Pope Francis: many young people in the Church have fallen into the ‘temptation of rigidity’

[TK421]

Guys. Go to the Traditional Catholicism forum and/or Liturgy/Sacraments and browse for awhile. It’s not as bad as it would be because many threads/posts have been deleted.

Rigidity, in the negative sense, is a real thing and not rare. The Pope is an extremely active man and was very active in the world prior to his pontificate: he isn’t armchair theorycrafting and he isn’t a “liberal Pope”.

Devout Catholics dispassionately and maybe even maliciously lobbing “truth bombs” are spiritually assaulting & murdering people by the millions.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

I think the pope really needs to come out and clearly say what he thinks because at least the English translation is not making sense.

You cannot be rigid and have a double life. A double life negates the characteristic of rigidness.

If you are rigid with respect to something then you are not changing.

There should be more rigid Catholics. Rigidness in no way denotes being unmerciful and it is an incoherent insult to suggest it does.

Perhaps the English translation of this word is lacking.

After living through a period of time where the church was decimated in the west exactly because it lacked rigidness I rejoice that there are now young Catholics being rigid in the faith. If the older generation would have been more rigid in the faith we would not have participated in the abuse of children and could talk with more authority about such sin.

That’s what I was thinking. I don’t think he meant “ridged”. Being ridged in the faith is essential, and we are told sin happens (that’s why there is confessional, we are told). Does claiming what is right to do, but one day falling, make one a hypocrite when they claim something is right or wrong, before the misfortune of giving into temptation happens? If that is the case, all clergy better be free from all sin, or they are all hypocrites by this translation. I don’t understand either what the pope meant.

And you are correct, ridged is not always unmerciful, sometimes being totally liberal is unmerciful…and is worse because it denotes total lack of concern what may happen to a person if they fall into a sin and that harm that may come their way by doing it.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

Guys. Go to the Traditional Catholicism forum and/or Liturgy/Sacraments and browse for awhile. It’s not as bad as it would be because many threads/posts have been deleted.

Rigidity, in the negative sense, is a real thing and not rare. The Pope is an extremely active man and was very active in the world prior to his pontificate: he isn’t armchair theorycrafting and he isn’t a “liberal Pope”.

Devout Catholics dispassionately and maybe even maliciously lobbing “truth bombs” are spiritually assaulting & murdering people by the millions.

There is a time when " truth bombs " are necessary and called for. Jesus did as such. I would agree there are such people who act on such a notion without prudence, and it causes harm. I wouldn’t call that rigidity though. Harshness, lack of compassion, lack of knowledge, maybe…but ridged doesn’t sound like the right word. It may be a translation problem.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

The Holy Father Francis is merely talking about certain Catholics who attack others and act like Pharisees.

…

Yes, this seems most likely. It’s sad that the translation seems to be so unclear. Perhaps the faithful ought start learning Italian language…or we just go back to learning and speaking in Latin so that we don’t have to worry about those fluctuations in modern used languages that create problems of misunderstandings, which can create divisions unnessessarily.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

I think I understand mostly what the pope us saying and speaking about. I think it could be summed up that these he speak of are not circumcised of the heart- as scripture speaks of. They aren’t really either fully or truly converted…yet, in the heart. It’s not just in Catholicism either…then again, I guess that could happen and people can still turn into Pharisees.

 

[7_Sorrows]

For the sake of the Church, i hope you’re right!!!

How many of us are sick of hearing that word???

As you inferred, rigidity can mean having backbone, which too many these days don’t appear to have.

I join you! There is a negative connection to the word “rigid” in all the examples.

I remember a study many years ago about republicans and this was the very word used
to describe republicans and I don’t think it was meant as a compliment.

 

[St_Francis]

What is rigidity?
Is it having a preference for the EF?
Is it adhering to Catholic doctrine?
Is it hypocrisy? Sometimes it seems that hypocrisy is what is meant, but if that is the case why not use that word?
Is it being judgmental? The young people I know, even those of a traditional bent, are seldom judgmental.
Is it lack of compassion? Lack of mercy?
It seems to me that rigidity could apply to anyone along the spectrum from traditional to liberal.

I totally agree with your last statement. Perhaps Pipe Francis still has some hope for the young, so he mentions them more frequently? Because older people can be just as censorious as young people. But you are lucky in the young people you know. A lot of them are censorious of those who are not on- board with SSM, for instance: many are censorious in their denunciation of such–see what I mean?

And I certsinly agree that censoriousness can attach to people of all “backgrounds,” not just those who are traditional. From those who call women wearing slacks at any time for any purpose immodest (please do not go into this topic on this thread!) to those who vilify people who do not believe in AGW, there is harshness and rigidity.

The Pope does usually bring up hypocrisy and a lack of mercy when he speaks about the evil of “rigidity,” so I think he has something in mind which is not translated well into English.

 

[friardchips]

Dictionary meanings for the word ‘rigid’:

rɪˈdʒɪdɪti/

noun
inability to be to bent or be forced out of shape.
“the tough substance that gives plants their rigidity”
inability to be changed or adapted.
“the rigidity of the school system”

We have to ‘adapt’, or rather, allow ourselves to be molded, by remaining open to the Holy Spirit, in every era, through our Catholic faith: true faith does not equal rigidity.

There are some who say one thing but are “rigid” in other areas, and being rigid in one way, contradicts the other ways.

This interior rigidity manifests into a kind of idol worship because we look overly to those external things in neglect of our interior dispositions, and this is akin to looking to ourselves for own our needs instead of being able to trustingly say to God, interiorly: “Let thy Will be done”.

Faith can never lose interiority, as faith begins with the prayerful disposition, via grace, and this relational aspect then allows for our outward actions to be, not in competition with, but rather animated by, our faith-filled interiority.

Instead of hypocrites, we become disciples.

 

[johnnyc176]

Stop bashing the Holy Father.

It’s not bashing the Holy Father. Obviously there is division within the Church. What you call bashing is more often disagreement. Someone responds that the Pope’s opinion is correct and someone else disagrees with it. We certainly do not want to get to the point like in the secular world where the liberal agenda looks to censor all opposing beliefs or label them as ‘hate’ speech.

 

[JakeWI]

I fall into the younger demographic, and in thinking about it… I can see where some youth could fall into the trap of being “rigid”. I am one of them who has “grown” in my faith, and become less “rigid” and more “open” to the holy spirit, while still adhering to the truth of the faith.

Where I was rigid was with music. Organ or bust. Chant or bust. I would get angry about certain instruments being used. While there is still some truth to what the organ provides to Mass, you can make beautiful music with numerous instruments. I have been to guitar type Masses before that are very subdued and not in your face entertainment. When it becomes a performance in any case, it is overbearing and overtakes the intent of the Mass, the Eucharist and the word. However, I have had to grow by opening myself to experience and research more.

I can see some being rigid in judging others… in the Latin Mass, I can see some judge a person for not having a veil on (my wife is one of the few who wears a veil to our Ordinary Form Mass, and I am sure some judge her for that). Some could question the reason why a person does that, which is what we all should do as Christians, but not judge without knowing the background. I also know some youth who are on the verge of not accepting the Ordinary Form as legitimate, or as a foul of Vatican II. I love the Extraordinary form, but I equally love a reverent Ordinary form Mass, too.

Maybe judge is a better word than rigidity, or in this case, they can go hand in hand… meaning that we are sometimes stuck in our own worlds that we cannot adapt to different practices in the faith that are totally legitimate and are part of the true faith. There are some crazy things that happen in some Masses that aren’t acceptable in practice, but I am not talking about those things here. And many who are in high school/college may put off this certain “I know what is right” thing… I know because I was at that point around that time.

I do believe you can be open minded about the faith and learning more (as we should), and still stay true to it as well.

 

[Ridgerunner]

What is rigidity?
Is it having a preference for the EF?
Is it adhering to Catholic doctrine?
Is it hypocrisy? Sometimes it seems that hypocrisy is what is meant, but if that is the case why not use that word?
Is it being judgmental? The young people I know, even those of a traditional bent, are seldom judgmental.
Is it lack of compassion? Lack of mercy?
It seems to me that rigidity could apply to anyone along the spectrum from traditional to liberal.

Good post.

Some of the most “liberal” of Catholics are the least tolerant. Intolerant of those who like the Latin Mass. Intolerant of those who believe in going to confession. Intolerant of those who oppose abortion politically. Intolerant of those who want to be chaste. Intolerant of priestly celibacy. Intolerant of an all-male priesthood. Intolerant of the Pope himself. Intolerant of those who believe marriage should be between a man and a woman.

Nobody among the “Trads” I know even remotely approaches the rigidity of some of those who pride themselves on being “in the spirit of VII”, though “totalitarian” is probably a better epithet for some.

Possibly the Holy Father was talking about those of whatever religious practice who are harsh and intolerant toward others, wrapped up in self-righteousness and pride.

 

[twf]

I think the pope really needs to come out and clearly say what he thinks because at least the English translation is not making sense.

You cannot be rigid and have a double life. A double life negates the characteristic of rigidness.

If you are rigid with respect to something then you are not changing.

There should be more rigid Catholics. Rigidness in no way denotes being unmerciful and it is an incoherent insult to suggest it does.

Perhaps the English translation of this word is lacking.

After living through a period of time where the church was decimated in the west exactly because it lacked rigidness I rejoice that there are now young Catholics being rigid in the faith. If the older generation would have been more rigid in the faith we would not have participated in the abuse of children and could talk with more authority about such sin.

If you’re right, this communication / translation issue has been ongoing for a few years now. Calling out “rigid Catholics” (and “rigid” priests) has been a key often repeated theme of the Holy Father’s preaching.

 

[friardchips]

I fall into the younger demographic, and in thinking about it… I can see where some youth could fall into the trap of being “rigid”. I am one of them who has “grown” in my faith, and become less “rigid” and more “open” to the holy spirit, while still adhering to the truth of the faith.

Where I was rigid was with music. Organ or bust. Chant or bust. I would get angry about certain instruments being used. While there is still some truth to what the organ provides to Mass, you can make beautiful music with numerous instruments. I have been to guitar type Masses before that are very subdued and not in your face entertainment. When it becomes a performance in any case, it is overbearing and overtakes the intent of the Mass, the Eucharist and the word. However, I have had to grow by opening myself to experience and research more.

I can see some being rigid in judging others… in the Latin Mass, I can see some judge a person for not having a veil on (my wife is one of the few who wears a veil to our Ordinary Form Mass, and I am sure some judge her for that). Some could question the reason why a person does that, which is what we all should do as Christians, but not judge without knowing the background. I also know some youth who are on the verge of not accepting the Ordinary Form as legitimate, or as a foul of Vatican II. I love the Extraordinary form, but I equally love a reverent Ordinary form Mass, too.

Maybe judge is a better word than rigidity, or in this case, they can go hand in hand… meaning that we are sometimes stuck in our own worlds that we cannot adapt to different practices in the faith that are totally legitimate and are part of the true faith. There are some crazy things that happen in some Masses that aren’t acceptable in practice, but I am not talking about those things here. And many who are in high school/college may put off this certain “I know what is right” thing… I know because I was at that point around that time.

I do believe you can be open minded about the faith and learning more (as we should), and still stay true to it as well.

Nice.

 

[twf]

Stop bashing the Holy Father.

Who in the posts above you bashed the Holy Father? Confessing confusion or a lack of understanding as to his message is not bashing. Perhaps you could help those posters out with your own reflection on the problem of rigidity among young Catholics and what exactly it means?

 

[JakeWI]

Good post.

Some of the most “liberal” of Catholics are the least tolerant. Intolerant of those who like the Latin Mass. Intolerant of those who believe in going to confession. Intolerant of those who oppose abortion politically. Intolerant of those who want to be chaste. Intolerant of priestly celibacy. Intolerant of an all-male priesthood. Intolerant of the Pope himself. Intolerant of those who believe marriage should be between a man and a woman.

Nobody among the “Trads” I know even remotely approaches the rigidity of some of those who pride themselves on being “in the spirit of VII”, though “totalitarian” is probably a better epithet for some.

Possibly the Holy Father was talking about those of whatever religious practice who are harsh and intolerant toward others, wrapped up in self-righteousness and pride.

This is true, as well. I know there is some big taboo that goes with the Extraordinary form. There are offenders on both ends, and it is truly unfortunate. My Parish Priest is going to be doing a presentation this summer on how the Ordinary Form and Extraordinary Form complement each other, where certain things come from, etc. There is becoming an interest in this, which I am glad about.

I would consider myself a fairly traditional Catholic in what I believe the Mass should be like, however, I DO know some younger than me (I am 28) who are almost anti-Ordinary Form and even got into a disagreement with a Priest who regularly does Extraordinary Form Masses because he believes both can be beautiful. I have seen it go both ways, with numerous people… so I know those extremes exist.

 

[abucs]

If you’re right, this communication / translation issue has been ongoing for a few years now. Calling out “rigid Catholics” (and “rigid” priests) has been a key often repeated theme of the Holy Father’s preaching.

Yes, I mean we have the parable of building our faith on firm foundations and not shifting sands.

Firm foundations are by definition, rigid foundations.

As well, St. Paul was rigid in his persecution of the Christians but then he was probably more rigid in his attempts to advocate for Christ and make amends.

Rigidness in itself is not good or bad but it depends what it is that is rigid.

Criticising people using the category of “rigid Christians” is a pejorative and it is unbecoming and unsuitable for someone so important as our Holy Father.

I hope it is the translation that is misleading but as you said, it has been that way for some time.

For the good of the Holy Father’s reputation, I would want this sorted out very soon.

 

[TMC]

Good post.

Some of the most “liberal” of Catholics are the least tolerant. Intolerant of those who like the Latin Mass. Intolerant of those who believe in going to confession. Intolerant of those who oppose abortion politically. Intolerant of those who want to be chaste. Intolerant of priestly celibacy. Intolerant of an all-male priesthood. Intolerant of the Pope himself. Intolerant of those who believe marriage should be between a man and a woman.

Nobody among the “Trads” I know even remotely approaches the rigidity of some of those who pride themselves on being “in the spirit of VII”, though “totalitarian” is probably a better epithet for some.

Possibly the Holy Father was talking about those of whatever religious practice who are harsh and intolerant toward others, wrapped up in self-righteousness and pride.

My bolding. I agree this is the point.

 

[Beautiful]

“They are the rigid with the double life. They show themselves as beautiful, honest, but when no one is looking, they do bad things,” he said.

A call to authenticity in Christ.
This call should apply to young, old and everyone in between.

 

[Beautiful]

I think the pope really needs to come out and clearly say what he thinks because at least the English translation is not making sense.

You cannot be rigid and have a double life. A double life negates the characteristic of rigidness.

If you are rigid with respect to something then you are not changing.

There should be more rigid Catholics. Rigidness in no way denotes being unmerciful and it is an incoherent insult to suggest it does.

Perhaps the English translation of this word is lacking.

After living through a period of time where the church was decimated in the west exactly because it lacked rigidness I rejoice that there are now young Catholics being rigid in the faith. If the older generation would have been more rigid in the faith we would not have participated in the abuse of children and could talk with more authority about such sin.

Pope Francis means hard hearted which is similar to rigid.
To be rigid or hard hearted means to be not truly yielding to Christ…hard hearted. Pope Francis is calling youth to an authentic life in Christ.

 

[St_Francis]

Pope Francis means hard hearted which is similar to rigid.
To be rigid or hard hearted means to be not truly yielding to Christ…hard hearted. Pope Francis is calling youth to an authentic life in Christ.

But what about the rest of us? I have been rigid too, and I didn’t even return to the Church until ai was in my mid-30s! I think he should call all of us to less consoriousness, not just the young!