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twf
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I’m pretty sure he’s gone to his reward? Living Saints was the subject 
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Cruciferi
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He’s recently alive 
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jfz178
Guest
I’m not saying he shouldn’t have stepped down, that’s his business. I just think it calls into question his claims on sainthood. Can you deny that Popes are generally expected to hang in there until God calls them home, when 261 out of 266 of them have done that? Leo XIII went until 93 and that was in the late 1800’s, without the medical advances we have today. And Benedict is still kicking and still mentally sharp by all accounts. Clearly he had more years he could have given and he chose not to. Again, his choice, fine. But sainthood?
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angel12
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As you said, “generally expected.” Assuming he had good reasons (and we may not know all of them), I don’t see where it would be a bar to canonization. It’s not like he denied dogma.
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rcwitness
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I dont see a whole lot of merit in Catholics praising the Pope. Honor the poor, ugly guy near you who nobody likes and has no rank in the Church, then it might be something benificial.
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Spyridon
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I don’t see a whole lot of merit in Catholics refusing to give the Pope the reverence and honor due his office, and especially such a holy and humble Pope as Pope Francis, neither do I see the merit in Catholics holding him in disdain for whatever reason. I think it’s a very spiritually dangerous attitude to despise the Pope.
Without fail, every single schism since the Protestant Reformation has been enacted by people who despised the Pope.
It’s an attitude rooted in pride and disobedience. There is nothing at all virtous about constant harsh criticism and an attitude of contempt toward the Holy Father. The great Saints, when they rebuked the Pope (which rarely happened) always did so with the utmost dignity, respect, obedience, and charity.
The people I see “rebuking” the Pope today, by and large are not doing it with dignity, respect, obedience, and charity. For the most part they do it with discomposure, disrespect, insubordination, and malevolence.
Without fail, every single schism since the Protestant Reformation has been enacted by people who despised the Pope.
It’s an attitude rooted in pride and disobedience. There is nothing at all virtous about constant harsh criticism and an attitude of contempt toward the Holy Father. The great Saints, when they rebuked the Pope (which rarely happened) always did so with the utmost dignity, respect, obedience, and charity.
The people I see “rebuking” the Pope today, by and large are not doing it with dignity, respect, obedience, and charity. For the most part they do it with discomposure, disrespect, insubordination, and malevolence.
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abucs
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My mother is the holiest person on earth that I know about.
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Spyridon
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God bless her, and Merry Christmas!
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rcwitness
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I have actually never met a Catholic who despises Pope Francis. He gets treated like a rock star wherever he goes.
Double honor to those who work hard and preach the Gospel!
Im not trying to take away honor from Pope Francis. But its easy to hail him. Its difficult to honor the less prominent members in the Church.
Double honor to those who work hard and preach the Gospel!
Im not trying to take away honor from Pope Francis. But its easy to hail him. Its difficult to honor the less prominent members in the Church.
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Spyridon
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I’m not saying we shouldn’t honor every person, especially the lowly.
Pope Francis would be the first one to fully agree with you there @rcwitness
But there are most definitely Catholics who despise the Pope. There are entire websites and forums filled with Catholics whose disdain for the Pope is palpable.
Pope Francis would be the first one to fully agree with you there @rcwitness
But there are most definitely Catholics who despise the Pope. There are entire websites and forums filled with Catholics whose disdain for the Pope is palpable.
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rcwitness
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Well, isnt that the way it should be?
If they hated Jesus, how much more will they hate whom He places in authority?
The thing is, is that most of us will never meet the pope, let alone have a realistic relationship with him.
We do, however, meet the small people who make our parishes function. We do have a relationship with Jesus through our neighbors and fellow parishioners.
Im not saying im great at it at all! Im not! But im also not trying to feel good about myself for praising Pope Francis.
There are people in our parishes struggling to find hope and support in their walk. People getting discouraged left and right. People needing to be admonished in a kind spirit for failing to faithfully follow what Jesus Teaches through His Church!
So im not moved by “Pope praisers”. It doesnt really seem to make much difference in our neighbor’s lives.
If they hated Jesus, how much more will they hate whom He places in authority?
The thing is, is that most of us will never meet the pope, let alone have a realistic relationship with him.
We do, however, meet the small people who make our parishes function. We do have a relationship with Jesus through our neighbors and fellow parishioners.
Im not saying im great at it at all! Im not! But im also not trying to feel good about myself for praising Pope Francis.
There are people in our parishes struggling to find hope and support in their walk. People getting discouraged left and right. People needing to be admonished in a kind spirit for failing to faithfully follow what Jesus Teaches through His Church!
So im not moved by “Pope praisers”. It doesnt really seem to make much difference in our neighbor’s lives.
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rcwitness
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Luke 18
He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous and despised others: 10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank thee that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week, I give tithes of all that I get.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for every one who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous and despised others: 10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank thee that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week, I give tithes of all that I get.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for every one who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
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graciew
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Merry Christmas,jfz!
He is alive and kicking ,and fine as far as we know.
Sainthood will or will not be,that is left for the Church in the future.
It is more of an expression of love and appreciation when we say this here.
If you ask if having stepped down makes him less of a special friend of God, no. I do not think so. A saint? Time will tell. For me just saying yes to carry and lead Christianity is already much more than I can fathom in virtue,but not a reason for you and I to dispute anything.Much less that about his holiness which is way beyond our hands.
He is alive and kicking ,and fine as far as we know.
Sainthood will or will not be,that is left for the Church in the future.
It is more of an expression of love and appreciation when we say this here.
If you ask if having stepped down makes him less of a special friend of God, no. I do not think so. A saint? Time will tell. For me just saying yes to carry and lead Christianity is already much more than I can fathom in virtue,but not a reason for you and I to dispute anything.Much less that about his holiness which is way beyond our hands.
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jfz178
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FYI, being pope does not create an expectation of sainthood. Only about 30% of popes have been made saints and most of those were in the first millennium of the Church. Many of those early ones were martyrs. Only seven popes have been canonized in the last 1,133 years. In that time, only eight popes have renounced the office and only one of those was made a saint, St. Celestine V, in 1313.
There were some pretty great popes in the last millennia who did not make the cut, including Benedict XV, who inspired Benedict the XVI to take the name. Benedict XV was pope during WWI and worked tirelessly to try to negotiate an end to the war, even though it cost the Vatican a lot of political capital. He also organized POW exchanges and assistance for children affected by the war. He had the foresight to say that the Versailles agreement that ended the war was too harsh on Germany and would lead to trouble later on, which of course it did with the Nazis. I would say Benedict the XVI’s accomplishments pale in comparison. And there are others…
There were some pretty great popes in the last millennia who did not make the cut, including Benedict XV, who inspired Benedict the XVI to take the name. Benedict XV was pope during WWI and worked tirelessly to try to negotiate an end to the war, even though it cost the Vatican a lot of political capital. He also organized POW exchanges and assistance for children affected by the war. He had the foresight to say that the Versailles agreement that ended the war was too harsh on Germany and would lead to trouble later on, which of course it did with the Nazis. I would say Benedict the XVI’s accomplishments pale in comparison. And there are others…
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