Pope Francis meets with gay French ambassador nominee

[gilliam]

A source who serves in the Holy See diplomacy explained to CNA Apr. 21 that it should be well understood “why the Vatican delayed to give the approval to the appointment, but we can certainly assess that it was not for discrimination about his sexual orientation.”

catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-francis-meets-with-gay-french-ambassador-nominee-72369/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+catholicnewsagency%2Fdailynews+%28CNA+Daily+News%29&utm_term=daily+news

 

[Johann_du_Toit]

“Laurent Stefanini describes himself as both gay and a self-proclaimed devout Catholic, who regularly attends Mass”.

But the article doesn’t mention if he is celibate or if he is an active homosexual. If the latter, he should be precluded from being appointed as he wouldn’t fit the Church’s moral criteria.

 

[agnes_therese]

“Laurent Stefanini describes himself as both gay and a self-proclaimed devout Catholic, who regularly attends Mass”.

But the article doesn’t mention if he is celibate or if he is an active homosexual. If the latter, he should be precluded from being appointed as he wouldn’t fit the Church’s moral criteria.

Um, does the Vatican inquire into the sex lives of other ambassadors? Is there a questionnaire? Or do we not care about the sins of heterosexuals?

 

[McCall1981]

Um, does the Vatican inquire into the sex lives of other ambassadors? Is there a questionnaire? Or do we not care about the sins of heterosexuals?

Well, as the article says, “For example, an ambassador to the Holy See cannot be a divorced and civilly remarried person” so the answer to your question is yes, the Vatican “inquires” into everyone the same way, and holds everyone to the same moral standards, exactly as it should be.

 

[Neofight]

“Laurent Stefanini describes himself as both gay and a self-proclaimed devout Catholic, who regularly attends Mass”.

But the article doesn’t mention if he is celibate or if he is an active homosexual. If the latter, he should be precluded from being appointed as he wouldn’t fit the Church’s moral criteria.

Disclaimer: The following is not to condone homosexuality.

But, a couple of things come to mind:

1. Even if he is an active homosexual, he should be lauded for attending Mass (note he did not say he attends and receives the Eucharist)…because, right here at home, next to you at the communion rail is probably men and women who are practicing artificial contraception.
2. And, the “Church’s moral criteria”? Last time I checked the only common moral criteria shared by everyone in our church is the fact that they are fallen men and women, many of whom commit the same sins over and over again.

Peace and all good!

 

[TarkanAttila]

Of course, a marriage theoretically could be celibate.

But if it is there’s no sin involved, eh?

So asking if he is active or no could indeed be a valid question. …How to ask it, though?

 

[Brendan]

Um, does the Vatican inquire into the sex lives of other ambassadors? Is there a questionnaire? Or do we not care about the sins of heterosexuals?

It has rejected those who are divorced and ‘remarried’ ( another, previous French nominee)

And has accepted countless that are validly married.

In each of those cases, it went by what the person self proclaimed about themselves.

 

[Havard]

Of course, a marriage theoretically could be celibate.

But if it is there’s no sin involved, eh?

So asking if he is active or no could indeed be a valid question. …How to ask it, though?

I think you mean to say that a marriage could be sexless. Celibate means not married, you can’t have a not-married marriage.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

Um, does the Vatican inquire into the sex lives of other ambassadors? Is there a questionnaire? Or do we not care about the sins of heterosexuals?

I agree. They don’t enquire about the sex lives of married ambassadors to the Vatican, no need for that here. He is single, he is a practicing Catholic, everything else is between him and his confessor just as it is for married Catholics. I support his nomination.

 

[Seamus_L]

I’m very suspicious of someone who identifies themself as openly “gay”. If the man had a particular attraction that he kept under control and lived a life of celibacy, would there really be a need to proclaim it to the world ? Instead he identifies as “gay”.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

I support Pope Francis’ right to accept or decline any ambassador for any reason, or for no stated reason. He is a head of state.

But is there a source other than the comment in the article, that the Vatican sets moral standards for ambassadors from other nations? What about atheist ambassadors from the former USSR or Red China or North Korea? I’m honestly puzzled about how this works.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

I’m very suspicious of someone who identifies themself as openly “gay”. If the man had a particular attraction that he kept under control and lived a life of celibacy, would there really be a need to proclaim it to the world ? Instead he identifies as “gay”.

He doesn’t identify himself as ‘openly gay’. The author of the article does.

“Laurent Stefanini describes himself as both gay and a self-proclaimed devout Catholic, who regularly attends Mass.”

Would the author describe a single heterosexual nominee as ‘openly heterosexual’?

 

[Elizium23]

He doesn’t identify himself as ‘openly gay’. The author of the article does.

If one describes himself as gay to a reporter, one is, by definition, openly gay.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

If one describes himself as gay to a reporter, one is, by definition, openly gay.

He never identified to the reporter that he is ‘openly gay’. The only statement he gave confirmed he is “gay, single and a self-proclaimed devout Catholic, who regularly attends Mass.”

Laurent is fully aware what the statement being ‘openly gay’ infers. It infers that he has an active sex life.

Read the article again, the author inferred it. Laurent Stefanini never said ‘I am openly gay’.

We don’t question the sex lives of heterosexual single nominees or even married nominees to the Vatican why should we question his?

 

[Elizium23]

Laurent is fully aware what the statement being ‘openly gay’ infers. It infers that he has an active sex life.

Read the article again, the author inferred it. Laurent Stefanini never said ‘I am openly gay’.

“Infer” and “imply” are two different words which refer to different things. Please learn the difference. “openly gay” does not, to me, imply an active sex life. It seems to me perfectly possible that a chaste single man, or even a priest or a could openly identify as homosexual without necessarily having any contact with men.

How do you know what Stefanini is aware of, for a phrase you claim he has never uttered? Or are you just inferring things now too?

If it does mean actively homosexual, then how active do you have to be before you are “openly gay”? If I had sex once ten years ago, could I be “openly gay” now or is it stale? Is a man who has sex every week “openly gayer” than one who only has sex every six months?

“Openly gay” is the opposite of “closeted gay”. It simply means that you tell people willingly and publicly. I don’t see how that adjective could be stretched to cover different levels of sexual activity.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

“Infer” and “imply” are two different words which refer to different things. Please learn the difference. “openly gay” does not, to me, imply an active sex life. It seems to me perfectly possible that a chaste single man, or even a priest or a could openly identify as homosexual without necessarily having any contact with men.

If it does mean actively homosexual, then how active do you have to be before you are “openly gay”? If I had sex once ten years ago, could I be “openly gay” now or is it stale? Is a man who has sex every week “openly gayer” than one who only has sex every six months?

“Openly gay” is the opposite of “closeted gay”. It simply means that you tell people willingly and publicly. I don’t see how that adjective could be stretched to cover different levels of sexual activity.

No according to my gay friends being ‘openly gay’ means you have come out of the closet and are living your life as a gay person out in the open and all that entails including participating in gay sex.

 

[agnes_therese]

No according to my gay friends being ‘openly gay’ means you have come out of the closet and are living your life as a gay person out in the open and all that entails including participating in gay sex.

That may be their definition. That doesn’t make it universal.

 

[OraLabora]

I’ve read… I forgot where… that Mr. Stefanini is in fact very discreet about his personal life. He is unmarried, and a practicing Catholic. I don’t think we can infer anything about his sexual practices (or lack of same) from that, even if he self-describes himself as homosexual. Charity and the benefit of the doubt lead me to believe that he’s in a state of grace unless he explicitly says otherwise, and that he uses the Sacrament of Reconciliation like the rest of us for whatever sins he may fall into be they sexual or otherwise.

I therefore suspect that the reason for non-acceptance has nothing to do with being homosexual, but some other reason for which diplomacy requires discretion.

 

[Tigg]

The only statement he gave confirmed he is “gay, single and a self-proclaimed devout Catholic, who regularly attends Mass.”

WHY do we need to know if he is gay or not? It is none of our business.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

WHY do we need to know if he is gay or not? It is none of our business.

Exactly my point. His orientation and sex life or lack of sex life is between him and his confessor.

We don’t care about the sex lives of single heterosexual males who are Vatican ambassadors or even the married ones, why should we care about his?