H
Hoosier-Daddy
Guest
If it does I would not donate…
- Status
G
gracepoole
Guest
Please don’t. Catholics can and should find far better sources.
F
FOG
Guest
A personal choice to be sure, but to your earlier post “I had no idea the Church has this kind of money”…it does, for these very efforts, through donations of those who want to donate to Peter’s Pence, so the Church does have “this kind of money”, thanks to benefactors who donate to this charitable collection to address the marginalized that the Pope sees fit to help.
So, the good news is, its not your money being spent.
Last edited:
blackforest
Well-known member
No, I’d really rather the aid go directly to the people who need it instead of corrupt governments.
How is the Catholic Church following Christ’s commandment to assist the needy even controversial?
How is the Catholic Church following Christ’s commandment to assist the needy even controversial?
1
13pollitos
Guest
I agree with you here. The money should not go to the governments. They are so corrupt that it would only make the problems worse.
I do not think $500,000 is nearly enough to help the amount of people it is intended to help. I do think it would be better spent on programs that would protect people from making the trip north in the way it is being done.
Mexico is not the place they need to be during the wait for asylum. Mexico is as dangerous if not more so than many of the places people are fleeing. Tijuana is top of the list for danger, and the groups that have broken off to go Veracruz to Tamaulipas are not better off. The violence in Veracruz is rising by the day and mass graves full of women and children are being found all over. One was uncovered just outside of my in-laws town. To ask people fleeing bad neighborhoods to go through a country that the violence isn’t confined to cities (rural Mexico is in many ways more dangerous than urban areas), a country that absolutely hates central and South Americans and treats them horribly, all for the promise of making it to a place they have false ideas about is misguided. Parents and other family members taking one or two kids with them for easier passage and leaving the rest of their family behind to deal with life is wrong. We need to help people find the way to preserve their family and travel safely if it comes to that.
I do not think $500,000 is nearly enough to help the amount of people it is intended to help. I do think it would be better spent on programs that would protect people from making the trip north in the way it is being done.
Mexico is not the place they need to be during the wait for asylum. Mexico is as dangerous if not more so than many of the places people are fleeing. Tijuana is top of the list for danger, and the groups that have broken off to go Veracruz to Tamaulipas are not better off. The violence in Veracruz is rising by the day and mass graves full of women and children are being found all over. One was uncovered just outside of my in-laws town. To ask people fleeing bad neighborhoods to go through a country that the violence isn’t confined to cities (rural Mexico is in many ways more dangerous than urban areas), a country that absolutely hates central and South Americans and treats them horribly, all for the promise of making it to a place they have false ideas about is misguided. Parents and other family members taking one or two kids with them for easier passage and leaving the rest of their family behind to deal with life is wrong. We need to help people find the way to preserve their family and travel safely if it comes to that.
B
billsherman
Guest
Christians have a tendency to forget that Jesus was a social radical. All that “turn the other cheek,” and “the first shall be last,” and “No man can serve God and money” stuff is pushed aside when it becomes too difficult. On my more cynical days I think Chesterton might have been right when he wrote: "The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult and left untried.”
I might only add that you can substitute: “It conflicts with my political beliefs, so it will be left untried.”
1
13pollitos
Guest
The struggles of these people should not be used for political talking points and instead should be addressed. No one is interested in addressing the reasons people are leaving their homes and families to travel through a country that hates them. People are too busy taking sides on whether they should stay there or be allowed in here. It is good to shelter, clothe and feed them. It is good to be welcoming and respectful. It is wrong to not attempt to discourage the perilous journey by correcting misguided beliefs and also by making crossing easier when children are with them. As a nation we need to work with these migrants by helping them find safer passage and I think the pope could help make that happen. The situation as it is needs to end.
M
maryjk
Guest
Perhaps he could have donated to the parishes from where they came. Rather then where they are going.
Ideally, where they live should be improved. Then no one would want to make the journey.
Ideally, where they live should be improved. Then no one would want to make the journey.
1
13pollitos
Guest
This may be a good place to start. I don’t have any knowledge what the status of the church is in El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua, etc. St. Oscar Romero’s martyrdom makes me wonder if it would be possible for the church to have any impact or if the donation of money would make it a bigger target. I don’t really see any easy solution. It’s a really big mess.
I do find it curious that the pope is trusting Mexican Diocese with large donations. He was very critical of Mexican priests and bishops in the past and publicly rebuked them. He has said he hopes Argentina avoids “mexicanization” when speaking of drugs and human trafficking. The Vatican even issued an apology to Mexico for that comment. Why is he giving this donation to the Mexican Church?
Francis issues blunt warnings, broad vision in manifesto to Mexican bishops
Pope Francis gave Mexico's prelates a blunt outline of their roles and obligations as bishops, while condemning inaction on a drug trade that he said "devours like a spreading cancer."
www.ncronline.org
https://www.premierchristianity.com/News/World/Vatican-seeks-pardon-over-Pope-s-Mexico-comments
1
13pollitos
Guest
I agree with this but how can that happen? What do we do for the people in the meantime?
P
ProVobis
Guest
Either way there are administrative costs in getting the half million there. Can’t be that much to the people it’s intended for.
blackforest
Well-known member
Unfortunately, their parishes can’t stop the violence and gang activity. I’m all for addressing root causes, but I think these bloodthirsty aggressors in Central America are beyond any philanthropic help.
You’re Catholic and wouldn’t donate to the Vatican?
M
MikeInVA
Guest
Give to Ceasar what is Ceasar’s. I pray for the Pope every day, but I will not donate money to facilitate his political programs.
blackforest
Well-known member
He’s feeding the hungry, giving drink to the thirsty. This isn’t political, people. It’s Scripture. Again, how is obeying a basic tenet of our faith so controversial?
H
Hoosier-Daddy
Guest
Yes. I would not donate to a general fund in the Church. As someone who travels often to the Vatican I am sure I contribute in some way. But I cannot morally donate to my parish or diocese. I do choose to donate to apostolates and programs and I love serving with my time and talent in my parish. The finances of the Vatican bank has been an issue in recent decades but for me it is the abuse situations that preclude me from donatingmaryjk:
Unfortunately, their parishes can’t stop the violence and gang activity. I’m all for addressing root causes, but I think these bloodthirsty aggressors in Central America are beyond any philanthropic help.
You’re Catholic and wouldn’t donate to the Vatican?
1
13pollitos
Guest
This is a good thing for me to ponder. $500,000 is not nearly enough to cover all the people involved. It is very difficult to see this as not political though with with Pope Francis’s past and recent statements. I honestly think Pope Francis has the ability to make a real difference and instead is giving just enough to make a statement.
I want to see this with the glowing eyes you and others do. I really do. I am praying for understanding. But there are real people living through a real hell and this does not seem to be the answer for real help.
We all know about how St. Oscar Romero was killed and why. Do people realize that Mexico has been listed as the most dangerous place on the planet for Catholic priests for several years now? Just as I’m cautious about making the Church a bigger target in other countries if money was given to parishes there, I am worried about the churches in Mexico too. I do want to believe the pope has changed his views on Mexico and the Mexican church and that this is a sign of his change of heart. I don’t know. It’s hard not seeing this as a political move.
I want to see this with the glowing eyes you and others do. I really do. I am praying for understanding. But there are real people living through a real hell and this does not seem to be the answer for real help.
We all know about how St. Oscar Romero was killed and why. Do people realize that Mexico has been listed as the most dangerous place on the planet for Catholic priests for several years now? Just as I’m cautious about making the Church a bigger target in other countries if money was given to parishes there, I am worried about the churches in Mexico too. I do want to believe the pope has changed his views on Mexico and the Mexican church and that this is a sign of his change of heart. I don’t know. It’s hard not seeing this as a political move.
H
HumbleIOughtToBe
Guest
My apologies, here is something stronger, focus on 76 and 77. Populorum Progressio (March 26, 1967) | Paul VI For reference I am Roman Catholic.
Also, I now understand the concern you have and see my error here. The Priest I cited was of the Acton Institute. I was not familiar with the concern towards this group, or its true nature.
The Rise of the Catholic Right: How right-wing billionaires are attempting a hostile takeover of the U.S. Catholic Church Catholic News
Also, I now understand the concern you have and see my error here. The Priest I cited was of the Acton Institute. I was not familiar with the concern towards this group, or its true nature.
Last edited:
1
13pollitos
Guest
Thanks for posting this.
Development, the New Name for Peace
- Extreme disparity between nations in economic, social and educational levels provokes jealousy and discord, often putting peace in jeopardy. As We told the Council Fathers on Our return from the United Nations: “We have to devote our attention to the situation of those nations still striving to advance. What We mean, to put it in clearer words, is that our charity toward the poor, of whom there are countless numbers in the world, has to become more solicitous, more effective, more generous.” (64)
- Nations are the architects of their own development, and they must bear the burden of this work; but they cannot accomplish it if they live in isolation from others. Regional mutual aid agreements among the poorer nations, broader based programs of support for these nations, major alliances between nations to coordinate these activities—these are the road signs that point the way to national development and world peace.
Last edited:
blackforest
Well-known member
You expressed being tired of hearing from me in another thread, but you’ve replied to enough of my posts that perhaps you’re ready again?
Are you saying that the Vatican should have given more?
I don’t know the Pence fund’s budget. I also don’t know what other global urgencies of human need are necessitating its funds. But even if our Pope could have allocated more, it’s dangerously cynical to leap to the conclusion that meager donation = throwing money at a problem to make a “political statement.”
Volunteers stationed at the camps handing out water bottles and blankets aren’t giving “nearly enough.” The woman in the Gospels who put a single coin in the coffer didn’t give “nearly enough,” either.
Last edited:
1
13pollitos
Guest
That is not what I was saying. I do agree it came across that way.
It isn’t the amount exactly. I do think that small efforts make an impact. If we all did small things the world would be perfect (not quite but you know what I mean i hope). It’s the entire situation that makes it appear fishy to me. I have been praying over this. I want a change of heart.
$500,000 is way more than I could imagine possessing, and it is something that definitely can be life changing for people. I’m just not convinced that this was given for the sole purpose of living out the gospel. Knowing how the pope has spoken of and to Mexico and about migrants, and then handing this amount over to Mexico for migrants causes alarm in my heart. Knowing the danger this amount of cash has the potential to cause for priests already in grave danger scares me for them. The fact that, even though it is a large donation, will not truthfully go very far in terms of providing shelter and food makes it seem like a statement rather than humanitarian effort.
I don’t know what the best course of action is. I just know that we need to find a better way. Families deserve to be together. Right now there are thousands of parents at the border with one or a few of their kids while the rest of their kids are in their home country. Sometimes the kids are with the other parent. Sometimes with other family members. It is very hard to accept that encouraging that sort of migration (and it is encouraged with rumors, social media posts by coyotes, radio ads, church officials, teachers…) is in anyone’s best interests. I realize the pope’s donation is going to people once they are already at the border. He isn’t paying them to leave their homes. His remarks are unfortunately supportive of this type of migration though. Why can’t he encourage parents not to abandon their children in a place so bad they decide to leave, and spouses not to abandon their spouses in the same situation? Why doesn’t he use his influence to work towards finding a solution that keeps families together and helps pave a path to SAFE passage for them all? Why doesn’t he voice concern for the countries that the migrants are passing through and the rights that they have to enforce their laws? It isn’t just the US and Mexico that have had trouble dealing with the amounts of people traveling to and through their nations. Costa Rica and Panama are two other places struggling with this.
It isn’t the amount exactly. I do think that small efforts make an impact. If we all did small things the world would be perfect (not quite but you know what I mean i hope). It’s the entire situation that makes it appear fishy to me. I have been praying over this. I want a change of heart.
$500,000 is way more than I could imagine possessing, and it is something that definitely can be life changing for people. I’m just not convinced that this was given for the sole purpose of living out the gospel. Knowing how the pope has spoken of and to Mexico and about migrants, and then handing this amount over to Mexico for migrants causes alarm in my heart. Knowing the danger this amount of cash has the potential to cause for priests already in grave danger scares me for them. The fact that, even though it is a large donation, will not truthfully go very far in terms of providing shelter and food makes it seem like a statement rather than humanitarian effort.
I don’t know what the best course of action is. I just know that we need to find a better way. Families deserve to be together. Right now there are thousands of parents at the border with one or a few of their kids while the rest of their kids are in their home country. Sometimes the kids are with the other parent. Sometimes with other family members. It is very hard to accept that encouraging that sort of migration (and it is encouraged with rumors, social media posts by coyotes, radio ads, church officials, teachers…) is in anyone’s best interests. I realize the pope’s donation is going to people once they are already at the border. He isn’t paying them to leave their homes. His remarks are unfortunately supportive of this type of migration though. Why can’t he encourage parents not to abandon their children in a place so bad they decide to leave, and spouses not to abandon their spouses in the same situation? Why doesn’t he use his influence to work towards finding a solution that keeps families together and helps pave a path to SAFE passage for them all? Why doesn’t he voice concern for the countries that the migrants are passing through and the rights that they have to enforce their laws? It isn’t just the US and Mexico that have had trouble dealing with the amounts of people traveling to and through their nations. Costa Rica and Panama are two other places struggling with this.
- Status