Pope Francis' first moves hint at break with past

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Any thoughts on this? I was actually quite sad and disappointed…I felt it was rather untactile…

"Minutes after the election result was declared in the Sistine Chapel, a Vatican official called the Master of Ceremonies offered to the new Pope the traditional papal red cape trimmed with ermine that his predecessor Pope Benedict XVI gladly wore on ceremonial occasions.

“No thank you, Monsignore,” Pope Francis is reported to have replied. “You put it on instead. Carnival time is over!”

m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21813874
 
kurtmasur said:
Any thoughts on this? I was actually quite sad and disappointed…I felt it was rather untactile…

"Minutes after the election result was declared in the Sistine Chapel, a Vatican official called the Master of Ceremonies offered to the new Pope the traditional papal red cape trimmed with ermine that his predecessor Pope Benedict XVI gladly wore on ceremonial occasions.

“No thank you, Monsignore,” Pope Francis is reported to have replied. “You put it on instead. Carnival time is over!”

m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21813874
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“is to reported as having said”…

since there is no one taking responsibility by even saying “a vatican official” it’s a very questionable piece of journalism (ie tabloid)

And considering the humility that the Pope is showing, and kindness, it doesnt even sound like something of Ignation spirituality would say, dont you think?
 
If this true, big things are happening.

I don’t know if one can really be “disappointed” with comments by the Vicar of Christ. He is the Pope. We have a chance to learn from him- not criticize him.
 
The media was also reporting that Pope Francis sacked Cardinal Law. Turned out that was false.

Based on that record, I wouldn’t trust it. I feel like - either purposefully or not - that the media is trying to “rupture” Pope Benedict’s pontificate from Pope Francis’s, as if Benedict was the grumpy, out-of-touch, old German.
 
ringil said:
If this true, big things are happening.

I don’t know if one can really be “disappointed” with comments by the Vicar of Christ. He is the Pope. We have a chance to learn from him- not criticize him.
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The topic of discussion seems to fit what we know, and have seen since his Papacy began.
Another moment of truth occurred when Pope Francis broke the seals of the Papal Apartment in the Apostolic Palace to take possession of his new home. Vatican officials genuflected and bowed as Archbishop George Gaenswein, secretary of the now retired Pope Benedict but still master of the papal household, searched for the light switch while the Pope stood motionless for a moment, outlined in the dark, surveying the scene.
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“There’s room for 300 people here,” he’s reported to have remarked. “I don’t need all this space.”
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What has fascinated observers of the Vatican scene is that the new Pope has no close personal secretary or aide following him around comparable to George Gaenswein, the personal shadow of former Pope Benedict.
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Only hours after his election the new Pope slipped out of the Vatican in an unmarked car to pray at a Rome basilica where the founder of his order once prayed. And then he asked the driver to stop at the hotel for clergy in the centre of Rome where he had been staying before the conclave to pay his bill and pick up his bags.
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The following day he again left the Vatican, incognito, to visit a sick friend in hospital.
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The new pope is a frugal man, a friend of the poor, in the long tradition of another icon of the Catholic Church, whose name he has borrowed, St Francis of Assisi. As bishop he was used to travelling around Buenos Aires on public transport and cooking for himself in a small apartment.
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He has already told his fellow bishops in Argentina not to waste their money on travelling to Rome for his installation ceremony but to give the money instead to the poor.
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But what about Fr Guido Sarducci? What did the Pope have to say to him?
 
Actually this episode fits in perfectly with the personality that is unveiling before us.

Journalists have commented on the pope’s stark sense of humour. He continually cracks jokes - and this is a wonderful example of him teaching a serious lesson in a friendly, laughable manner.

Pope Francis is a unique individual and I think that the Holy Spirit has blessed us richly with this new pontiff.
 
Vouthon said:
Actually this episode fits in perfectly with the personality that is unveiling before us.

Journalists have commented on the pope’s stark sense of humour. He continually cracks jokes - and this is a wonderful example of him teaching a serious lesson in a friendly, laughable manner.

Pope Francis is a unique individual and I think that the Holy Spirit has blessed us richly with this new pontiff.
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:amen:
 
I doubt the Pope said anything mean or hurtful. It is his right to wear or not wear any additional items. We shouldn’t expect him to be just like any previous pope or constantly contrast him poorly with other person.

I will simply pray and see how things develop. I do not think the media will ever be too friendly to any true Catholic.
 
I sure hope the pope did not say that. Not only is it mean, it comes off as mocking our faith.
 
latingirl said:
I sure hope the pope did not say that. Not only is it mean, it comes off as mocking our faith.
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I don’t see it as mocking our faith. If he truly sees changes needed, he has the authority to make those changes. I would think he would be more wrong to go along with something he viewed as wrong just for political correctness.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
I don’t see it as mocking our faith. If he truly sees changes needed, he has the authority to make those changes. I would think he would be more wrong to go along with something he viewed as wrong just for political correctness.
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Every gesture, every color and piece of cloth in the Catholic faith has meaning and symbolism. These garments are part of our faith like the headscarves are a part of Muslim faith. If he didn’t want to wear it fine, but equating something as beautiful and symbolic as a papal garb to “carnival” is very disparaging. Let me give you an equivalent:, a priest goes to put on his alb and vestments and I say “no, the time for drag is over.”
 
latingirl said:
Every gesture, every color and piece of cloth in the Catholic faith has meaning and symbolism. These garments are part of our faith like the headscarves are a part of Muslim faith. If he didn’t want to wear it fine, but equating something as beautiful and symbolic as a papal garb to “carnival” is very disparaging.
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Were all those garments a part of the Church since Christ built it? If not, when and why did they become so important?
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Were all those garments a part of the Church since Christ built it? If not, when and why did they become so important?
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Catholic answers was not there the time the church was built, not cars or tweeter or television. You are making the common mistake of thinking that because something wasn’t there at the Church’s origin, that it is an innovation and needless. And yes, the garments of a pope or priest actually would correspond to the Jewish religion. The apostles would have understood vestments and capes better than you or I.

Everything in our faith is important, some things more important that others. If you don’t understand or appreciate the meaning of clerical garb, that is your issue.
 
latingirl said:
Every gesture, every color and piece of cloth in the Catholic faith has meaning and symbolism. These garments are part of our faith like the headscarves are a part of Muslim faith. If he didn’t want to wear it fine, but equating something as beautiful and symbolic as a papal garb to “carnival” is very disparaging. Let me give you an equivalent:, a priest goes to put on his alb and vestments and I say “no, the time for drag is over.”
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One would think that.

But as the 60’s were already a break with the past, how much worse can it get?
 
ProVobis said:
One would think that.

But as the 60’s were already a break with the past, how much worse can it get?
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I was truly hoping it would get better. I like Pope Francis’s idea of cutting off some of the fat but I pray he doesn’t take it too far, that is all.
 
latingirl said:
Catholic answers was not there the time the church was built, not cars or tweeter or television. You are making the common mistake of thinking that because something wasn’t there at the Church’s origin, that it is an innovation and needless. And yes, the garments of a pope or priest actually would correspond to the Jewish religion. The apostles would have understood vestments and capes better than you or I.

Everything in our faith is important, some things more important that others.
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Thank you for this. I did not have this perspective so concrete in my mind. It reminds me of Scott Hahn’s The Lamb’s Supper and the descriptions of mass.

Indeed, our very sacraments are physical. Matter is important. To deny this importance is --in a sense–denying the importance of the Eucharist. Christ left us himself in a material substance of bread and wine.

Forms matter.

I’m not saying the Holy Father is wrong. I’m saying there are multiple correct perspectives here, both Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI and our Pope Francis
 
latingirl said:
Catholic answers was not there the time the church was built, not cars or tweeter or television. You are making the common mistake of thinking that because something wasn’t there at the Church’s origin, that it is an innovation and needless. And yes, the garments of a pope or priest actually would correspond to the Jewish religion. The apostles would have understood vestments and capes better than you or I.

Everything in our faith is important, some things more important that others. If you don’t understand or appreciate the meaning of clerical garb, that is your issue.
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Please don’t take offense at my questions. They are genuine. I cannot understand your view if you don’t explain it to me. Maybe you’re right, but I see a simple man placing more importance on more important issues. What he wears is not as important as the Gospel teachings, and I don’t know of where the Gospels teach an importance on what the Apostles, or their successors wear/wore.
 
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