Pope Francis names Washington Archbishop Wilton Gregory first African American cardinal

[Dracarys]

Bishop Gregory is said to have prayed for George Floyd who died while in the custody of police. That is all well and good, but I hope the good bishop also prayed for the victims of Mr. Floyd’s crimes. In one instance Floyd committed armed robbery and placed a handgun against the abdomen of a woman who was reportedly pregnant. Floyd has a long rap sheet of theft and drug crimes. Floyd, who is 6’7”, fought with police while they were trying to arrest him for yet another crime.
One point that I rarely see being suggested by so called “black leaders” is to recommend that people STOP FIGHTING WITH THE POLICE. Let them do their job, and if you are falsely arrested you can later sue for false imprisonment. I guarantee there will be a long line of lawyers who will take those cases. Does anyone think Bishop Gregory will put fourth this recommendation?

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Bishop Gregory is said to have prayed for George Floyd who died while in the custody of police. That is all well and good, but I hope the good bishop also prayed for the victims of Mr. Floyd’s crimes.

Why would you assume that he didn’t pray for them too?

In one instance Floyd committed armed robbery and placed a handgun against the abdomen of a woman who was reportedly pregnant.

That was 13 years ago, and he served his time and was, by all accounts, a reformed person.

Floyd, who is 6’7”, fought with police while they were trying to arrest him for yet another crime.

“Alleged” crime, please.

One point that I rarely see being suggested by so called “black leaders” is to recommend that people STOP FIGHTING WITH THE POLICE.

They do. And the parents especially, who have to give their children “the talk” about how they have to be twice as careful as a white kid.

Let them do their job…

It sounds like you are justifying killing someone who is not perfectly compliant. Are you?

and if you are falsely arrested you can later sue for false imprisonment.

That’s a joke. You can’t even get a jury to find against the police killing a black man. How do you expect to get them to find for false arrest? They system is not as fair as one might hope.

I guarantee there will be a long line of lawyers who will take those cases.

Not if there is no money in it for them.

Does anyone think Bishop Gregory will put fourth this recommendation?

I would not denigrate a bishop solely on the basis of what recommendation he did not make.

 

[Dracarys]

Why would you assume that he didn’t pray for them too?

I am asking if he did since he only mentioned in the article I read that he prayed for Floyd

That was 13 years ago, and he served his time and was, by all accounts, a reformed person.

What is your point? The people he robbed were victims and the same consideration should be given to them. Suporters of people who were allegedly harmed by police are often treated as martyrs and saints. Lets have some suport for victims of crime and the police who have a job to do by arresting offenders.

They do. And the parents especially, who have to give their children “the talk” about how they have to be twice as careful as a white kid.

Really? maybe they do, but I never hear it. The bishop has a pulpit so why not make the message loud and clear that fighting with or running from the police is never a good idea.

It sounds like you are justifying killing someone who is not perfectly compliant. Are you?

How can you possibly get that from what I said? The police have a job to do. In certain cases police must investigate and arrest suspects. If such a person runs from the police or fights a lawfull arrest the force continum requires police to lay hands on people. At that point one should comply.

That’s a joke. You can’t even get a jury to find against the police killing a black man. How do you expect to get them to find for false arrest? They system is not as fair as one might hope.

So what are you advocating? Anarchy? Do you want anyone being arrested to resist the police? Actually there are adjudicated cases of false arrest where the aarrested person prevails. Resisting the police and interfearing with their investigation can end in injury to the supect and/or the police. Is that what you want?

I would not denigrate a bishop solely on the basis of what recommendation he did not make.

I am not denigrating anyone. I am asking if the bishop will stand up for victims of crime and for law and order. If he has already done so please refer me to the quote. I also hope he has made this point as vehemently and frequently as he does to critisize.

 

[qui_est_ce]

What is your point? The people he robbed were victims and the same consideration should be given to them. Suporters of people who were allegedly harmed by police are often treated as martyrs and saints. Lets have some suport for victims of crime and the police who have a job to do by arresting offenders.

Exactly. My father was murdered many years ago. The passing of time did not make the crime any less and it sure didn’t bring him back. My children never got to meet their grandfather.

 

[Dracarys]

Exactly. My father was murdered many years ago. The passing of time did not make the crime and less and it sure didn’t bring him back. My children never got to meet their grandfather.

I am sincerely sorry for your loss. I lost my parents to illness, but when an innocent life is cut short by a murderer it is far worse. I got to slowly say goodbye to my mom and dad, but you probably did not get that clousure.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I am sincerely sorry for your loss. I lost my parents to illness, but when an innocent life is cut short by a murderer it is far worse. I got to slowly say goodbye to my mom and dad, but you probably did not get that clousure.

Thank you. It was a shock, but a slow goodbye can be awful too.

 

[Victoria33]

Sometimes in times of strife or in other difficult times, the Church will act to console. I don’t take that as to how they see things exactly but that they are in the role of peacemaker.

 

[InThePew]

People have pointed out that Pope Francis likes to make bishops from more obscure or less historically important dioceses into Cardinals, but it really just has to do with the bishops’ outlook and philosophies.

If you look at those Pope Francis has appointed (beyond the United States that is) you’ll see that this bears out his desire to reach out to the peripheries. Cardinals essentially have one job - to elect the next Pope; and so what Pope Francis is very obviously doing is ensuring that the composition of the next conclave is more representative of the universals Church through the creation of Cardinals from places like Rwanda, Brunei and Papua New Guinea as well as from places where Catholicism is a notable minority - like Stockholm and Karachi. At the same time, he’s still creating as cardinals bishops from significant dioceses (such as Madrid, Washington DC or Chicago) while also adhering (more or less) to JPII’s limit of 120 electors. So, the combination of these things means that some dioceses which were traditionally associated with a cardinals hat are no longer so (or are required to wait longer). As far as being based on political views goes, this isn’t really borne out if you look beyond the high profile creations - somehow I doubt the Pope (or his advisors) are aware of the political views of the Apostolic Vicar or Brunei (incidentally, a JPII appointment)!

 

[Anesti33]

It was my impression with Pope St. JPG and Benedict XVI’s early years that they elected bishops across the board, with varying theological and social positions. They didn’t appoint ‘yes men’ or try to foil the career advancement of people who might come out opposing them.

However, Pope Benedict XVI’s later years were marked by a shift and appointment of conservative bishops to important sees, as well as his cardinal creations. He seemed determined to cement a legacy for a particular breed of bishops, but those years were vanishingly short and then he resigned.

Pope Francis is continuing that custom of Benedict, with of course a completely different type of bias toward the types of bishops he elects. He gives preferential treatment to those who support his positions, and as he clearly explained in an early interview, for those conservative bishops such as +Chaput and +Olmsted, he just waits for their retirement and “lays them aside like old nails.”

The new cardinals from the peripheries are nearly too obscure for me to research, so I really don’t know their theological opinions or social stances. But perhaps it serves the Holy Father’s purposes well to have obscure and unknown cardinals from obscure parts of the world, because then he has fewer cardinals from well-known and important sees, which is just as advantageous.

 

[InThePew]

Pope Francis is continuing that custom of Benedict, with of course a completely different type of bias toward the types of bishops he elects. He gives preferential treatment to those who support his positions, and as he clearly explained in an early interview, for those conservative bishops such as +Chaput and +Olmsted, he just waits for their retirement and “lays them aside like old nails.”

The process of appointment of bishops is a lot less political than most realise. In part, this is because of the small pool of qualified candidates - especially for the largest and most significant dioceses. Certainly, under Benedict XVI, the Congregation for Bishops (or Evangelisation of Peoples as the case may be) was concerned to appoint what might be called “theologically sound” candidates in light of some problems amongst those appointed by JPII.

But perhaps it serves the Holy Father’s purposes well to have obscure and unknown cardinals from obscure parts of the world, because then he has fewer cardinals from well-known and important sees, which is just as advantageous.

Broadening membership of the Cardinals beyond the well-known and important sees allows for a wider perspective amongst the voices in the room so to speak since the well known and important sees obviously aren’t representative of the universal Church. Besides this, another of Pope Francis’ concerns has been addressing careerism in the Church - something which is also reflected in his choice of cardinals, since being a bishop (or cardinal for that matter) shouldn’t be seen as part of some sort of career plan (most priests I know like to joke that anyone who wants to be a bishop has automatically rules themselves out on the grounds of insanity).

Still, it is fair to say that Pope Francis is more creative (if you’ll pardon the pun) in his choice of cardinals. Benedict XVI was more predictable, sticking not just to the positions which typically associated with a cardinal’s hat, but also to the 120 limit, while JPII stuck to the typical positions while also adding a number of cardinals from new sees. He also ignored the 120 elector limit (at one point there were 135 electors) and also (on one occasion) the requirement that all cardinals be bishops.

Tbh I think the idea that Popes try to shape the college in such a way as to influence the election of their successor is misplaced because it assumes a group mentality but it also presumes that the electors don’t vote with a view to the needs of the Church but rather their own particular political views. The group mentality assumption in particular is easily debunked in light of the election of Pope Francis but also by the fact that most of the Cardinals don’t know each other all that well (if at all) and, particularly in light of Pope Francis’ creations, come from backgrounds that vary vastly.

 

[Glennon_P]

The group mentality assumption in particular is easily debunked in light of the election of Pope Francis

…and the fact that the Cardinals, largely appointed by Pius XII, elected John XXIII and Paul VI. And the cardinals who elected John Paul II were largely appointed by John XXIII and Paul VI.

 

[BigBoom]

I don’t know what everyone’s opinion is of Crisis Magazine, but they have a good article covering this:

Wilton Gregory Is the Deep Church - Crisis Magazine

 

[Dracarys]

I don’t know what everyone’s opinion is of Crisis Magazine, but they have a good article covering this:

Very interesting. Read the comments from people who actually met Bishop Gregory. I have never heard of Crisis magazine, but I’ll have to check them out. I think Pope John Paul II is crying in his grave.

 

[Feanor2]

I don’t know what everyone’s opinion is of Crisis Magazine, but they have a good article covering this:

Wilton Gregory Is the Deep Church

Crisis Magazine is not a good source for news on the Church. It is divisive to the point of disparaging the Pope and even the OF mass.

 

[billsherman]

Crisis Magazine is not a good source for news on the Church. It is divisive to the point of disparaging the Pope and even the OF mass.

And this thread is not a good reflection of Catholicism.

 

[Dracarys]

Crisis Magazine is not a good source for news on the Church. It is divisive to the point of disparaging the Pope and even the OF mass.

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut, but I like this article. I will be checking them out.

 

[Dracarys]

And this thread is not a good reflection of Catholicism.

It is if you have concerns about where Pope Francis is leading the Church.

 

[MikeInVA]

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut, but I like this article. I will be checking them out.

Crisis publishes opinion articles (that some people confuse with news). I get a daily email with links to a couple of articles. The articles generally are well written, and often from a noted scholar or priest.

 

[StudentMI]

And this thread is not a good reflection of Catholicism.

Because it doesn’t agree with your political opinions?

 

[billsherman]

Because it doesn’t agree with your political opinions?

I don’t have political opinions about the creation of Cardinals. That is far, far outside my area of competency. I suspect the same is true for every single other poster in this thread.