Pope Francis: Reformation's 500th anniversary is 'privileged occasion' for living the faith [CWN]

[JimG]

I routinely watch “The Journey Home” program on EWTN. It is instructive to hear how the spiritual journey of people of many different Faith traditions or of none at all eventually led them home to the Catholic Church. That striking phrase from Pope Benedict XVI came to mind when thinking about this:

“This unity does not mean what could be called ecumenism of the return: that is, to deny and to reject one’s own faith history. Absolutely not!”

I wonder what those recent converts would make of the idea of “the ecumenism of return,” being rejected. Would it mean that they should have remained in their prior Faith traditions? Does it mean the Church should discourage those of other Christian traditions returning to the fullness of the Faith? Of all the stories I have heard, none of them rejected their prior faith as just a bad mistake; they treasured it and looked upon it as an important step in their spiritual journey. But I don’t recall any of them having approached the Catholic Faith through an ecumenical process. It makes me wonder as to the ultimate goal of ecumenism if it is not unity of Faith.

 

[collegeathlete]

But I don’t recall any of them having approached the Catholic Faith through an ecumenical process. It makes me wonder as to the ultimate goal of ecumenism if it is not unity of Faith.

This makes no sense. How is ecumenism not oriented toward being united in faith? And it is actually pretty hard to imagine how a recent convert would not be impacted by the ecumenical movement. The Decree on Ecumenism and Ut Unum Sint make it abundantly clear what the goals of ecumenism are. The former gives the shortest and easiest explanation at its very beginning, "This movement toward unity is called “ecumenical.”

As a convert I can tell you that without the ecumenical efforts of the past 50 years it’s possible I never would have bothered to take the Church seriously.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

If Luther was a Heretic and an excommunicate then, he is an heretic and excommunicate now.
Clarity leads to unity. Ambiguity leads to doubt, which leads to division. With all respect and love to His Holiness Pope Francis, i will humbly stand on the totality of the Faith and weigh all new developments by what Holy Mother Church has held as Truth throughout the ages.

No…judgments are subject to revision, thankfully. Which has happened on numerous occasions, also thankfully. And Pope Saint John Paul II was tremendous for this.

Thus what matters is the subsequent judgment, which displaces the previous determinations. And what is the determination of the Holy See today…which places in a very different reality from other eras.

Thanks be to God, we are in a very very different place than where we were in past centuries. Pope Saint John XXIII took us across the threshold to a new era and, after all these years, I am very excited for those who come after me in the work of the dialogue because they are set to go to a whole new level, building on God’s gift to the Church that was the ecumenical movement that was recognised – at last – by the Council Fathers at Vatican II as a divine imperative.

And most wonderful is that these theologians and historians of the next generation, those at the international level, fully know and appreciate what they will have the occasion to do, transformatively.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

I routinely watch “The Journey Home” program on EWTN. It is instructive to hear how the spiritual journey of people of many different Faith traditions or of none at all eventually led them home to the Catholic Church. That striking phrase from Pope Benedict XVI came to mind when thinking about this:

I wonder what those recent converts would make of the idea of “the ecumenism of return,” being rejected. Would it mean that they should have remained in their prior Faith traditions? Does it mean the Church should discourage those of other Christian traditions returning to the fullness of the Faith? Of all the stories I have heard, none of them rejected their prior faith as just a bad mistake; they treasured it and looked upon it as an important step in their spiritual journey. But I don’t recall any of them having approached the Catholic Faith through an ecumenical process. It makes me wonder as to the ultimate goal of ecumenism if it is not unity of Faith.

One has only to look at Anglicanorum coetibus. We welcome those part of the Anglican Communion, clergy and laity, into a state of full communion with Rome while welcoming with open arms – as the gift that it is to all of us – the patrimony that they bring with them as Anglicans.

We rejoice that now, for example, the prayers of Thomas Cranmer are part of the liturgy of the Catholic Church, as part of The Missal of Divine Worship, because we, too, thereby recognise in these prayers a gift for the Church universal.

Far from the old “ecumenism of the return,” we see how the Lord is very much at work outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church and we acknowledge and confess the Lord who works in and through them.

As the Council Fathers wrote:
*Moreover, some and even very many of the significant elements and endowments which together go to build up and give life to the Church itself, can exist outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church: the written word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, and visible elements too. All of these, which come from Christ and lead back to Christ, belong by right to the one Church of Christ.

The brethren divided from us also use many liturgical actions of the Christian religion. These most certainly can truly engender a life of grace in ways that vary according to the condition of each Church or Community. These liturgical actions must be regarded as capable of giving access to the community of salvation.

It follows that the separated Churches and Communities as such, though we believe them to be deficient in some respects, have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church.*
This has led to a complete renewal of our ecclesiology.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Father, I find your posts inspiring. I hope you stay with us. There are people here who appreciate how you represent the Church.

What a kind post. Thank you.

I am watching to see how those who manage the forum choose to proceed. If negative expressions against the Vicar of Christ and against the Bishops continue unabated, I would not want to be associated at all with any place where such behaviour is even merely tolerated.

 

[ringil]

One has only to look at Anglicanorum coetibus. We welcome those part of the Anglican Communion, clergy and laity, into a state of full communion with Rome while welcoming with open arms – as the gift that it is to all of us – the patrimony that they bring with them as Anglicans.

We rejoice that now, for example, the prayers of Thomas Cranmer are part of the liturgy of the Catholic Church, as part of The Missal of Divine Worship, because we, too, thereby recognise in these prayers a gift for the Church universal.

Far from the old “ecumenism of the return,” we see how the Lord is very much at work outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church and we acknowledge and confess the Lord who works in and through them.

As the Council Fathers wrote:
*Moreover, some and even very many of the significant elements and endowments which together go to build up and give life to the Church itself, can exist outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church: the written word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, and visible elements too. All of these, which come from Christ and lead back to Christ, belong by right to the one Church of Christ.

The brethren divided from us also use many liturgical actions of the Christian religion. These most certainly can truly engender a life of grace in ways that vary according to the condition of each Church or Community. These liturgical actions must be regarded as capable of giving access to the community of salvation.

It follows that the separated Churches and Communities as such, though we believe them to be deficient in some respects, have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation* which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church.
This has led to a complete renewal of our ecclesiology.

You have a way of making all of this stuff clear Father. Thanks!

 

[Pulvis]

No…judgments are subject to revision, thankfully. Which has happened on numerous occasions, also thankfully. And Pope Saint John Paul II was tremendous for this.

Thus what matters is the subsequent judgment, which displaces the previous determinations. And what is the determination of the Holy See today…which places in a very different reality from other eras.

Thanks be to God, we are in a very very different place than where we were in past centuries. Pope Saint John XXIII took us across the threshold to a new era and, after all these years, I am very excited for those who come after me in the work of the dialogue because they are set to go to a whole new level, building on God’s gift to the Church that was the ecumenical movement that was recognised – at last – by the Council Fathers at Vatican II as a divine imperative.

And most wonderful is that these theologians and historians of the next generation, those at the international level, fully know and appreciate what they will have the occasion to do, transformatively.

I still respectfully disagree. And thank you for your opinion on the Church. I now can understand the point from whence you base your arguments.

 

[EIF5A]

He (Pope Francis) also expressed hope that by the Holy Spirit’s action, “we will be able to find further convergence on points of doctrine and the moral teaching of the Church, and will be able to draw ever closer to full and visible unity.”

I know Lutherans (and Anglicans) are more “Catholic” than other Protestant denominations. What theological points do we differ in?

What hypothetically needs to happen for union with the Church?

 

[JimG]

---

One has only to look at Anglicanorum coetibus. We welcome those part of the Anglican Communion, clergy and laity, into a state of full communion with Rome while welcoming with open arms – as the gift that it is to all of us – the patrimony that they bring with them as Anglicans.

We rejoice that now, for example, the prayers of Thomas Cranmer are part of the liturgy of the Catholic Church, as part of The Missal of Divine Worship, because we, too, thereby recognise in these prayers a gift for the Church universal.

Far from the old “ecumenism of the return,” we see how the Lord is very much at work outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church and we acknowledge and confess the Lord who works in and through them.

As the Council Fathers wrote:
*Moreover, some and even very many of the significant elements and endowments which together go to build up and give life to the Church itself, can exist outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church: the written word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, and visible elements too. All of these, which come from Christ and lead back to Christ, belong by right to the one Church of Christ.

The brethren divided from us also use many liturgical actions of the Christian religion. These most certainly can truly engender a life of grace in ways that vary according to the condition of each Church or Community. These liturgical actions must be regarded as capable of giving access to the community of salvation.

It follows that the separated Churches and Communities as such, though we believe them to be deficient in some respects, have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation* which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church.
This has led to a complete renewal of our ecclesiology.

Thank you for this response. I especially appreciate the quote from the Council documents, particularly this:

“It follows that the separated Churches and Communities as such, though we believe them to be deficient in some respects, have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church.”

Indeed it was this same theme that appeared in many of the conversion stories featured on “The Journey Home.” The guests were often eloquent in giving thanks for the way in which their former faith communities had brought them into the Christian life and prepared the way for their full conversion into the Catholic Church. When I say that they were not part of an ‘ecumenical process’ I mean that in their personal journey the idea of ecumenism itself did not play a particular role. But they did end up entering the Catholic Church and being thankful for it. That is why I find the phrase “the ecumenism of return” as an idea to be rejected rather astonishing. Their faith journey led them to the Catholic Church. They wanted to return!

 

[abucs]

From : en.radiovaticana.va/news/2017/01/19/pope_luther%E2%80%99s_intention_was_to_renew_the_church,_not_divide/1286728

"Pope Francis on Thursday said that “the intention of Martin Luther five hundred years ago was to renew the Church, not divide her”.
Speaking to members of an Ecumenical Delegation from Finland who are in the Vatican to take part in the Week of Prayer for Christian Unity, the Pope recalled his visit to Sweden last October and said that the “gathering there gave us the courage and strength, in our Lord Jesus Christ, to look ahead to the ecumenical journey that we are called to walk together.”

Please find below the full text of Pope Francis’ address to the members of the Ecumenical Delegation from Finland:
Dear Brothers and Sisters,

I joyfully welcome all of you, members of the Ecumenical Delegation, who have come as pilgrims from Finland to Rome on the occasion of the feast of Saint Henrik.  I thank the Lutheran Bishop of Turku for his kind words.  For more than thirty years, it has been a fine custom for your pilgrimage to take place during the Week of Prayer for Christian Unity, which calls us to draw closer to one another anew through conversion.  True ecumenism is based on a shared conversion to Jesus Christ as our Lord and Redeemer.  If we draw close to him, we draw close also to one another.  During these days let us pray more fervently to the Holy Spirit so that we may experience this conversion which makes reconciliation possible.
On this path, we Catholics and Lutherans, from several countries, together with various communities sharing our ecumenical journey, reached a significant step when, on 31 October last, we gathered together in Lund, Sweden, to commemorate through common prayer the beginning of the Reformation.  This joint commemoration of the Reformation was important on both the human and theological-spiritual levels.  After fifty years of official ecumenical dialogue between Catholics and Lutherans, we have succeeded in clearly articulating points of view which today we agree on.  For this we are grateful.  At the same time we keep alive in our hearts sincere contrition for our faults.  In this spirit, we recalled in Lund that the intention of Martin Luther five hundred years ago was to renew the Church, not divide her.  The gathering there gave us the courage and strength, in our Lord Jesus Christ, to look ahead to the ecumenical journey that we are called to walk together.   
In preparing the common commemoration of the Reformation, Catholics and Lutherans noted with greater awareness that theological dialogue remains essential for reconciliation and that it is advanced through steadfast commitment.  Thus, in that communion of harmony which permits the Holy Spirit to act, we will be able to find further convergence on points of doctrine and the moral teaching of the Church, and will be able to draw ever closer to  full and visible unity.  I pray to the Lord that he may bestow his blessing on the Lutheran-Catholic Dialogue Commission in Finland, which is working diligently towards a common sacramental understanding of the Church, the Eucharist and ecclesial ministry.
Therefore 2017, the commemorative year of the Reformation, represents for Catholics and Lutherans a privileged occasion to live the faith more authentically, in order to rediscover the Gospel together, and to seek and witness to Christ with renewed vigour.  At the conclusion of the day of commemoration in Lund, and looking to the future, we drew inspiration from our common witness to faith before the world, when we committed ourselves to jointly assisting those who suffer, who are in need, and who face persecution and violence.  In doing so, as Christians we are no longer divided, but rather united on the journey towards full communion.
I am pleased to recall also that this year the Christians of Finland celebrate the centenary of the Finnish Ecumenical Council, which is an important instrument in promoting communion of faith and life among you.
Finally, in 2017 your homeland, Finland, will celebrate one hundred years as an independent State.  May this anniversary encourage all the Christians of your country to profess faith in the Lord Jesus Christ – as did Saint Henrik so zealously – offering a witness of faith to the world today and putting that faith into practice through concrete acts of service, fraternity and sharing. 
In the hope that your pilgrimage may contribute to further strengthening the good cooperation between Orthodox, Lutherans and Catholics in Finland and in the world, and that the common witness of faith, hope and love may bear abundant fruit through Saint Henrik’s intercession, I willingly invoke God’s grace and blessing upon you all."

Hi Pulvis, i am sure i agree with yourself to a large degree. I would just point out that Pope Francis said he was commemorating the Reformation, not celebrating it.

I am sure there are very few Catholics who are actually celebrating what happened in the 16th century and subsequent centuries thereafter as a result of the Reformation.

That being said i think the decision to issue a papal stamp of Luther is a step too far and does not help with the clarity with which you spoke about.

 

[RPRPsych]

I lurked around here before signing up with an account back in the days when Benedict XVI was the Pope, although I had recently been spending more time in this (news) area of the forum. But my forum activity has decreased recently largely due to the fact that in recent times there have been unusually polemical attitudes just in general, along with certain level of animosity towards the Pope. I mean this with all due respect to the posters who may indeed have good intentions, but if the Pope were still Benedict XVI and the exact same things were said and done, I highly doubt responses in threads like these would be so negative.

If this negativity doesn’t change soon I might never come back to CAF.

Or stay and kick against the pricks, as some of us do.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

---

Thank you for this response. I especially appreciate the quote from the Council documents, particularly this:

“It follows that the separated Churches and Communities as such, though we believe them to be deficient in some respects, have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church.”

Indeed it was this same theme that appeared in many of the conversion stories featured on “The Journey Home.” The guests were often eloquent in giving thanks for the way in which their former faith communities had brought them into the Christian life and prepared the way for their full conversion into the Catholic Church. When I say that they were not part of an ‘ecumenical process’ I mean that in their personal journey the idea of ecumenism itself did not play a particular role. But they did end up entering the Catholic Church and being thankful for it. That is why I find the phrase “the ecumenism of return” as an idea to be rejected rather astonishing. Their faith journey led them to the Catholic Church. They wanted to return!

Well, in all my years of priesthood, I have never received into full communion with the Catholic Church – or met anyone so received – who did not think there was something to be gained by being Catholic. There was some enrichment to themselves and their lives or else they would have stayed where they were, as non-Catholic Christians. On the other hand, however happy they were to be in communion with Peter’s successor, they never lost sight of all that they had from their own patrimony and the heritage that was properly theirs as Christians, preceding the moment when they became Catholic.

The concept of “the ecumenism of the return” was that you abjured being non-Catholic; you disavowed it and disowned it and you would be allowed to return to the Church. It is not formulated that way anymore precisely because we see the Lord is already at work in the lives of Christians in and through their faith communities, which are non-Catholic.

Pope Saint John Paul II explained this very well in Ut Unum Sint when he said, to pick out just one line
Again, the very expression separated brethren tends to be replaced today by expressions which more readily evoke the deep communion — linked to the baptismal character — which the Spirit fosters in spite of historical and canonical divisions. /…/ This broadening of vocabulary is indicative of a significant change in attitudes.
And this has to be understood: our vocabulary today is different because our theology has undergone significant evolution. That is one of many reasons why texts from the 16th through the 19th century are simply obsolete. They are using concepts and constructs that are no longer theologically appropriate. Theologians – and the Magisterium – have moved beyond them and they are no longer of service to us.

For the Council Fathers, who had all lived through World War II, there was the profound awareness of the non-Catholics who were, in fact, martyrs and otherwise living virtue to a heroic degree, as non-Catholics. They were given this grace by the Holy Spirit…as Lutherans and as other Reformed Christians.

And after five decades of the dialogue, the field continues to advance forward at the level of the Holy See.

 

[EIF5A]

Certain prayers mention banishment of heresy or things along those lines. Are we not to say them anymore since they are “obsolete” or replace with something like “unity of all Christians”?

What about the denial of the Immaculate Conception or perpetual virginity or Mary’s motherhood of humanity?

Do we as Catholics have to do extra penance to make up for Protestants who propagate such things out of ignorance?

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Fortunately, the mindset today is decidedly different than it was in decades and centuries past; there is need for everyone to be converted…on all sides of the dialogue, “us” as well as “them”…for “we” are all part of the Mystical Body of Christ.

Pope Benedict expressed this beautifully in his second pilgrimage as Bishop of Rome to his homeland, in a moment when the preparations for the joint observance of the 5th centenary of the Reformation were already well underway. In 2011, in Erfurt, he met the Lutherans in a specially chosen place, a place he wanted to visit and to honor, where he spoke of our shared faith:

As I begin to speak, I would like first of all to say how deeply grateful I am that we are able to come together. I am particularly grateful to you, my dear brother, Pastor Schneider, for receiving me and for the words with which you have welcomed me here among you. You have opened your heart and openly expressed a truly shared faith, a longing for unity. And we are also glad, for I believe that this session, our meetings here, are also being celebrated as the feast of our shared faith. Moreover, I would like to express my thanks to all of you for your gift in making it possible for us to speak with one another as Christians here, in this historic place.

As the Bishop of Rome, it is deeply moving for me to be meeting you here in the ancient Augustinian convent in Erfurt. As we have just heard, this is where Luther studied theology. This is where he celebrated his first Mass. Against his father’s wishes, he did not continue the study of Law, but instead he studied theology and set off on the path towards priesthood in the Order of Saint Augustine. And on this path, he was not simply concerned with this or that. What constantly exercised him was the question of God, the deep passion and driving force of his whole life’s journey. “How do I receive the grace of God?”: this question struck him in the heart and lay at the foundation of all his theological searching and inner struggle /…/ “How do I receive the grace of God?” The fact that this question was the driving force of his whole life never ceases to make a deep impression on me.

Pope Benedict went on to affirm the great insights that were the gift of the Holy Spirit to the assembled Council Fathers at Vatican II and which they articulate in Unitatis Redintegratio. The Ecumenical Movement is, they declared, a divine imperative.

Could this just be an attempt to talk our way past the urgent problems that are still waiting for practical progress, for concrete results? I would respond by saying that the first and most important thing for ecumenism is that we keep in view just how much we have in common, not losing sight of it amid the pressure towards secularization – everything that makes us Christian in the first place and continues to be our gift and our task. It was the error of the Reformation period that for the most part we could only see what divided us and we failed to grasp existentially what we have in common in terms of the great deposit of sacred Scripture and the early Christian creeds. For me, the great ecumenical step forward of recent decades is that we have become aware of all this common ground, that we acknowledge it as we pray and sing together, as we make our joint commitment to the Christian ethos in our dealings with the world, as we bear common witness to the God of Jesus Christ in this world as our inalienable, shared foundation.

He concluded reminding Catholics and Lutherans, both, that we are to be gift to each other as we follow Christ

This is a key ecumenical task in which we have to help one another: developing a deeper and livelier faith. It is not strategy that saves us and saves Christianity, but faith – thought out and lived afresh; through such faith, Christ enters this world of ours, and with him, the living God. As the martyrs of the Nazi era brought us together and prompted that great initial ecumenical opening, so today, faith that is lived from deep within amid a secularized world is the most powerful ecumenical force that brings us together, guiding us towards unity in the one Lord. And we pray to him, asking that we may learn to live the faith anew, and that in this way we may then become one.

I remember all of this in light of a letter to the Catholic bishops of the world he had written some years before. He had occasion to reflect back on past failures which had provoked the fracture of the Church.

Looking back over the past, to the divisions which in the course of the centuries have rent the Body of Christ, one continually has the impression that, at critical moments when divisions were coming about, not enough was done by the Church’s leaders to maintain or regain reconciliation and unity. One has the impression that omissions on the part of the Church have had their share of blame for the fact that these divisions were able to harden. This glance at the past imposes an obligation on us today

 

[Convert_in_99]

Father, I find your posts inspiring. I hope you stay with us. There are people here who appreciate how you represent the Church.