Pope Francis denounces 'pathology of indifference' and 'epidemic of animosity' toward outsiders

[Convert_in_99]

I’m not sure what the Pope meant by this statement, and perhaps sometime he’ll further explain.

But on the assumption (and I’m not sure it’s a good one) he means we in the West need to admit people from Muslim front-line states without limitation or preference, one might want to consider where refugees might go when there is no longer a place of refuge.

For example, are parts of France, Britain, Germany and even some smallish locations in the U.S. where Islam dominates truly “refuges” anymore? Is France a “refuge” for Jews nowadays? Seems it isn’t since Jews are leaving there due to harassment by Muslims.

I recall some historian’s assertion (I can no longer recall who) that when the Arab conquerers from Arabia took Palestine and Syria, they “brought the desert with them”, in that, over centuries of misrule they turned a fruitful land into a desolate one.

And so, we might ask ourselves whether some of the refugees (if that’s what they truly are) “bring Middle Eastern jihadism with them” or “bring Somali chaos with them”.

I have sometimes thought the time may come when Christians in Europe and elsewhere may flee their homelands if Islamic jihadism becomes too much to bear where they were born. If so, it would be nice if there were a few “refuges” left, such as the U.S.

Poland seems to be holding its moral ground some. Not ideal maybe but it’s a possibility if the US gets much worse.

In answer to your other question, how would you feel if you were denied access to a better, safer country and the basic necessities it provides because of your faith or ethnicity? Its a little different when you are the immigrant isn’t it?

 

[Minion_w_a_drum]

Most definitely. Since the people in these places are most in need, we fail in our Christian duty if we refuse to help them. Think about it: what if a terrorist cell rose up in the USA. Do you think other countries would be justified in refusing asylum to your family on the basis that you were American? How would you feel if your sons or brothers could not escape conscription into a terrorist army or torture and execution for refusing? How would you feel if your sisters or daughters were forced to be sex slaves for violent men who see them as less than animals?

In addition, since america armed ISIS and largely contributed to this situation, you have more of a responsibility than most countries to help eth people who’s lives have been destroyed as a result.

One of the beautiful things about the great US of A is we (to this point in time at least) have the wonderful 2nd Amendment. It is among other things a great deterrent to terror cells popping up in this country. And when there is a terror attack in this country, the vast majority (if not all?) are based around gun free zones…(Kind of makes it obvious how to cut down on the few terror attacks we have.)

Trust me, staring the wrong way down a gun barrel puts the fear of mohammed into most, I would imagine.

 

[graciew]

Trust me, staring the wrong way down a gun barrel puts the fear of mohammed into most, I would imagine.

You bet…
Isn t thinking of ways to integraration a better option?
And I do not mean hordes. And not just US.

 

[graciew]

Here is a bit of theory. Not perfect perhaps but interesting to look into. There must be more.
And perhaps applied not only to refugees. There may be other needs as well.

What is Community Integration?

Community Integration is the opportunity to live in the community and be valued for one’s uniqueness
and abilities, like everyone else. (Salzer, 2006) *.
Community integration encompasses:

• Housing
• Employment
• Education
• Health Status
• Leisure/Recreation
• Spirituality/Religion
• Citizenship and Civic Engagement
• Valued Social Roles (e.g., marriage,
parenting)
• Peer Support
• Self-Determination
Community integration (or, the opportunity to live like everyone else)

How can I promote Community Integration?

• Identify barriers to community integration and target obstacles that prevent people from being
full members of their communities
• Provide supports which bring about meaningful changes in the lives of people with ( x difficulty)
(i.e. – Supported Education, Supported Employment, Self-Help Groups, Parenting
Classes, etc.)
• Expand the range of opportunities for people who have (x difficulty) to participate in their
communities as active, equal members

 

[Minion_w_a_drum]

You bet…
Isn t thinking of ways to integraration a better option?
And I do not mean hordes. And not just US.

I have no problem with integration of people who come to this country through the legal process that we have. My grandparents did that very thing. What I do have a problem with is when terror cells pop up. I have absolutely no desire to shoot someone who comes to this country and becomes a citizen. But what I do have is the right, duty, and obligation to protect myself, my family, and all innocent bystanders in the event of a terror attack or other threatening situation.

God Bless America.

 

[graciew]

I have no problem with integration of people who come to this country through the legal process that we have. My grandparents did that very thing. What I do have a problem with is when terror cells pop up. I have absolutely no desire to shoot someone who comes to this country and becomes a citizen. But what I do have is the right, duty, and obligation to protect myself, my family, and all innocent bystanders in the event of a terror attack or other threatening situation.

God Bless America.

Yes,Minion. I am trying to make it simple and reasonable at our level.
I wrote you bet cause guns scare me though I can shoot well( and hope not to have to).Circumstances when I am alone and isolated require that I better have more protection.
Also what triggered it is that here I visited the Museum if Immigrants and they gave them lodging and food until they found a job. Maybe it is not exactly this the best, but it triggered a brainstorming in me. Just that,kind of open and more down to earth or what we can do more at hand.
And to be very frank,in my mind ,I was thinking of places where persons live in very bad conditions and not really integrated.
With a positive frame of mind.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

You bet…
Isn t thinking of ways to integraration a better option?
And I do not mean hordes. And not just US.

Attempts of Integration have pretty much failed in Europe. Is it perhaps because the migrants don’t want to assimilate?

 

[graciew]

Attempts of Integration have pretty much failed in Europe. Is it perhaps because the migrants don’t want to assimilate?

I see self determination on the list and it sounds good.
My mother for example,translated books into Braille for the blind,this was her way to help.It was also tiny hand to integrate persons who could not have studied otherwise
I see here communities who are slowly integrating Syrians,the plus: they speak the language and slowly it seems to be working.
This little sort of steps.
What do you think?

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I honestly don’t know. My experience of living in the UK for ten years has shown me that non westerners don’t really want to integrate. I have met many people from different countries and the integration seemed to be quite superficial. I think that multiculturalism is a weird fantasy.

 

[Minion_w_a_drum]

I honestly don’t know. My experience of living in the UK for ten years has shown me that non westerners don’t really want to integrate. I have met many people from different countries and the integration seemed to be quite superficial. I think that multiculturalism is a weird fantasy.

After 51 years of life on this earth and in this country, I am firmly convinced that if someone, anyone, comes into this country and makes an honest to goodness attempt to follow the rules and assimilate to this country, our culture and values, there would be very few Americans who would object to their presence and would welcome and help them in any way possible. This is what Americans do.
What most Americans do not like is when someone comes here and not only refuses to adapt or assimilate but even tries to transform this country into something similar to the country that they just left.

 

[Evelyn40]

Papa Francis is absolutely right. The standard for entering Western countries should be pretty simple - all are welcome, regardless of race and religion. So I don’t know what people mean by integration. Exactly what do you expect them to integrate to? After all there is already a broad range of values, to the point where you can even find Whites more Easternized than the typical Muslim refugee.

Thankfully we live in a global society now, the time for little closed communities is behind us, so I imagine it won’t be long before the whole world formulates some kind of secular universal set of values we can all get behind.

 

[ShrodingersCat]

One of the beautiful things about the great US of A is we (to this point in time at least) have the wonderful 2nd Amendment. It is among other things a great deterrent to terror cells popping up in this country. And when there is a terror attack in this country, the vast majority (if not all?) are based around gun free zones…(Kind of makes it obvious how to cut down on the few terror attacks we have.)

Trust me, staring the wrong way down a gun barrel puts the fear of mohammed into most, I would imagine.

That is not the point at all.

I don’t care how likely / unlikely it is for it to happen in America. The point is, if it happened, how would you feel? And then apply that to the refugees; 99%+ of them are exactly the same as you.

 

[Minion_w_a_drum]

That is not the point at all.

I don’t care how likely / unlikely it is for it to happen in America. The point is, if it happened, how would you feel? And then apply that to the refugees; 99%+ of them are exactly the same as you.

How would I feel if what happened? If I got run out of my country? IF someone tried to make me flee from this country I simply would not go. I might end up dead. Maybe the persons trying to make me flee my country would end up dead. The point of my above post is we as Americans have the wonderful 2nd Amendment (at least for now) to protect us from becoming refugees. The poor people in other parts of the world simply do not have that freedom. And thus you see them herded around like animals. It is all very very sad.
And so I say no, 99% of them are not exactly the same as me. Americans enjoy many freedoms and liberties that other nationalities simply do not have. That makes us vastly different. Only by the sheer Grace of God have I been fortunate to be born in the US of A. And with that birth comes those many freedoms and liberties. Among these is my right (and thus duty and obligation) to protect myself under the 2nd Amendment.

And that is exactly what I intend to do, if the need arises. And I believe God wouldn’t want me to do it any other way.

 

[Ridgerunner]

In answer to your other question, how would you feel if you were denied access to a better, safer country and the basic necessities it provides because of your faith or ethnicity? Its a little different when you are the immigrant isn’t it?

Lichtenstein has the highest per capita income on earth, and is a safer place than the U.S. No, I don’t think I should expect to be able to move to Lichtenstein and be afforded the greater safety and wealth they have there.

There are other nations that might not be wealthier but are considerably safer, like Switzerland and Ireland, and no, I don’t think I should feel I have a right to move there.

And I do not qualify for citizenship in two of the three countries with which I “share ethnicity”; specifically, Ireland and Italy. I would qualify for citizenship in the third; France, (Alsace) but not because of ethnicity. I would qualify for citizenship in France solely because I was born in the Louisiana Territory. Makes no sense, but it’s true.

But to my knowledge, no other country allows people free entry and legitimacy simply because they feel threatened in their home countries or say they do. Half or more of the population of the earth could rightly claim that.

 

[josh987654321]

One of the beautiful things about the great US of A is we (to this point in time at least) have the wonderful 2nd Amendment. It is among other things a great deterrent to terror cells popping up in this country. And when there is a terror attack in this country, the vast majority (if not all?) are based around gun free zones…(Kind of makes it obvious how to cut down on the few terror attacks we have.)

Trust me, staring the wrong way down a gun barrel puts the fear of mohammed into most, I would imagine.

I disagree here because I believe one is dealing with ‘suicide bombers’.

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[josh987654321]

I have no problem with integration of people who come to this country through the legal process that we have. My grandparents did that very thing. What I do have a problem with is when terror cells pop up. I have absolutely no desire to shoot someone who comes to this country and becomes a citizen. But what I do have is the right, duty, and obligation to protect myself, my family, and all innocent bystanders in the event of a terror attack or other threatening situation.

God Bless America.

 

[graciew]

Lichtenstein has the highest per capita income on earth, and is a safer place than the U.S. No, I don’t think I should expect to be able to move to Lichtenstein and be afforded the greater safety and wealth they have there.

There are other nations that might not be wealthier but are considerably safer, like Switzerland and Ireland, and no, I don’t think I should feel I have a right to move there.

And I do not qualify for citizenship in two of the three countries with which I “share ethnicity”; specifically, Ireland and Italy. I would qualify for citizenship in the third; France, (Alsace) but not because of ethnicity. I would qualify for citizenship in France solely because I was born in the Louisiana Territory. Makes no sense, but it’s true.

But to my knowledge, no other country allows people free entry and legitimacy simply because they feel threatened in their home countries or say they do. Half or more of the population of the earth could rightly claim that.

I do not nderstand you. Convert seems to be talking about need. And war zones.
The ones I read are having more difficulties are the ones who have lost everything, documents included.

Is this an emergency or not? Just so that we can agree of what are talking about.

 

[josh987654321]

I think that multiculturalism is a weird fantasy.

I agree, I believe it only works when we all share the same or similar moral ethos, which in the west is our Judeo Christian culture/ethos, the further out society drifts away from that, the more divided and weaker it becomes I believe.

Multiculturism I believe works, but not on it’s own, there is nothing unitive or strong about division, it’s the unity in our Judeo Christian culture/ethos, which I believe is the corner stone to our society.

It’s been under tremendous attack in these past years I believe too.

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[josh987654321]

Papa Francis is absolutely right. The standard for entering Western countries should be pretty simple - all are welcome, regardless of race and religion. So I don’t know what people mean by integration. Exactly what do you expect them to integrate to? After all there is already a broad range of values, to the point where you can even find Whites more Easternized than the typical Muslim refugee.

Thankfully we live in a global society now, the time for little closed communities is behind us, so I imagine it won’t be long before the whole world formulates some kind of secular universal set of values we can all get behind.

Why do you lock your house, or you car? Are not all welcome? or do you think there are thief’s out there, who given the opportunity will steal your car? or ransack your house?

I think you should practice your philosophy writ small scale first, before you try it on the large scale.

Also, your secular universal set of values we can all get behind doesn’t exist, it never will and if it ever does exist, it will only come about with tyranny.

I hope this has helped

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[graciew]

I disagree here because I believe one is dealing with ‘suicide bombers’.

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

Josh, you all have among the best Homeland Security one can have. Shall I tell you that a year ago they examined evry single corner if my suitcases,and each time I enter I am very carefully scrutinized.?
And more. There are interviews in the Consulates,where they are trained to pick what they need to know?
What else do you all want? I do not get you…that is the US. …
Giosh! I can understand that one is afraid of course but that all of us are suicide bombers because we cross a frontier ,no…numbers can tell you that.
It is like the fear of flying. Yes,it is real fear. But think of it: how many flights a day reach destination worldwide? Take your time…we have to deal with our fears and that is hard…I get that…