Pope Francis drives a wedge between Catholic Church, GOP

[kenmiller]

But I think a lot of conservatives do wish a pope would declare that all Americans must vote Republican. They would love to once and for all tie our vote to our eternal salvation. What a marvelous campaign strategy that would be!

Well I do have a problem with abortion and gay marriage - how bout you ?

 

[Path_Finder]

Pope Francis represents his background a lot, Argentina and Latin America even if one can point to the fact, he has spent much of his life in Italy. Some time, we may have an African or Asian Pope and that Pope will reflect that background as well.

I do think the Pontiff’s words are often covered out of proportion, every little thing he says seems to be magnified.

 

[Sy_Noe]

I don’t know. I don’t believe the concept coming from traditional Catholics that everything that the pope says is slanted, mistranslated, misreported, or that he talks in a more cryptic and riddling way that his words can be reanalyzed to mean anything. On the other hand I don’t think he’ll make any major changes. The big question for me is whether his papacy is the new ground, small steps, and a shift in the direction for big change in the future or whether its just Pope Francis’s personal style and the next Pope will be a conservative again.

My guess is the next one will be conservative again as from my perspective when the College of Cardinals have cast their ballots most have been.

 

[ProVobis]

I don’t know if that’s true but it would only be because the media doesn’t report his condemning in no uncertain terms abortion and homosexual marriage . There is really nothing this Pope has said that differs in any way from what any of the Popes have said in my lifetime . As with all Popes he chooses to focus his ministry in different areas . I love this Pope I think he has been and will continue to be a great gift to our church

If you followed my postings, I used to give the Democrats some benefit of the doubt, not because I agreed with their position but because I hoped they would change. I became convinced that through media like MSNBC and their enthusiastic embrace of this Pope, that that wasn’t going to happen in my lifetime.

 

[marymary1975]

Sr. Campbell’s comment is the final quote included but what about the quotes from Rubio and Diaz-Balart?

First of all I would be extremely careful of calling Rubio “a practicing catholic”. The fact that someone is particularly anti abortion does not mean they ate pro life or even a practicing catholic so sincerely I don’t like that Rubio is identified as a practicing catholic. Second Rubio and Diaz are Cubans from Miami which is an entirely separate bread. I don’t think thatit is that the Pope is causing a wedge, is that the Pope touched an issue that is particularly significant for the very pparticular group of the Cubans in Miami. They have very particular interests and they are very much their way or the highway. If you touch one of their interest you fall in disgrace and I think that is what happened here. I am not a Republican but, I can tell you that for exampleany people tend to tend that because Rubio is Hispanics most Hispanics agree with him, when the reality of that most Hispanics don’t like the Cubans in Miami and most Hispanics don’t like Ribio one bit so it is pretty erroneous to think that because Rubii says something most Hispanics will agree with him. I wonder if there is some of that in this situation. The fact that Rubio and Diaz are saying this maybe it doesn’t mean that the American Catholic Republicans agree with him.

 

[Sy_Noe]

God sent them both to us as different times for different reasons. We always seem to get the popes we need at the time.

Do you think at this time, the faithful needed this Pope to convey to them an example of a gentler, humble, compassionate tone? And to speak for example more on economic disparity throughout the world, the environment and so forth?

 

[Mulligan2]

And that is not a bad thing. Pope Francis is who he is and we are blessed to have him.

Yes. We ARE blessed to have him. Pope Francis is obviously ruffling some feathers, both inside and outside the Vatican. But I believe that is a good thing. That’s what Jesus often did during his earthly life. He often made people uncomfortable, but it was always in the context of a teachable moment.

 

[stinkcat_14]

Do you think at this time, the faithful needed this Pope to convey to them an example of a gentler, compassionate tone?

If you read his remarks on the curia, I wouldn’t call them particularly gentle. On the other hand, on the substance of his remarks it is hard to argue with him. Some may consider him gentle and compassionate and others may not. But he is what he is, and we are here to learn from him whether he is gentle and compassionate or not.

 

[ProVobis]

God sent them both to us as different times for different reasons. We always seem to get the popes we need at the time.

And if that doesn’t work, we have what we call U.S. elections every two years.

 

[Darryl1958]

It is not so important whether the next pope is liberal, or conservative.

The weight of two thousand years of prior teaching on the faith and morals of the Catholic community ensures that every Bishop of Rome will be conservative on any issue which is essentially Catholic.

It is like the difference between abortion or marriage, and Global Warming. In the former, there is de fide eternal Catholic teaching, and in the latter, we have a liberal pope bringing up for discussion a topic that is near and dear to the hearts of many liberals

Abortion is de fide. MMGW is not.

But how to best manage the environment is a question that does not just involve science and politics, but morals as well.It is a perfectly valid topic for a pope to open up for discussion among Catholics therefore.

It matters not a wit where he himself places himself on the issue. His understanding of science and politics is no more de fide than anyone else’s. But as a pope, he is in a position of Catholic leadership in order to direct the Catholic conversation to topics that are near and dear to his heart, which as it turns out, tend to be the same topic that are near and dear to liberals hearts.

That is not driving a wedge, I don’t think. Republicans and conservatives are more than prepared and very happy to explain their own moral stances on these issues.

 

[BrassAnkles]

I don’t vote Republican because the pope tells me to. I vote Republican because Democrats are the Party of Death and supporting them would in at least most cases be morally unconscionable

AMEN!!!

 

[kenmiller]

Yes. We ARE blessed to have him. Pope Francis is obviously ruffling some feathers, both inside and outside the Vatican. But I believe that is a good thing. That’s what Jesus often did during his earthly life. He often made people uncomfortable, but it was always in the context of a teachable moment.

I rather doubt christ would get involved in a big government battle such as global warming -

 

[kenmiller]

My guess is the next one will be conservative again as from my perspective when the College of Cardinals have cast their ballots most have been.

I agree with that - many people shaking their heads

 

[Path_Finder]

First of all I would be extremely careful of calling Rubio “a practicing catholic”. The fact that someone is particularly anti abortion does not mean they ate pro life or even a practicing catholic so sincerely I don’t like that Rubio is identified as a practicing catholic. Second Rubio and Diaz are Cubans from Miami which is an entirely separate bread. I don’t think thatit is that the Pope is causing a wedge, is that the Pope touched an issue that is particularly significant for the very pparticular group of the Cubans in Miami. They have very particular interests and they are very much their way or the highway. If you touch one of their interest you fall in disgrace and I think that is what happened here. I am not a Republican but, I can tell you that for exampleany people tend to tend that because Rubio is Hispanics most Hispanics agree with him, when the reality of that most Hispanics don’t like the Cubans in Miami and most Hispanics don’t like Ribio one bit so it is pretty erroneous to think that because Rubii says something most Hispanics will agree with him. I wonder if there is some of that in this situation. The fact that Rubio and Diaz are saying this maybe it doesn’t mean that the American Catholic Republicans agree with him.

Did not Pope John Paul II later say or infer that he possibly did not understand the true situation of the struggle in El Salvador where Archbishop Romero was slain?? Could we not see something like that in Cuba as well?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%93scar_Romero

It seems I have heard this before. Here is a bit on the article about Pope John Paul II:

Liberation theology

In 1984 and 1986, through leader of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith Cardinal Ratzinger (later Pope Benedict XVI), John Paul II officially condemned aspects of liberation theology, which had many followers in South America. Visiting Europe, Óscar Romero unsuccessfully attempted to obtain a Vatican condemnation of El Salvador’s regime, for violations of human rights and its support of death squads. In his travel to Managua, Nicaragua, in 1983, John Paul II harshly condemned what he dubbed the “popular Church”[118] (i.e. “ecclesial base communities” supported by the CELAM), and the Nicaraguan clergy’s tendencies to support the leftist Sandinistas, reminding the clergy of their duties of obedience to the Holy See.[118] During that visit Ernesto Cardenal, a priest and minister in the Sandinista government, knelt to kiss his hand. John Paul withdrew it, wagged his finger in Cardenal’s face, and told him, “You must straighten out your position with the church.”[119]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_Paul_II

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For the record, I think Marco even briefly “looked” at Mormonism.

**
Marco Rubio, a Catholic, Remembers Little of His Time in the Mormon Church**

abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/04/marco-rubio-a-catholic-remembers-little-of-his-time-in-the-mormon-church/

Sen. Marco Rubio’s religious journey: Catholic to Mormon to Catholic to Baptist and Catholic
religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/23/sen-marco-rubios-religious-journey-catholic-to-mormon-to-catholic-to-baptist-and-catholic/

 

[stinkcat_14]

I agree with that - many people shaking their heads

I am sure many shook their heads when pope john was elected. And he ended up a saint. So just because a pope wasn’t what people thought doesn’t mean it is a bad thing.

 

[John_Savage]

God sent them both to us as different times for different reasons. We always seem to get the popes we need at the time.

This isn’t true and we should stop being fatalistic in every decision. We’ve had good popes and bad popes. Did the Renaissance need the Borges popes? The only thing guaranteed is that the Church doesn’t teach error.

The Republican party isn’t the Ayn Rand party. It’s a conservative party that encourages charity. Republicans give more money to charity than Democrats. There are more ways than government to help the poor and it’s fair to say that much government harms poor people in the long run, especially government that encourages immorality. The bottom line is that these things are debatable. What’s not debatable is abortion and dudes marrying each other.

 

[John_Savage]

What evidence is there that there’s more enthusiasm for this pope? Is mass attendance up? Donations? There’s more enthusiasm from people who hate the Church.

 

[stinkcat_14]

This isn’t true and we should stop being fatalistic in every decision. We’ve had good popes and bad popes. Did the Renaissance need the Borges popes? The only thing guaranteed is that the Church doesn’t teach error.

The Republican party isn’t the Ayn Rand party. It’s a conservative party that encourages charity. Republicans give more money to charity than Democrats. There are more ways than government to help the poor and it’s fair to say that much government harms poor people in the long run, especially government that encourages immorality. The bottom line is that these things are debatable. What’s not debatable is abortion and dudes marrying each other.

Actually, the republican party is in no way a conservative party. It is a big government, slightly less liberal than the democrats party. For example, the republican party supports social security and medicare, two big government welfare programs that no true conservative could ever support.

 

[kenmiller]

I am sure many shook their heads when pope john was elected. And he ended up a saint. So just because a pope wasn’t what people thought doesn’t mean it is a bad thing.

To be determined I guess - Entering Catholicism into the poltical arena with global warming crusade along likes of Al Gore is problematic

 

[Path_Finder]

Actually, the republican party is in no way a conservative party. It is a big government, slightly less liberal than the democrats party. For example, the republican party supports social security and medicare, two big government welfare programs that no true conservative could ever support.

Maybe a “passionate conservative” could.