Pope Francis: Obstinate Christians are Rebels and Idolaters

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I wish he had been clearer on what he meant. He could have offered some examples.
Yes. Specific examples would have helped me at least. The first thing I learned was obedience to Church teaching. The Church, not my opinion, was my guide. Yes, I’m a sinner and did disobey but I would never tell the Church something like “do it this way because it’s always been done this way.” I love Pope Francis. This is confusing for me.

Ed
 
Wow, he really doesn’t like me does he? To him, I am a bad Catholic with a hard heart, living a “half-and-half life”, a sinner and idolater, even guilty of the sin of divination!

And all because I perfer the traditional symbolism of the Holy Thursday foot-washing and wish he hadn’t changed it. I like the way that it’s always been done.

but wow, I feel the mercy just oozing out of him.

Don’t you?
👍

The quantity of reported comments by the pope which come across as both chastising and incredibly vague has reached its upper limit.

It is not a good look, unfortunately.
 
It is very confusing. At worst it is a vague and passive aggressive attack on tradition and those who believe in the tradition of the Church. The best interpretation is Jackvk’s interpretation. But I have no idea what the pope is referring to.
 
It is very confusing. At worst it is a vague and passive aggressive attack on tradition and those who believe in the tradition of the Church. The best interpretation is Jackvk’s interpretation. But I have no idea what the pope is referring to.
On the flipside, he also authorized confessions heard by the SSPX for the Year of Mercy. I question the narrative that he’s salty towards tradition in principle.

(Dave Armstrong has an article on his blog titled, “Documentation:Pope Francis is pro-tradition, pro-orthodoxy, and against modernism”).
 
Many of the traditions of the Church started out as ways to be closer to Christ. They were initially done with intention. Now many do them because they’ve always done it, as have their parents and their parent’s parents.

Perhaps the Pope is trying to remind us that we need to be more involved with why we do something instead of how we do it. In reading the forum on foot washing, it seems many are getting hung up on who are included in the foot washing instead of remembering why Jesus washed the feet and why the Pope copies this behavior.

Intention, not tradition.
 
Guys, relax. This is the Pope. 🙂

If someone isn’t trying to discern the Lord’s will and is doing certain actions just because that’s what has always been done, that’s lazy. The Lord calls us to detachment and being open to the Holy Spirit. If something is keeping us in the way of reaching other people with Christ that something ought to change. 🙂

It’s about practical Christian living. There’s no need to read too much into it. And the Pope is Ignatian which tells us something. Get familiarized with Ignatian spirituality and you will become more familiar with the Pope. 🙂
 
The part I underlined has been the attitude I have seen from followers of, say, Michael Voris. They always have something sour to say against some remote, nebulous opponent. No self-conviction or anything; they just assume they’re worldview is self-evident, and anyone who disagrees with their inner circle is either a heretic or a dunce.
By putting words in the Holy Father’s mouth you risk engaging in the very allegations you make.
 
The problem - as several posters have pointed out - is knowing exactly who the Pope is targeting.

Does he mean those narrow-minded middle-class respectable Christians who make a contribution to an approved charity because that’s the done thing, and then tell a beggar who comes to their gate to be on his way before they call the police?

Or does he mean those Catholics who hold that the laws of God bind in all situations, and that remarried divorcees can ***never ***be given Communion, no matter how much they wish they could, until they have manifested effective repentance by rectifying their irregular situation, either by living as brother and sister or by divorce?

The root problem is that after 4 years pontificate we ***still ***don’t know which alternative Pope Francis would opt for. That in itself is not good news.
 
The problem - as several posters have pointed out - is knowing exactly who the Pope is targeting.

Does he mean those narrow-minded middle-class respectable Christians who make a contribution to an approved charity because that’s the done thing, and then tell a beggar who comes to their gate to be on his way before they call the police?

Or does he mean those Catholics who hold that the laws of God bind in all situations, and that remarried divorcees can ***never ***be given Communion, no matter how much they wish they could, until they have manifested effective repentance by rectifying their irregular situation, either by living as brother and sister or by divorce?

The root problem is that after 4 years pontificate we ***still ***don’t know which alternative Pope Francis would opt for. That in itself is not good news.
I think he is addressing both of those groups, but I don’t agree with how you characterize the second. I would say that he is addressing those Catholics that are convinced they know the mind of God and are supremely confident that they know how God would apply His laws in every situation, and based on that seek to reflexively impose their view of those laws on others instead of listening humbly for the guidance of the Spirit.
 
He’s been saying some very interesting stuff. But is it ex cathedra? No. He’s just havin’ a go at some people, that’s all it is. Whoever they are supposed to be.
 
I wish he had been clearer on what he meant. He could have offered some examples.
It occurs to me that perhaps Pope Francis is intentionally vague when he makes such statements, so that each of us will examine our own heart to see if we too are like the Pharisees: too attached to our own interpretation or way of living out the faith, but possibly missing a more important aspect. It can be likened to seeing the beam in our own eye before pointing out the speck in another’s. These statements are perhaps meant to make each of us uncomfortable so as to examine our own lives and motives. After all, a Christian with progressive views can be just as obstinate as one who holds more to tradition.
 
Michael Winters of the National Catholic Reporter’s take on this homily. I tend to agree that, viewed in context, it is at least partly in preparation for the Apostolic Exhortation on Marriage to come, possibly in March this year. I sincerely hope I am wrong.
It would be weird as the Pope said, “What has been said and what doesn’t change is what’s important; what I hear—from myself and my closed heart—more than the Word of the Lord.” when the Word of the Lord was “one man, one woman, until death.”

But I hear it’s unmerciful and un-Christlike to quote Christ.
 
It occurs to me that perhaps Pope Francis is intentionally vague when he makes such statements, so that each of us will examine our own heart to see if we too are like the Pharisees: too attached to our own interpretation or way of living out the faith, but possibly missing a more important aspect. It can be likened to seeing the beam in our own eye before pointing out the speck in another’s. These statements are perhaps meant to make each of us uncomfortable so as to examine our own lives and motives. After all, a Christian with progressive views can be just as obstinate as one who holds more to tradition.
You, multitude ( in #29) and others likely are correct as to his intention, but I wish and pray every day that he would stop it. Yes, being purposefully vague has some value, but it’s a two-edged sword because it gives ammunition to those militants who seek to change doctrine.

Socialists, pacifists, homosexuals, adulterers, abortion supporters and others refer to papal statements, Vatican II documents and even scripture as their rationalization for changing doctrine (" it’s just changing pastoral practice", as they call it) to the benefit of their cause. It’s everywhere: History channels on TV, news media, in books, Internet forums, informal chats with friends, politicians and, sadly, in the arguments of a few passionate but misguided clergy and Religious who use it as cover to cross the line into secular politics as support for their beliefs.

Pope Francis knows this, and has admitted his weakness for speaking off the cuff. Still, he does it. Is it to become all things to all people so that by all possible means he might save some? Does he believe he will save more than those led astray by the easy misuse of his ambiguity by militants?
 
Guys, relax. This is the Pope. 🙂

If someone isn’t trying to discern the Lord’s will and is doing certain actions just because that’s what has always been done, that’s lazy. The Lord calls us to detachment and being open to the Holy Spirit. If something is keeping us in the way of reaching other people with Christ that something ought to change. 🙂

It’s about practical Christian living. There’s no need to read too much into it. And the Pope is Ignatian which tells us something. Get familiarized with Ignatian spirituality and you will become more familiar with the Pope. 🙂
I thought the pope was Argentinian – now you’re telling me he’s Ignatian? Wow! I can’t even find it on the map.
 
I thought the pope was Argentinian – now you’re telling me he’s Ignatian? Wow! I can’t even find it on the map.
I think collegeathlete meant Igntion; a system for igniting a mixture of fuel (Church teaching) and air (modern Jesuit teaching).😉
 
I received my Catholic education from very serious, very religious Sisters and Priests long before the felt banner brigades took over. I’ll stick to what I was taught rather than the constantly changing opinion/instruction I witness today. When and if the Church officially declares the pre-Vatican II teachings and the Extraordinary Form of the Liturgy null and void and a sin to even consider I will decide which “version” of Catholicism I will follow, until then I don’t appreciate implications I am obstinately sinful regardless of who makes the implication.
 
Considering the state of the world, and with a wide-open view of Prophecy, is it not possible that our Holy Father is trying to attract as many people into the safety of the true Ark?

Let’s be realistic. Those of us who have studied and prayed about the faith for years, even decades, are not going anywhere (we are somewhat like the Apostles in the Bread of Life Discourse in the Gospel of John, chapter six). The Pope knows we are not going anywhere because we know and believe that the Catholic Church is the One True Church Christ started. So, is it possible that the Pope is relying on us to remain tethered to the Church while he goes fishing for more souls?

The Pope stresses mercy so many times–and according to St. Faustina we are living in the time of mercy, which will be followed by the Day of Justice. Is it possible the Pope feels the Day of Justice is not terribly far away and he wants to save as many souls as possible before that day arrives?

Another way to put all this: Shouldn’t we trust in the Holy Spirit?
 
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