Pope Francis' Gentle Revolution: Inside Rolling Stone's New Issue

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-]/-]My knee jerk reaction to the idea of an article in Rolling Stone about Pope Francis was not complimentary of Rolling Stone magazine, a magazine I sometimes read and enjoy, but not about my beloved Holy, Roman and Apostolic Church. However, upon wading through the piece, and piece may not really a fitting word for such lengthy ramblings, I thought it was refreshingly fair and even grudgingly admiring of a Catholic Pope (albiet peppered with many of the usual snide remarks about his predecessor ) and that is good news. It’s worth a read when you have the time.
Who is Pope Francis? As the pieces come together together they form different pictures for different folks, each of us seeing him in the way we need to see him. I believe that is his genius. He shows us ourselves and asks us to look at how we can do more…love more.
I learned a lot from the books, encyclicals and collected talks of Pope Benedict and his shoes never bothered me a bit. Since no in this life can be brilliant in every endeavor, I don’t hold him criminally accountable for not being a great administrator. Will Francis be remembered as a great administrator? Was Jesus a great administrator? Administration of the world’s most influential and important repository of the faith and history of the western world, is crucial to its continued existence, but if there are no faithful to save it for, the secularists who only see dollar signs when they see our great monuments and treasures, will put a quick end to them and we will soon find our history with it’s great achievements, along with it’s great mistakes, dust in the wind.
This is where I think Francis has a chance to be a very important man in the history of the Church. By showing each of us how we belong and how we can and really must contribute to our brothers and sisters who need us, he may just save it for a while longer.
 
VeritasLuxMea said:
What did you all find wrong with it in specific?
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From the seventh paragraph on the first of six pages.
After the disastrous papacy of Benedict, a staunch traditionalist who looked like he should be wearing a striped shirt with knife-fingered gloves and menacing teenagers in their nightmares, (…)
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Good grief. :rolleyes:
I am interested in how the Church, Catholics in general and the Pope are perceived by others. I’ll read an article or watch a video even if it’s not easy to read or hear some of those thoughts but this reads like the com box at a anti-Catholic site. All that foaming at the mouth has to be dangerous to any one nearby.
 
ringil said:
Many of my friends will praise Francis while disparaging the previous Popes.

I always emphasize that yes Francis is great, but for us a Pope is a Pope. THey have different things to teach at different times and that all modern Popes have been mainly holy and good men.
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👍
 
SuperLuigi said:
Sounds like it’s just an excuse to trash more, dare I say it, “conservative” :rolleyes: Popes.

I stopped reading once they went after B16.
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I guess you can say RS was at least honest about it. I’m afraid sometimes these media folk do it by implication.
 
shelby_sun said:
Those that still focus on all those “rules” just want to justify their judgmental ways, pointing out the faults of others. Some Catholics need to get a grip and start loving more and judging less. That is what
this Pope is all about!
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Yeah right… the Pope is not concerned about some teachings of Jesus (those rules)…that’s why he gave a smackdown to Note Dame
Essential in this regard is the uncompromising witness of Catholic universities to the Church’s moral teaching, and the defense of her freedom, precisely in and through her institutions, to uphold that teaching as authoritatively proclaimed by the magisterium of her pastors. It is my hope that the University of Notre Dame will continue to offer unambiguous testimony to this aspect of its foundational Catholic identity, especially in the face of efforts, from whatever quarter, to dilute that indispensable witness.

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Dear Johnnyc176,

Regarding the Pope’s conversations with the University of Notre Dame, It doesn’t seem to be a smackdown at all. He states that it is his hope that Notre Dame “CONTINUE to offer unambiguous testimony to this respect of its foundational Catholic identity…”, meaning that they must be offering it now in order to CONTINUE to offer it in future years. 👍

Pax Christi
 
Domer1997 said:
Dear Johnnyc176,

Regarding the Pope’s conversations with the University of Notre Dame, It doesn’t seem to be a smackdown at all. He states that it is his hope that Notre Dame “CONTINUE to offer unambiguous testimony to this respect of its foundational Catholic identity…”, meaning that they must be offering it now in order to CONTINUE to offer it in future years. 👍

Pax Christi
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Do you consider it to be a mistake that Notre Dame gave Pres. Obama an honorary doctorate of law?
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
No one is saying that they cannot love a child. A bank robber can love a child. What The Pope is saying and what we are saying is that they cannot provide for a child.
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I don’t think the Pope is saying that. Gay couples can certainly provide homes for their children filled with strong bonds of love, support, faith in God, and financial security just like hetero couples. Children of homosexual couples are not statistically more prone to immoral or criminal behavior when compared to children of hetero couples. He must be saying something else.
 
PeopleB4Things said:
I don’t think the Pope is saying that. Gay couples can certainly provide homes for their children filled with strong bonds of love, support, faith in God, and financial security just like hetero couples. Children of homosexual couples are not statistically more prone to immoral or criminal behavior when compared to children of hetero couples. He must be saying something else.
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He was pretty clear. If you think he meant something else feel free to elaborate.

However it is worth noting that the same can be said for many situations for children. Many abusive families have support, faith in God, bonds of love, financial security, etc.

I think the point is that when you subject a child to sexual disorder and unnatural things, it can be abusive to the child. And I would wholeheartedly agree. Heather may have two mommies, but she is going to be damaged by that. In many deep ways.
 
Shelby Sun -

I agree. Our pope is not only astute, he’s got a great PR team packaging his message for public consumption. He’s already admitted that we need to tone down the abortion, gay and contraception rhetoric. These very few specific concerns are drowning out the bigger message of our mission and they are driving people away. We are all called to reach out and spread the news of the Lord. You can’t do that when the only thing people know is how we beat them over the head with birth control. You get them hooked with the bigger message of love and charity. Help your fellow man. Sacrifice. Think of how you can spread the love of God by tamping down judgement and ratcheting up the idea of a universalism and social justice for all humans. Once you get them hooked, then you can lay down the basic framework of our specific faith.

I’ve read repeatedly in this forum how people who can’t abide by the rules should find some other faith. To convert people, your need to give them time to be in several worlds at once. To demand immediate and complete conformity is unrealistic, anti-conversion, and possibly detrimental to the church. Even the Jesuit missionaries knew that they couldn’t completely convert people at once. They allowed in many cases, the combination of faiths, which has brought about many beautiful ceremonies and applications of our faith. I listened to a guest lecturer in one of my classes. He discussed the work of Jesuit missionaries in South America. He told us how the Catholics there would tie a bag, a bolsita, around the next of a dead person. It contained items that would help the dead arrive safely in heaven. Is that awesome or what? The Jesuits were able to combine the Catholic faith and the native beliefs so that the indigenous peoples would be more accepting of Christ. Concerns like the need for bolsitas pale in comparison to the big picture. Jesus is their Lord and Savior. He died to save them from their sins. He is present in the Eucharist. His mission for them is of charity, sacrifice and love. Top it off with the 10 Commandments & the adoration of Mary and you got a strong faith community in transition, even if they still tie bolsitas around the necks of their dead.

Big picture first seems to be the goal of our new Pope. Good for him. Better to gather the flock with tenderness and kindness than push them away with harsh rhetoric and divisiveness.
 
PeopleB4Things said:
Big picture first seems to be the goal of our new Pope. Good for him. Better to gather the flock with tenderness and kindness than push them away with harsh rhetoric and divisiveness.
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Our Catholic Faith is a big picture. It encompasses the fullness of Truth. That is why we must share the whole Gospel not just the easy teachings of Jesus but also the hard ones. So yes I believe that is the goal of the Holy Father…

ncregister.com/daily-news/pope-francis-a-christian-without-the-church-is-an-absurd-dichotomy#When:2014-01-31%2001:59:01#ixzz2rwegcaMm
“It is an absurd dichotomy to love Christ without the Church; to listen to Christ, but not the Church; to be with Christ at the margins of the Church,” he said. “One cannot do this. It is an absurd dichotomy.”
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and…

en.radiovaticana.va/m_articolo.asp?c=768716
“Essential in this regard,” he continued, “is the uncompromising witness of Catholic universities to the Church’s moral teaching, and the defense of her freedom, precisely in and through her institutions, to uphold that teaching as authoritatively proclaimed by the magisterium of her pastors.” Pope Francis said, “It is my hope that the University of Notre Dame will continue to offer unambiguous testimony to this aspect of its foundational Catholic identity, especially in the face of efforts, from whatever quarter, to dilute that indispensable witness.”
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And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you (compassion). Go your way, and from now on do not sin again (conversion).”
 
johnnyc176 said:
Our Catholic Faith is a big picture. It encompasses the fullness of Truth. That is why we must share the whole Gospel not just the easy teachings of Jesus but also the hard ones. So yes I believe that is the goal of the Holy Father…

ncregister.com/daily-news/pope-francis-a-christian-without-the-church-is-an-absurd-dichotomy#When:2014-01-31%2001:59:01#ixzz2rwegcaMm

and…

en.radiovaticana.va/m_articolo.asp?c=768716

And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you (compassion). Go your way, and from now on do not sin again (conversion).”
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Thank you for taking the time to read my post and voice your opinion.
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
He was pretty clear. If you think he meant something else feel free to elaborate.

However it is worth noting that the same can be said for many situations for children. Many abusive families have support, faith in God, bonds of love, financial security, etc.

I think the point is that when you subject a child to sexual disorder and unnatural things, it can be abusive to the child. And I would wholeheartedly agree. Heather may have two mommies, but she is going to be damaged by that. In many deep ways.
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I’m just saying, gay couples are as successful in raising children in faith, love and security as heterosexual couples. It’s been documented that their children have turned out to be normal well adjusted adults (source: longitudinal study of children of lesbian couples, Williams Institute, UCLA School of Law). In fact, the study showed 0% child abuse rates in those families. So if our pope said homosexuals are unable to successfully raise children when clearly they already have, he’s either a liar or in denial. I don’t attribute either of those characterizations to our pope. There’s something else here.
 
PeopleB4Things said:
I’m just saying, gay couples are as successful in raising children in faith, love and security as heterosexual couples. It’s been documented that their children have turned out to be normal well adjusted adults (source: longitudinal study of children of lesbian couples, Williams Institute, UCLA School of Law). In fact, the study showed 0% child abuse rates in those families. So if our pope said homosexuals are unable to successfully raise children when clearly they already have, he’s either a liar or in denial. I don’t attribute either of those characterizations to our pope. There’s something else here.
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You keep saying there is something else here. But you don’t say what.

Do you support homosexual adoption?
Do you think ABC is ok?
 
PeopleB4Things said:
I’m just saying, gay couples are as successful in raising children in faith, love and security as heterosexual couples. It’s been documented that their children have turned out to be normal well adjusted adults (source: longitudinal study of children of lesbian couples, Williams Institute, UCLA School of Law). In fact, the study showed 0% child abuse rates in those families. So if our pope said homosexuals are unable to successfully raise children when clearly they already have, he’s either a liar or in denial. I don’t attribute either of those characterizations to our pope. There’s something else here.
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It is always odd to me when someone does not agree with the Pope or if what he said does not line up with personal beliefs how the Pope must have been mistaken.🤷 That goes for both conservative and liberal branches. Perhaps, just perhaps, what the Pope said and what his position is is quite Catholic.:eek: It will come to light more and more as this pontificate ages that what many laud as the “pope of hope and change” is in fact. Catholic.

I always wonder about those who say the Pope said this or that, in regards to abortion or homosexuality, just exactly what their own personal beliefs are. It seems, those who are not really pro life, think he said something that he did not. They are not the type of people who seem to educate about life issues, or who seem to evangelize at all.🤷 Usually these people will have some beef with the CHurch on a life issue, homosexual issue, or just a moral secular issue more than a religious one.

I wonder, what are your views on homosexual marriage, adoption, and abortion and contraception. And do they line up with the Pope?

Are you willing to put the study you cited ahead of the wisdom of the Church? Are you saying that homosexual couples should adopt?
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
It is always odd to me when someone does not agree with the Pope or if what he said does not line up with personal beliefs how the Pope must have been mistaken.🤷 That goes for both conservative and liberal branches. Perhaps, just perhaps, what the Pope said and what his position is is quite Catholic.:eek: It will come to light more and more as this pontificate ages that what many laud as the “pope of hope and change” is in fact. Catholic.

I always wonder about those who say the Pope said this or that, in regards to abortion or homosexuality, just exactly what their own personal beliefs are. It seems, those who are not really pro life, think he said something that he did not. They are not the type of people who seem to educate about life issues, or who seem to evangelize at all.🤷 Usually these people will have some beef with the CHurch on a life issue, homosexual issue, or just a moral secular issue more than a religious one.

I wonder, what are your views on homosexual marriage, adoption, and abortion and contraception. And do they line up with the Pope?

Are you willing to put the study you cited ahead of the wisdom of the Church? Are you saying that homosexual couples should adopt?
Click to expand...
 
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