Pope Francis drives a wedge between Catholic Church, GOP

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estesbob said:
The Democrat Party has enthusiastically implemented their support of Homosexual Marriage and Abortion. What have the republicans implemented from their platform that are contrary to Church teaching.?
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I cannot defend the democrats, but so nothing I say can justify voting for a democrat. However, when a party puts something in their platform that the party has no intention whatsover of even attempting, that is blatant dishonesty. Are you saying the Church is fine with blatant dishonesty?
 
The balanced budget issue is of importance, however, the other stances, especially when on moral grounds seems to be of much more serious nature. I’d say an aim is a balanced budget.

Again though, our choice comes down to making a decision based on an informed conscience.
 
stinkcat_14 said:
One of the big lies that the republican party has perpetuated is that it is the party of fiscal responsibility. One of the reasons that I rarely vote for republicans is that they are a big government party. For example, can any true conservative support socialist programs like SS and Medicare? I cannot see how.
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That’s where the label of conservative fails. It seems like those advocating the status quo would be more representative of the general population.
 
estesbob said:
The Democrat Party has enthusiastically implemented their support of Homosexual Marriage and Abortion. What have the republicans implemented from their platform that are contrary to Church teaching.?
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You seem to be missing my point. You keep defaulting to the platform as an indication that the Republicans support no intrinsic evils and I reject the assertion that the platform is an accurate indication of how the Republicans will govern when in power using the idea of them not following their platform with regards to a balanced budget.

Furthermore, the fact that Republicans refuse to denounce the Iraq War and torture (and Senator McCain’s seeming willingness to get us involved in foreign wars at the drop of a hat since President Obama has been elected) gives a strong indication that they will continue these policies if giving the opportunity.
 
I have voted Democrat many more times in my life than I have voted Republican. But in the current climate, with secular individualism becoming increasingly strident, even hostile to Christian values and the common good (contraception/abortion/legalized euthanasia/gay marriage/adoption/transgender rights/legalized marijuana/educations trends such as common core which reject traditional cultural values; diminished religious liberties), Catholics cannot brush off these concerns. You cannot deny or rationalize what the Democratic Party supports and the negative effects of this on society and our culture (to do so is the stuff of libertarianism and individualism); you have to seriously apply your conscience to this issue at this time.
 
ProVobis said:
I assume you’re grouping religious orders as apostolic? If so, look at the Franciscans.
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I was actually looking at the apostles who left family gave away all their possessions and followed Jesus. They shared everything up to an including the Last Supper.
 
JimmyG88 said:
From whom exactly?
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Just about everybody to the left of Jeb Bush. My stars! Who could possibly be unaware of the envy promotion this administration has engaged in? We have seen lots of it on CAF even. “The rich”, “the rich”, “the rich”. (which really means the upper middle class) How many times have we heard Obama talk about how they’re not paying “their fair share”? How many other Dems have said it?
 
weller2 said:
It appears that conservative Catholics are not really orthodox, rather, they are guilty of the same “cafeteria Catholicism” they accuse liberals of.
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This is a slanderous and false accusation.

Conservative Catholics are faithful Catholics, who accept all the teachings of the Church. There is nothing in the GOP party platform that contradicts Church teaching. Liberals who are Catholic DO have to reconcile their support for a Party which has several platform positions which are in DIRECT contradiction to Church teaching.

Please retract your false accusation.
 
FollowChrist34 said:
I have voted Democrat many more times in my life than I have voted Republican. But in the current climate, with secular individualism becoming increasingly strident, even hostile to Christian values and the common good (contraception/abortion/legalized euthanasia/gay marriage/adoption/transgender rights/legalized marijuana/educations trends such as common core which reject traditional cultural values; diminished religious liberties), Catholics cannot brush off these concerns. You cannot deny or rationalize what the Democratic Party supports and the negative effects of this on society and our culture (to do so is the stuff of libertarianism and individualism); you have to seriously apply your conscience to this issue at this time.
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Precisely. And the American voters seemed to have gotten that message in the recent election.
 
JimmyG88 said:
I have met lots of American people who share your views. Isnt the apostolic life socialist? Everything in common, no money or property. Stark compared to what I’m talking about
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Some religious orders could broadly be described as “communistic” in that everything is held in common and nobody owns anything individually. But then, not everybody is called to be a monk or a nun either.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Just about everybody to the left of Jeb Bush. My stars! Who could possibly be unaware of the envy promotion this administration has engaged in? We have seen lots of it on CAF even. “The rich”, “the rich”, “the rich”. (which really means the upper middle class) How many times have we heard Obama talk about how they’re not paying “their fair share”? How many other Dems have said it?
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How would you distinguish between the upper middle class and the upper class? Would you consider the top 20% of income earners upper class?
 
JimmyG88 said:
I was actually looking at the apostles who left family gave away all their possessions and followed Jesus. They shared everything up to an including the Last Supper.
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I see. But did they have a government which subsidized their undertaking?
 
FollowChrist34 said:
  1. Support for Iraq war (Benedict opposed) (I supported halfheartedly).
  2. Opposition to gun control efforts. Support for and/or participation in proliferation of weapons in the US.
  3. Opposition to immigration (I oppose immigration/amnesty.)
  4. Opposition to efforts to combat climate change or in a larger sense, environmental protection. The environment is actually in better shape in the US now than it has been for over 50 years; this is due to environmentalists, certainly NOT to the Republican party who have fought much of the legislation and regulation that brought this about - though Republicans and their children enjoy and benefit from it as much as anyone else.
  5. Laissez-faire capitalism (think “Mammon” “Golden Calf” Jesus telling the rich man to sell everything he owns if he wishes to enter the kingdom of God; Rich man walks away sad. Camel/eye of the needle; Two coats, give away one) Valuing money and the things of this world more than God. Idolatry. The Bible mentions the poor 2000 times (not my count); can’t list them all here. No laissez-faire capitalistic Pope has ever lived (well, maybe a few back in the bad days), certainly not in the last century. I agree they oppose socialism and communism (as do I) but also oppose materialism and consumerism of the West as “spiritual poverty” which contributes to global environmental and human exploitation, not to mention hedonism and secularism. I agree that individual charity is incredibly important here; I don’t think it precludes the need for regulated capitalism and support for those regulations. Again, the Popes and the CCC (social teaching) are with me here.
  6. Support for torture.
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  1. Pope Benedict himself said a Catholic could hold a different opinion on the Iraq War and still be a faithful Catholic. So that doesn’t qualify.
  2. Nothing about gun ownership is contrary to Catholic teaching. Are you under the impression that the person political opinions of some bishops are Church teaching?
  3. Same as #2. You can have a different opinion on this topic from the bishops.
  4. Climate change is not part of Church teaching. Again, you are conflating personal opinions of some bishops with Church teaching.
  5. Nothing about laissez-faire capitalism is contrary to Church teaching. Socialism is contrary to Church teaching.
  6. No one supports torture. This is a strawman argument created by the left.
You seem to be under the erroneous belief that personal opinions of bishops are Church teaching. They aren’t.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Just about everybody to the left of Jeb Bush. My stars! Who could possibly be unaware of the envy promotion this administration has engaged in? We have seen lots of it on CAF even. “The rich”, “the rich”, “the rich”. (which really means the upper middle class) How many times have we heard Obama talk about how they’re not paying “their fair share”? How many other Dems have said it?
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Contrary to what you appear to believe only a small percentage of Roman Catholics live in the USA. It really shows a misguided sense of cultural superiority to suggest that every argument around politics should start and end in the USA. There are global perspectives that you probably need to expose yourself too before you become so dismissive and ethnocentric
 
zz912 said:
  1. Pope Benedict himself said a Catholic could hold a different opinion on the Iraq War and still be a faithful Catholic. So that doesn’t qualify.
  2. Nothing about gun ownership is contrary to Catholic teaching. Are you under the impression that the person political opinions of some bishops are Church teaching?
  3. Same as #2. You can have a different opinion on this topic from the bishops.
  4. Climate change is not part of Church teaching. Again, you are conflating personal opinions of some bishops with Church teaching.
  5. Nothing about laissez-faire capitalism is contrary to Church teaching. Socialism is contrary to Church teaching.
  6. No one supports torture. This is a strawman argument created by the left.
You seem to be under the erroneous belief that personal opinions of bishops are Church teaching. They aren’t.
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But I think under this Pope the zeitgeist has changed. Believe it or not lots of people outside the U.S. think your gun laws are quite disturbing
 
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