Pope Francis surprised by misunderstanding of his words on family

[Darryl1958]

Not really, no. Because the Pope would’ve told her to either practice NFP (which isn’t nearly as hard as you seem to think it is) or (zomg earthshattering thing here) not have sex.

So your stance that NFP leave her “open to death” is incorrect. Except, of course, that life itself leaves us open to death.

That’s right.
She can just shut down from having sex, and then she can be sure.

Other than that, it is the pope that was criticizing her for being reckless, not me. I am just trying to make sense of what he was saying.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

That is just echoing what the pope told her, something about leaving her other seven kids orphans.

Just to make sure I understand you.

You think the Pope gave this woman permission to use ABC because NFP is not accurate enough?

 

[SWolf]

Thank you for making my case. The strongly traditional St John XXIII, who wanted to open windows only to let much-needed sunlight enter the Church (especially in Europe), would have been the very first to agree with Paul VI’s remark concerning the chaos rampaging through the post-concilar Church: “From some fissure the smoke of Satan has entered the temple of God.”

Cardinal Noe, the former papal Master of Ceremonies under Paul VI, said the Pope made that remark in reference to " priests, bishops and cardinals …badly celebrating Holy Mass through an erroneous interpretation and application of the Second Vatican Council."

After VCII, during the anti-Council reign of “The Spirit of Vatican Council Two”, dissidents were able to easily misinterpret the all-important, Holy Spirit-influenced documents of VCII. Enter all the unauthorized, catastrophic changes to our liturgy, music, architecture and education. That was possible because, like some U.S. statutes, VCII documents were written in the less than clear language of compromise so that many interpretations would be possible. See, for example, catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=22904.

Also see catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=23061.

In short, good Pope Francis must be informed, and soon, how his less than clear, off the cuff remarks are vulnerable to anti-Catholic, damaging misinterpretations. If less than clear documents of the Church itself are capable of nefarious interpretation, how much more so the off the cuff remarks of the Pope?

If the recent controversies have taught us anything, it’s that ambiguity is a tool of the devil.

 

[Justin_Swanton]

Just testing.

 

[Darryl1958]

Just to make sure I understand you.

You think the Pope gave this woman permission to use ABC because NFP is not accurate enough?

I didn’t say that, and I am sure that the pope didn’t say that either.

Where she might go, after taking the pope’s words to heart, is ambiguous.

We can only note that the majorityof Catholics in the West use ABC to the same extent as everybody else.

 

[KSU]

…ambiguity is a tool of the devil.

Amen. And few know the truth of that saying better than Pope Francis: “He [the Devil] presents things as if they were good, but his intention is destruction." catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-francis-satan-seduces-by-disguising-evil-as-good-85265/

That’s why the topic of this thread is so baffling; why should the Pope be surprised at all concerning what happens during his interviews? Especially after his own admission years ago:
“Interviews are not my forte,” then-Cardinal Bergoglio once remarked, and for that reason he seldom sat down to speak on the record with reporters. When two journalists sought a formal interview, he advised them to publish excerpts from his sermons and essays instead. (A Call to Serve: Pope Francis and the Catholic Future; Crossroad, von Kempis/Lawler, 2013). And this: "During one more informal exchange with reporters, on his flight out to Sri Lanka, Pope Francis confessed to another personal weakness: ‘You know, I have a shortcoming: a healthy dose of recklessness’.” catholicculture.org/commentary/otn.cfm?id=1072

Yes, Holy Father, we know.

 

[KSU]

If the recent controversies have taught us anything, it’s that ambiguity is a tool of the devil.

Amen. And few know the truth of that saying better than Pope Francis: “He [the Devil] presents things as if they were good, but his intention is destruction." catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-francis-satan-seduces-by-disguising-evil-as-good-85265/

That’s why the topic of this thread is so baffling; why should the Pope be surprised at all concerning what happens during his interviews? Especially after his own admission years ago:
“Interviews are not my forte,” then-Cardinal Bergoglio once remarked, and for that reason he seldom sat down to speak on the record with reporters. When two journalists sought a formal interview, he advised them to publish excerpts from his sermons and essays instead. (A Call to Serve: Pope Francis and the Catholic Future; Crossroad, von Kempis/Lawler, 2013).

And this: "During one more informal exchange with reporters, on his flight out to Sri Lanka, Pope Francis confessed to another personal weakness: ‘You know, I have a shortcoming: a healthy dose of recklessness’.” catholicculture.org/commentary/otn.cfm?id=1072

Yes, Holy Father, we know.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I didn’t say that, and I am sure that the pope didn’t say that either.

Where she might go, after taking the pope’s words to heart, is ambiguous.

We can only note that the majorityof Catholics in the West use ABC to the same extent as everybody else.

You said specifically that NFP leaves her open to death. How so? NFP correctly practiced is quite effective. The Pope was encouraging her to use it. You think the Pope was encouraging her to die? I think just the opposite. The pope used as an example one who would have grave/serious reason to use NFP. The lady in question was not using NFP… Are you confused or am I?

 

[babochka]

be vs. breed? Hmmmm. Maybe the Pope should just smile and wave and stop giving interviews until he can be quoted correctly!

 

[edwest2]

I’m not a religious leader but things posted by my company by its CEO are often twisted, misinterpreted and even turned into “we don’t believe a word you say.” The Pope, on the other hand, is not a CEO but is watched intently by those who wish to damage the Church. Very intently. I’m sure writing a letter to the Vatican will reach the Pope if anyone wishes to bring up an appropriate suggestion. I understand he is open to that.

God bless Pope Francis.

Ed

 

[LongingSoul]

If the recent controversies have taught us anything, it’s that ambiguity is a tool of the devil.

Jesus also had some pretty frightening words for those who were attributing the work of the Spirit to ‘demons’. I would hesitate with huge caution before going that road.

 

[robertmidwest]

And publicly attacking a woman’s choice of having an eighth child was very imprudent.

I don’t think he was “attacking” her. That is being a little thin skinned.

And yes some one needed to tell this woman she was acting selfishly. All seven of her births were C-section.

 

[LongingSoul]

I don’t think he was “attacking” her. That is being a little thin skinned.

And yes some one needed to tell this woman she was acting selfishly. All seven of her births were C-section.

Anecdotes are a usual way of giving a concrete example of these hidden ideologies. There were some significant markers in his anecdote… the most significant was the womens comment that “she trusts in God” as a way of deferring responsibility for producing endless children. The other was that she was relying fully on modern medicine to preserve her life and the life of each child, without a sense of natural caution. The reality is that without medical care, she most likely will die and leave a whole lot of orphaned children.

The Pope is trying to articulate that attitude that is evident in some people that having as many children as the body can produce is to be super Catholic and to plan a family using natural periods of abstinence is nothing more than contraception. It’s just a wrong ideology and it seems quite hard to kill it. It’s like a super bug.

 

[Darryl1958]

You said specifically that NFP leaves her open to death. How so? NFP correctly practiced is quite effective. The Pope was encouraging her to use it. You think the Pope was encouraging her to die? I think just the opposite. The pope used as an example one who would have grave/serious reason to use NFP. The lady in question was not using NFP… Are you confused or am I?

Because she is pregnant with an eighth baby, which the pope itself criticized as opening the other seven up to the real possibility of being orphans.
I am assuming that she is a good Catholic,who is using NFP rather than ABC.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Because she is pregnant with an eighth baby, which the pope itself criticized as opening the other seven up to the real possibility of being orphans.
I am assuming that she is a good Catholic,who is using NFP rather than ABC.

“Does she want to leave the seven orphans?” he asked, declaring the choice to have so many children in a row “an irresponsibility” and calling on Catholic ministry to teach “responsible parenthood.”

…

“I know so many, many licit ways that have helped this,” he told reporters. “God gives you methods to be responsible.”

No, she was pregnant with an 8th while having 7 C sections. It is not that she was having 8 children and then the Pope did talk about NFP specifically…

 

[SWolf]

I don’t think he was “attacking” her. That is being a little thin skinned.

And yes some one needed to tell this woman she was acting selfishly. All seven of her births were C-section.

No they didn’t. There is no hard and fast number with c sections. How about celebrating her openness to life and sacrifice to have that many kids like the popes of the past did. People keep going on about Francis knowing more about her medical condition. More likely than not it’s garbage, and on the off chance he did, what use is it chastising a woman who is already pregnant,

He said himself he chastised her, then told a bastion of reporters on an airplane how he told her she was tempting God. How is that not a verbal attack? If my wife was having her eighth and someone told her she was tempting God, then verbalized it to the whole world, I would be inclined to break his jaw(though not the pontiff, then I would simply pray for our Church).

 

[SWolf]

Jesus also had some pretty frightening words for those who were attributing the work of the Spirit to ‘demons’. I would hesitate with huge caution before going that road.

What “work of the spirit” are you referring to?

 

[Darryl1958]

No they didn’t. There is no hard and fast number with c sections. How about celebrating her openness to life and sacrifice to have that many kids like the popes of the past did. People keep going on about Francis knowing more about her medical condition. More likely than not it’s garbage, and on the off chance he did, what use is it chastising a woman who is already pregnant,

He said himself he chastised her, then told a bastion of reporters on an airplane how he told her she was tempting God. How is that not a verbal attack? If my wife was having her eighth and someone told her she was tempting God, then verbalized it to the whole world, I would be inclined to break his jaw(though not the pontiff, then I would simply pray for our Church).

Lol.

I think that the pontiff could relate. He feels the same about anyone insulting his mother.

 

[LongingSoul]

What “work of the spirit” are you referring to?

Matthew 12. The Pharisees didn’t like what Jesus was saying so they attribute His work among people to demons. I myself would hesitate to attribute the Popes work to the devil simply because what he is saying as Pope, doesn’t fit with my standards.

Maybe I’ve misinterpreted you though. What did you mean by “If the recent controversies have taught us anything, it’s that ambiguity is a tool of the devil.”

It seems to be a little… ambiguous.

 

[SWolf]

Matthew 12. The Pharisees didn’t like what Jesus was saying so they attribute His work among people to demons. I myself would hesitate to attribute the Popes work to the devil simply because what he is saying as Pope, doesn’t fit with my standards.

Maybe I’ve misinterpreted you though. What did you mean by “If the recent controversies have taught us anything, it’s that ambiguity is a tool of the devil.”

It seems to be a little… ambiguous.

It was a response to KSU’s post, where he noted the ambiguities in the VII docs opened the door to widespread discord and heterodoxy in the Church.

He stated many of Francis’ statements have the same effect.

Note the fact that ambiguous statements and docs are used to spread evil is not necessarily a condemnation of the speaker or writer.