Pope Francis: Sorting the church into ‘right vs. left, progressive vs. traditionalist’ betrays its true nature

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I wonder if Pope Francis was aware of pending news reports in relation to Cardinal Pell before he made his Curia talk.


“It’s also worth noting that the transfers accelerated during the period Cardinal Pell was facing investigations in Australia and peaked when he was side-lined from financial control of the Vatican while facing charges and trial in Australia,” she said.
 
yankeesouth said:
I wonder if Pope Francis was aware of pending news reports in relation to Cardinal Pell before he made his Curia talk.

https://www.ncregister.com/blog/vatican-australia-transfer

“It’s also worth noting that the transfers accelerated during the period Cardinal Pell was facing investigations in Australia and peaked when he was side-lined from financial control of the Vatican while facing charges and trial in Australia,” she said.
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These revelations only compound the charges of hypocrisy and deceit that were happening under cover of the Curia. Why do you think that would change Pope Francis’ condemnations?
 
StudentMI said:
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Motherwit:
Lest we forget that pride, rigidity, judgmentalness and greed are the death of the soul, Pope Francis like Jesus has spoken with Scriptural warning about them for all our sakes.
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As I said, gaslighting.
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Read Traditionalists blogs. Sometimes the shoe fits.

Why this angry edge to some segments of Traditionalism. Ever read Father Z or Father Rippenger (SP?)

Cant people just be attached to the latin mass without all the baggage?
 
SanAndreas said:
'The tragic story of this failed pontificate advances with a pressing succession of twists and turns. Not a day passes: from the most exalted throne the Supreme pontiff proceeds to dismantle the see of Peter, using and abusing its supreme authority, not to confess but to deny; not to confirm but to mislead; not to unite but to devide; not to build but to demolish.‘ Abs. Carlo Maria Vigano, April 2020.
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See, here’s an example.
 
Feanor2 said:
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StudentMI:
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Motherwit:
Lest we forget that pride, rigidity, judgmentalness and greed are the death of the soul, Pope Francis like Jesus has spoken with Scriptural warning about them for all our sakes.
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As I said, gaslighting.
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Read Traditionalists blogs. Sometimes the shoe fits.

Why this angry edge to some segments of Traditionalism. Ever read Father Z or Father Rippenger (SP?)

Cant people just be attached to the latin mass without all the baggage?
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Yes, I’ve tried to point out to people how dangerous it is to be like that based on Jesus’ Scripture message. He literally condemns people who fall into those sins to a fiery end. Even as a small child I would shiver during those gospel readings at Mass. There’s no doubt Jesus meant what He said about people who act like that.

And yet it doesn’t seem to bother people at all despite Scripture. Perhaps that is the real crux of ‘rigidity’. It refuses. Refuses, to acknowledge it as a sin. Perhaps rigidity is addictive? People just can’t be afraid of hell or perhaps they don’t really believe in hell, to be able to just proudly behave like that?
 
Motherwit said:
Jesus wasn’t ‘playing God’. He is God.
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Yeah, and you’re not. But you feel comfortable criticizing traditionalists with threats of hellfire for following their conscience. Why do you think some come off as so angry? I’ve seen this type of thing in person.
 
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StudentMI said:
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Motherwit:
Jesus wasn’t ‘playing God’. He is God.
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Yeah, and you’re not. But you feel comfortable criticizing traditionalists with threats of hellfire for following your conscience. Why do you think some come off as so angry? I’ve seen this type of thing in person.
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I’m not condemning anyone. I’m just pointing to Scripture to show how dangerous these particular sins are. Pope Francis is doing just that. Rigidity is something that people must flee and repent of for the sake of their souls.
 
Motherwit said:
I’m not condemning anyone. I’m just pointing to Scripture to show how dangerous these particular sins are. Pope Francis is doing just that. Rigidity is something that people must flee and repent of for the sake of their souls.
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Uh huh. Your last sentence kind of contradicts your first.
 
StudentMI said:
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Motherwit:
I’m not condemning anyone. I’m just pointing to Scripture to show how dangerous these particular sins are. Pope Francis is doing just that. Rigidity is something that people must flee and repent of for the sake of their souls.
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Uh huh. Your last sentence kind of contradicts your first.
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Fraternal correction is a merciful duty.
 
I know there are some problems of theology and doctrine among elements on I guess we’ll call it liberal side of the spectrum I don’t think that liberal Catholics even think about Latin mass goers and traditional practices. The church militant and remnant guys seem obsessed with the OF mass, complaints about the Pope, and dubias.

The left doesn’t even think of the right while the right is obsessed with the left
 
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I know a few pretty liberal Catholics and they don’t even know who Burke and Schneider are much less even what a dubia is
 
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A look at America magazine and the National Catholic Reporter over the last 10 years or so would be an eye opener. Quite a few ‘anti’ traditional articles and comments.

NCR: The Latin Mass becomes a cult of toxic tradition. . .

Latin Mass decision gave rise to new divisiveness. . .

Francis criticizes traditionalist Catholics who safeguard the ashes of the past. . .

Head covering is thinly veiled patriarchy. . .

Chapel veils? You’ve got to be kidding . . .

And back in August 2019 when Australia had ‘upheld ‘ the guilty verdict for Cardinal Pell this charming editorial: Those who dismiss Pell verdict ignore integrity of legal process” (yep, we’re sure finding out more about that lately). .

Another editorial: Cardinal Burke is a living symbol of a failed vision of church. . .(my personal ‘BAH” both for a small c ‘church’ and for the insistence of being ‘Tarzan’, I.e., ‘me Catholic, me Church” speak. . .)

And the list goes on!!!
 
Feanor2 said:
The left doesn’t even think of the right while the right is obsessed with the left
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What left are you interacting with? Look at the examples stpurl gave. Look around you and look on some leftist websites.
 
Like I said the people I know don’t even know what a dubia is.

And we have traditionalists quoting 15th C papal bulls in defense of the death penalty

It 2 different worlds
 
stpurl said:
A look at America magazine and the National Catholic Reporter over the last 10 years or so would be an eye opener. Quite a few ‘anti’ traditional articles and comments.

NCR: The Latin Mass becomes a cult of toxic tradition. . .

Latin Mass decision gave rise to new divisiveness. . .

Francis criticizes traditionalist Catholics who safeguard the ashes of the past. . .

Head covering is thinly veiled patriarchy. . .

Chapel veils? You’ve got to be kidding . . .

And back in August 2019 when Australia had ‘upheld ‘ the guilty verdict for Cardinal Pell this charming editorial: Those who dismiss Pell verdict ignore integrity of legal process” (yep, we’re sure finding out more about that lately). .

Another editorial: Cardinal Burke is a living symbol of a failed vision of church. . .(my personal ‘BAH” both for a small c ‘church’ and for the insistence of being ‘Tarzan’, I.e., ‘me Catholic, me Church” speak. . .)

And the list goes on!!!
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You are talking about sites and publications that circulate among theologians, scholars, ideologues. It’s stuff that doesn’t filter down to ordinary Catholics. The majority of ordinary people sitting in pews don’t know anything about dubia’s etc as Feanor2 said. On the other hand, many diocese have problems with traditionalist groups. That’s the case all over the world. The frustrating thing is that there is a place for those inclined to follow the old ways, but without having to toss out Vatican II and the new ways.
 
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Hmmm. And here’s the thing, most of us have a fairly limited circle of acquaintances to have these discussions with. Yet most blogs etc have dozens or hundreds of articles about these issues, with hundreds of comments each.

So what you’re saying is because you have a friend or two who is liberal but doesn’t care about ‘dubia’, that’s what most Catholics really ARE, and all the articles and posts which represent the (name removed by moderator)ut of thousands of people really ‘aren’t.
 
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