K
KMG
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This document delineates the problems of AL better than anything out there.
Reread the 1972 steering document I provided you and the answer should be clear.Why? Cardinal Napier’s question about polygamy makes the same exact point. Why special consideration for adultery and not other sins?
The Church is Church of the New Covenant, but it lives in a world in which there continues to exist unchanged that “hardness of … heart” (Mt 19:8) which drove Moses to legislate. So what can be done concretely, especially at a time in which the faith is being watered down more and more, even within the Church, and the “things with which the pagans are concerned,” against which the Lord warns the disciples (cf. Mt 6:32), threaten to become ever more the norm?
First of all, and essentially, it must proclaim the message of faith in a convincing and comprehensible way and seek to open spaces in which this can be truly lived. The healing of “hardness of heart” can come only through faith, and only where this is alive is it possible to live what the Creator had destined for man before sin. This is why the main and truly fundamental thing that the Church must do is to make faith living and strong.
At the same time, the Church must continue to seek to plumb the breadth and boundaries of the words of Jesus. It must remain faithful to the mandate of the Lord, and cannot even stretch it very much. It appears to me that the “clauses of fornication” that Matthew added to the words of the Lord handed down by Mark already reflect such an effort.
You are quite right, this observation should have been added to balance out some of the observations I made re a young Fr Ratzinger acting more freely as scholar and theologian in 1972 than as Pope Emeritus 45 years later.Second, the text referred to from then-Cardinal Ratzinger was actually retracted by Pope Benedict XVI. [A new conclusion
A few years later, in 1991, canon lawyer Fr. Theodore Davey quoted the relevant parts of Cardinal Ratzinger’s 1972 document in the 7/21/1991 issue of The Tablet as he tried to find support for the view that certain couples living more uxorio could receive the Eucharist. In a letter to the editor of the same magazine in the 10/26/1991 issue, Cardinal Ratzinger disagrees with Fr. Davey’s conclusions and labels his “suggestions” as no longer tenable in light of FC 84. Cardinal Ratzinger replies that what he had previously written were not “norms in any official sense”, but instead “formed part of a suggestion I made as a theologian in 1972. Their implementation in pastoral practice would of course necessarily depend on their corroboration by an official act of the Magisterium to whose judgment I would submit… Now, the Magisterium subsequently spoke decisively on this question in the person of the present Holy Father [St. John Paul II] in Familiaris consortio.”“The problem of divorced and remarried persons, who are truly faithful and desire to participate in the life of the Church, is one of the most difficult pastoral concerns in many parts of the world. It will be up to the synod to show the correct approach to pastors in this matter.”
For what it’s worth, I do not believe that Pope Francis has deviated from constant Church teaching in AL. In their pastoral letters, bishops such as Archbishop Chaput, Archbishop Sample, Bishop Steven Lopes, Bishop Pedro Daniel Martinez Perea and the Polish bishops’ conference (among others) have all maintained that Pope Francis is in continuity with his predecessors regarding the reception of Holy Communion, and they also maintain that AL does not allow some of those divorced and remarried now living more uxorio to receive the Eucharist. This would go against the clarification of the Church’s teaching found in the CDF’s 1998 letter that “The conscience of the individual is bound to this norm without exception.”"[Some] say that theological notions of epikeia and aequitas canonica could serve to justify, from moral theology as well as juridically, a decision of conscience at variance from the general norm. …
"Epikeia and aequitas canonica exist in the sphere of human and purely ecclesiastical norms of great significance, but cannot be applied to those norms over which the Church has no discretionary authority. The indissoluble nature of marriage is one of these norms which goes back to Christ Himself and is thus identified as a norm of divine law. The Church cannot sanction pastoral practices - for example, sacramental pastoral practices - which contradict the clear instruction of the Lord.
“In other words, if the prior marriage of two divorced and remarried members of the faithful was valid, under no circumstances can their new union be considered lawful and therefore reception of the sacraments is intrinsically impossible. The conscience of the individual is bound to this norm without exception.”
his view on this evolved, and evolved to the point that he was thinking with the mind of the Church.
I think he has always wanted to think with the mind of the Church at the different stages of his life and given his different roles demanding different freedoms and responsibilities. The issue of course is deciding exactly what the mind of the Church is over time. I don’t think he has ever clearly claimed enough clarity in himself to definitively decide what that might be or even could be even when he was Pope and had every opportunity to do so.
Well this is a little vague and the quote you provided (“its up to the Synod”) does not seem to “correct” anything other than, like Card Kasper, he will go with the Church. His 1972 article makes the possibility of a Communion case (based on history), it doesn’t say it should be the case.that document (FC) corrected the viewpoint that he held as a young theologian in 1972.
This also is somewhat vague. I would be interested in a link to the referenced docs if you have them. I am not seeing Pope Benedict’s views on the matter as monolithic but many layered with multiple arguments that even in 1992 he opined needed to be investigated further. The separate arguments need to be teased out to see exactly what status each has.A few years later, in 1991, canon lawyer Fr. Theodore Davey quoted the relevant parts of Cardinal Ratzinger’s 1972 document in the 7/21/1991 issue of The Tablet as he tried to find support for the view that certain couples living more uxorio could receive the Eucharist. In a letter to the editor of the same magazine in the 10/26/1991 issue, Cardinal Ratzinger disagrees with Fr. Davey’s conclusions and labels his “suggestions” as no longer tenable in light of FC 84.
Well that needs considerable unpacking I think if you are trying to make the case you seem to be makingNow, the Magisterium subsequently spoke decisively on this question in the person of the present Holy Father [St. John Paul II] in Familiaris consortio.”
I didn’t mean to suggest he said nothing, I meant to suggest exactly what you stated: “he distanced himself” from his former viewpoint. But what does that mean? That is what I was trying to unpack above. As I opine, he distanced himself from his prudential suggestions of 1972…but how can he distance himself from his actual scholarly and historical findings which form the bulk of his 1972 article. he didn’t. It is clear the Church has not actually had a perennial or unanimous practice, praxis or “doctrine” on the matter. That was his clear scholarly finding. I have not seen any evidence he has “distanced” himself from that research or his immediate theoretic conclusions.Far from going quiet on the matter, Cardinal Ratzinger …
Well, that again is a fairly generalised assertion without specific content - I am willing to look at your sources for concluding this? The problem with using FC as some sort of definitive silver bullet is that AL contradicts this interpretation and so renders the assertion sterile. The only logical out for this dilemma is to say one of the Popes is wrong…or both are making definitive yet non infallible personal prudential judgements on matters of discipline. Either way, the possibility of a doctrinal clarification being on the table seems to me to be 100% ruled out. For how can two Popes disagree on a doctrinal matter if it has allegedly been definitively settled by one of them (and the other is in error). The doctrinal issue therefore still remains to be clarified (if indeed it isnt now already settled in favour of Communion being more loosely linked than traditionally assumed).and saw things much differently once FC reaffirmed the teaching of the Church (which was unified, seen upon study)
I agree, I do not go along with Cardinal Kaspers use of Epikeia type arguments either. Nor does the good Cardinal himself! Like Card Ratz he has always professed to align with the final views of the Church (see his 2017 Youtube interview) and was flying kites to raise a dialogue as instructed to by Pope Francis.Notice he does not support Cardinal Kasper’s proposal on giving certain people who fall into this group an “OK” to receive the Blessed Sacrament. Cardinal Ratzinger states his position (and that of the Church’s) even more forcefully in the CDF’s 1998 document
No doubt that is because you do not accept (what is for me the objectively incontrovertible) meaning revealed by the ArgentinianGuidelines approved by PFI.For what it’s worth, I do not believe that Pope Francis has deviated from constant Church teaching in AL.
As above I saw that coming a mile offthey also maintain that AL does not allow some of those divorced and remarried now living more uxorio to receive the Eucharist.
Well if there is an apparent contradiction then there are other equally valid ways to resolve the matter rather than go with one’s own pre-set views (i.e. AL cannot be saying what it seems to be saying).This would go against the clarification of the Church’s teaching found in the CDF’s 1998 letter that “The conscience of the individual is bound to this norm without exception.”
Unfortunately, I could not find the entirety of the letter online. This was the most complete version that I could find. Nonetheless, I don’t find this vague at all. Of course this issue can be investigated further, and it has, butI would be interested in a link to the referenced docs if you have them. I am not seeing Pope Benedict’s views on the matter as monolithic but many layered with multiple arguments that even in 1992 he opined needed to be investigated further. …
Well the “case” isn’t being made by myself, but by Cardinal Ratzinger. The Cardinal points out that FC reaffirmed the teaching of the Church, which is not compatible with what the Cardinal was suggesting in the original conclusion of his 1972 text.billy15:![]()
Now, the Magisterium subsequently spoke decisively on this question in the person of the present Holy Father [St. John Paul II] in Familiaris consortio.”
Well that needs considerable unpacking I think if you are trying to make the case you seem to be making
Well, he obviously did not see it as clear, as he rewrote his conclusion. The evidence is from my original post; what was changed was precisely that, his conclusion. That doesn’t invalidate what he said earlier in the essay, but it is apparent that he has drawn new conclusions compared to what he had concluded in 1972.It is clear the Church has not actually had a perennial or unanimous practice, praxis or “doctrine” on the matter. That was his clear scholarly finding. I have not seen any evidence he has “distanced” himself from that research or his immediate theoretic conclusions.
It was fairly generalized, and for space. But yes, I am happy to send you my sources that have led me to this conclusion. There is a lengthy and very in depth (but not exhaustive) treatment on this subject given by Fr. Brian W. Harrison, O.S. entitled “Divorced and Invalidly Remarried Catholics: The Magisterial Tradition”. Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to find an online version of this essay, and it seems that it’s only available in print in a subscription based magazine. It was just written this past summer, by the way. In this case, I don’t think it’d be right to share photocopies publicly, but if you’d like, I can send you a PM with pictures of my personal copy. I don’t mind sharing with you. (And if anyone else is interested, feel free to send me a PM).Well, that again is a fairly generalised assertion without specific content - I am willing to look at your sources for concluding this?
Are you saying that AL contradicts FC 84’s interpretation when you say “this interpretation”? FC is not a “silver bullet”. As I mentioned, it simply reaffirmed Church teaching, as did the CDF’s 1998 letter, so I reject your view that it could be in error. You would have to show where Cardinal Ratzinger supposedly made a mistake. But there were many other documents and declarations of the ordinary Magisterium regarding access to Holy Communion for those divorced and remarried living more uxorio. And per the Second Vatican Council (Lumen Gentium 25), these declarations by the ordinary Magisterium are infallible.The problem with using FC as some sort of definitive silver bullet is that AL contradicts this interpretation and so renders the assertion sterile.
Based off of your final comment in post 112, I take it, then, that you disagree with the bishops I had listed. You would more follow the interpretation given by Bishop McElroy, Bishop Elbs, the Maltase Bishops and others, it appears. Again, it’s not that one of the popes (St. John Paul or Francis) are wrong, but that “confused interpreters… are proposing interpretations that contradict the previous Magisterium.”…the possibility of a doctrinal clarification being on the table seems to me to be 100% ruled out. For how can two Popes disagree on a doctrinal matter if it has allegedly been definitively settled by one of them (and the other is in error).
Your expectations are correct.It is objectively quite clear to me, and always has been, that AL does in principle open Communion possibilities in some cases. I don’t expect you to agree given what you state above.
Now, His Holiness his definitely showing us in AL how to be merciful to others, but I do not maintain (as you and others do) that there are “new possibilities” for those who have not gone through the annulment process. Such a notion would contradict what bishops the world over have been saying, that AL has changed nothing regarding faith and morals. As an aside, Fr. Harrison explains what that term "fides et mores actually pertains to:The pastoral implications of Amoris laetitia have been the object of much attention, and some controversy. The hermeneutic required for a fruitful appropriation of the document’s teaching on this point is based on the understanding that none of the teaching of the Church has been changed: This includes the doctrine on the indissolubility of marriage, the directives of the Code of Canon Law, and also the role of individual conscience in the determination of personal culpability.
The exhortation does not create some sort of internal forum process in which a marriage can be annulled, or in which the objective moral order can be changed. Instead, the exhortation places greater emphasis on the role of the individual conscience in appropriating those moral norms in the person’s actual circumstances.
The judgment of conscience of an individual believer does not replace or change the objective teachings of the Church, but it does address his or her culpability before God for their actions.
"n the context of the term fides et mores, fides means ‘faith’ in the narrow sense of speculative (purely intellectual) beliefs such as those we profess in the Creeds, while mores, in contrast, covers all practical, behavioral norms and customs that Catholics are to observe; and the Church can discern some of these customs or practices to be immutably necessary for integral Catholic living and so teach this fact infallibly. Examples of such infallibly enjoined practices that are not also part of the natural moral law would be the observance of Sunday instead of Saturday under the New Covenant, and the need for infant baptism.”