingersCat
Guest
- Failure to recognise that the actions of a few do not represent the rest of the guests IS the problem.
- In many cases America makes things a lot worse after meddling in the affairs of other countries due to its own vested interests. The least it can do is welcome the innocent victims who’s lives it helped destroy.
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josh987654321
Guest
Id first like to start by saying, I find it very difficult to trust certain news sources, who have the ability to filter what our Holy Father said and present it in a certain (mostly ambiguously deceptive) light.
But as for what is quoted here, the following verse comes to my mind -
Matthew 10:16-18:
I hope this has helped
God Bless You
Thank you for reading
Josh
But as for what is quoted here, the following verse comes to my mind -
Matthew 10:16-18:
If people were putting forth policies that were to ban any and all immigration, to build a giant wall and just shut themselves off from the rest of the world, I could understand, but when they are talking about precautions and concerns regarding immigration from Countries completely infiltrated with ISIS and ISIS sympathizers, than I think their concerns are very valid and very prudent.
I hope this has helped
God Bless You
Thank you for reading
Josh
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josh987654321
Guest
Even from an area that is heavily ISIS infiltrated and with ISIS Sympathizers? These people want to destroy your Country, and given the chance, I’m sure will not hesitate.
I believe we should be innocent as doves and try to find a way to help innocent victims caught up in the Middle East, but at the same time, we must be wise as snakes, because their are wolves out there who seek to destroy us, both at home and abroad.
I hope this has helped
God Bless You
Thank you for reading
Josh
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ShrodingersCat
Guest
Most definitely. Since the people in these places are most in need, we fail in our Christian duty if we refuse to help them. Think about it: what if a terrorist cell rose up in the USA. Do you think other countries would be justified in refusing asylum to your family on the basis that you were American? How would you feel if your sons or brothers could not escape conscription into a terrorist army or torture and execution for refusing? How would you feel if your sisters or daughters were forced to be sex slaves for violent men who see them as less than animals?
In addition, since america armed ISIS and largely contributed to this situation, you have more of a responsibility than most countries to help eth people who’s lives have been destroyed as a result.
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josh987654321
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- I do believe Obama’s administration armed ISIS and largely contributed to this situation, which is why I am absolutely against them trying to help, they have been trying to help, and through their help we have ISIS, heavily armed, funded and widespread. They can’t tell good from bad.
- I live in Australia, but I will adopt your hypothetical.
Secondly, I would be trying to immigrate, and I would hope that a Country would take me in, but I would also hope that Country were wise, and vetted me, and if they couldn’t vet me, that they would try and set up some kind of safe zone where they could protect me until I were vetted, so that ISIS infiltrators and sympathizers can’t come along right after me, if a Country had open borders, I would immigrate to that Country, than immigrate to another from there so that those terrorists could not follow to where I was fleeing and I would consider the Country with open borders I initially fled to as silly and dangerous for not vetting.
I would also hope such a Country were very wise, and didn’t announce they were taking X amount of refugees from X place, because you know as soon as you get in that line, ISIS are going to be looking at you.
The US and other Countries who have adopted or advocated for open borders cannot tell the good guys from the bad guys (Until a bomb goes off or someone is killed/hurt) and this is of major concern I believe.
A key factor is if they don’t know their enemy, they cannot possibly vet those who are immigrating. It’s clear they cannot tell the enemy (Obama’s administration), because they armed them to begin with.
I hope this has helped
God Bless You
Thank you for reading
Josh
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Contra_Mundum_1
Guest
These are truly difficult situations, and I don’t doubt that many refugees are in need. But the way you phrase the question is emotional blackmail. You are suggesting that everyone needs to be assumed innocent until proven otherwise, despite the evidence in Europe that many of the supposed refugees are actually economic migrants, young single men. Are you suggesting that the (assumed) refugees have more rights than your countrymen? Should you not want safety for your country first, and make sure that those who are admitted are not dangerous people? Why are the foreigners favoured over one’s own?
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josh987654321
Guest
It reminds me that the first thing they teach people in rescue services such as police, ambulance etc, that before you run in to save someone, you asses the danger and surroundings. There is no point running in to save someone in a bath tub to find there is still electricity flowing through the water and end up getting electrocuted yourself.
God Bless You
Thank you for reading
Josh
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ShrodingersCat
Guest
They aren’t, but as Christians we must help those in need. Simple as. Young men are strong enough to flee Syria and survive. Young men are also the ones that will have to choose between fighting for Assad or ISIS or the rebels. If they don’t want to fight, what are they to do but flee?
Refugees have the same rights as all other humans. I currently have all of my rights under the UNHCR; the Syrians do not.
The problem with vetting (and I have nothing against it), is that it is being used as an excuse for countries to basically keep out refugees. In a crisis, there is an element of having to assume that people are innocent if you can’t afford detailed background checks, rather than leaving them in subhuman conditions for months or years.
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ShrodingersCat
Guest
Well, the Syrians might not want the help of the US, but they NEED asylum. And it is their human right.
Your utopian refugee situation would be good if it could work. But the camps in Calais and other places prove that there is no such thing as a ‘safe zone’.
And you speak of immigration. You can’t immigrate to a country if you are fleeing a war zone; it is next to impossible. Perhaps, if you were highly educated and well-off. That would still leave out a lot of poorer unskilled workers.
At the end of the day, you cannot leave innocent people, the primary victims of ISIS, to suffer because of your fear for your own safety. Your bathtub analogy does not back up your position because in that situation you do a quick check to ensure it is safe and then save the person. In the refugee situation, you are leaving millions to suffer and die while you painstakingly check the temperature of the water that the person is in to make sure that you don’t scald yourself, then checking that the tiles are not slippy, then making sure that the ceiling is structurally sound.
In every situation there is a reasonable number of precautions that should be taken. In emergencies, yes, you must priorities the human rights of refugees over your own fears for what might happen if a few bad guys get in. And bad guys WILL get in. But it doesn’t negate ones responsibility as a Christian to help those in need.
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josh987654321
Guest
And the problem with this, is that they can’t seem to see that Islamic State, claims it’s influence from Islam, and not other religious minorities such as Christians, Buddhists, Jews etc whom such people would need very little vetting at all and could be accepted right away, but for some reason they don’t want to do that because they think it would look like favoritism and be charged with ‘Islamophobic’.
Until a tragedy strikes at home because one assumed wrongly. If your taking in refuges from Syria and Iraq, you are guaranteed to get ISIS affiliates and ISIS sympathizers if you don’t vet them properly, let alone them assimilating from an Islamic culture into a Christian/Secular culture.
Muhammad married Aisha at age 6 and consummated their marriage at age 9, that is pedophilia over here (And Muhammad who they believe is the last and greatest prophet they agree did that, so how could they be against it or agree with our laws in such a matter?), we do not condone polygamy, nor do we have some of the things in Sharia Law. So whether we like it or not, there is an issue with Islamic ideology, and it needs to be recognized I believe before accepting refugees or else I will be against it.
I agree that’s not right either, I believe there should be a safe zone in places like Iraq, where the US can fortify and defend.
Nevertheless, the solution to this is not to take in thousands of un-vetted Muslim refugees from places like Syria and Iraq. Christian, Buddhist and Jewish refugees are a different story I believe, but people seem to object to that, because they don’t know much about Islam, Christianity or Judaism, and hence they think they can hold hands with all sorts of world views and sing kumbaya.
I hope this has helped
God Bless You
Thank you for reading
Josh
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Oneofthewomen
Guest
I snipped this out, to address this point.
While I do understand what you are saying, and in many cases , I agree with you, I still can’t help to wonder why leave?
Why not say in your country, and do what you can to help make it better?
Why flee to places that and then expect to set up the same type of society that you just fled?
This is what I do not understand. If you want out of your oppressive country, why are you coming to mine and still oppressing your women?
I live in Western NY, we have seen a very large uptick in the population of Middle Eastern & African Muslim refugees. The women, although now living in a free country, are still very much so oppressed by the men. Tribal customs, especially the wearing of burkas and “child” marriages are still practiced. Young girls are not allowed to play outside with other children if there are boys, and in many cases are not allowed to pursue any education after they turn 16. Many of the young women & girls are seen as nothing more than ‘slave labor’, handling all of the household chores & child care while the men are out, sometimes working, but not always. Many have been settled in my neighborhood, I see lots of men hanging out at local markets and storefront mosques.
I am all for helping those who need it. However, if you, as a refugee, are going to come here and try to turn our nation into same thing that you left, that is when I begin to have a problem.
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Contra_Mundum_1
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This is what parts of Brussels, The Hague, London, Paris and Marseilles - among many other cities- look like. Locals avoid these ghettos, while the authorities pretend they don’t exist. The police doesn’t go in there. Sharia law is freely practiced, but officially that doesn’t happen. Absolutely shameful. But this is what Islam brings, and it is completely rational to dislike that kind of thing and to want to keep it away from one’s country. All those bleeding heart liberals who refuse to see Islam for what it is should stay in a nice Islamic country for at least a year. Then we’ll talk.
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abucs
Guest
There are many ways to help people. Continually allowing millions of people to migrate from the world’s trouble spots to the West, time after time is not a solution. It creates many more problems than it solves.
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Michael_Mayo
Guest
How so, in the context of refugees?
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Sarcelle
Guest
There are elements among the refugees who view compassion as weakness.
No use denying there is. There are elements who view compassion as a weakness to be exploited. Islam is a militaristic religion. Again no use denying it isn’t. If the means or a weakness is found, there will be jihadists who will take full advantage of it.
Are all refugees like this? Of course not, but not all of them are peaceful either. The peaceful ones will be relieved when the more violent members are prevented from spreading their poison to the host countries. There is no reason why we shouldn’t exercise prudence in the exercise of compassion.
For those who believe that Islam is not a militaristic religion, try living in a Muslim country. I have and it is quite obvious.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
I’m not sure what the Pope meant by this statement, and perhaps sometime he’ll further explain.
But on the assumption (and I’m not sure it’s a good one) he means we in the West need to admit people from Muslim front-line states without limitation or preference, one might want to consider where refugees might go when there is no longer a place of refuge.
For example, are parts of France, Britain, Germany and even some smallish locations in the U.S. where Islam dominates truly “refuges” anymore? Is France a “refuge” for Jews nowadays? Seems it isn’t since Jews are leaving there due to harassment by Muslims.
I recall some historian’s assertion (I can no longer recall who) that when the Arab conquerers from Arabia took Palestine and Syria, they “brought the desert with them”, in that, over centuries of misrule they turned a fruitful land into a desolate one.
And so, we might ask ourselves whether some of the refugees (if that’s what they truly are) “bring Middle Eastern jihadism with them” or “bring Somali chaos with them”.
I have sometimes thought the time may come when Christians in Europe and elsewhere may flee their homelands if Islamic jihadism becomes too much to bear where they were born. If so, it would be nice if there were a few “refuges” left, such as the U.S.
But on the assumption (and I’m not sure it’s a good one) he means we in the West need to admit people from Muslim front-line states without limitation or preference, one might want to consider where refugees might go when there is no longer a place of refuge.
For example, are parts of France, Britain, Germany and even some smallish locations in the U.S. where Islam dominates truly “refuges” anymore? Is France a “refuge” for Jews nowadays? Seems it isn’t since Jews are leaving there due to harassment by Muslims.
I recall some historian’s assertion (I can no longer recall who) that when the Arab conquerers from Arabia took Palestine and Syria, they “brought the desert with them”, in that, over centuries of misrule they turned a fruitful land into a desolate one.
And so, we might ask ourselves whether some of the refugees (if that’s what they truly are) “bring Middle Eastern jihadism with them” or “bring Somali chaos with them”.
I have sometimes thought the time may come when Christians in Europe and elsewhere may flee their homelands if Islamic jihadism becomes too much to bear where they were born. If so, it would be nice if there were a few “refuges” left, such as the U.S.
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