Pope Francis: The Church needs more female theologians

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Xeyed818 said:
because women were never credited for there knowledge and wisdom,<<
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What nookes and crannies are you speaking of?

As I said in an earlier post I’m just discovering Julian of Norwich, and I’d like to hear of more female spiritual teachers within our church.

Have to google the strawberries comment! But I do think the pope deeply speaking when he referred to women shedding light on the mysteries of Christ.

Thanks.
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Xeyed818 said:
It might be best to ‘up the limit’ from 30 to however many women the Pope would like to see included. Not sure how the male theologians feel about being ‘replaced’ by a female theologian. 😉

Pamela
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I don’t think it would be about replacing anyone (although many will most likely think of it in that way) But adding to what is already there. 👍
 
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simpleas said:
What nookes and crannies are you speaking of?

As I said in an earlier post I’m just discovering Julian of Norwich, and I’d like to hear of more female spiritual teachers within our church.

Have to google the strawberries comment! But I do think the pope deeply speaking when he referred to women shedding light on the mysteries of Christ.

Thanks.
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You should absolutely read the writings of St Gertrude the great, also st Veronica Giuliani, another barely known saint who has amazing writings
 
So how will more female theologians bring more men (back) into the Church?
 
simpleas said:
I don’t think it would be about replacing anyone (although many will most likely think of it in that way) But adding to what is already there. 👍
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Would probably depend on how it was done - through agreement or insistence. (“A mind convinced against its will; is of the same opinion still.”) Perhaps the Insight that began to bring this about in 2004 has been shared with others involved, so allowed cooperation.

It’s kind of unsettling, to me, to have ‘female intuition/genius’ suddenly high-lighted - where, once upon a time, such a thing (I’m assuming it’s the ‘same thing’) got women burned at the stake for the charge of witchcraft. Surely, I’m missing some key consideration.

I also once pondered a quote that said (paraphrased) …although women can make use of logic, they are rarely…inventors. Another quote called the female intelligence a matter of ‘parroting’ (but it also said we were quite good at it, and innovative in application 🙂 ).

To date, my working theory (gleaned from the writings of men) to understand why women have been such an enigma (even to myself), is this:

Men have pure Reason and a mixed heart (mixed heart with good and wickedness beyond all measure) - so they reject most feelings as suspect, concentrating on Reason. (Which can cause ‘heartless logic’, perhaps.)

Women have only the mixed heart. My Reason is ‘second-hand’ in that it is provided by men for intake - not of my own ability to interact with Reason her/itself. I can apply the learning of men and so discipline my heart…but I don’t have ‘direct access’, so to speak.

It was in applying the Principles of AA (‘mind tools’) that I began to see just how justified my ex-husband’s exasperation with my former brand of ‘thinking’ (emoting) truly was. 😉 It’s an evolving theory through experience, as I try to figure out why being born female has been such a … strange trip. In a very basic (general!) premise, it’s as if men need women for procreation, but women need the Mind of men to keep drowning in an emotional swamp. Eve was cut off from ‘access’ and got a polluted heart as punishment, but Adam only had to live with the polluted heart he got from eating the apple?

Anyway, all that to say, Simpleas, that reading the writings of female theologians may not be so straightforward.

Are women about to be Pardoned for their ‘Gaffe in the Garden’ - 6,000 years ago? Perhaps it’s best not to get our hopes up, eh? I just don’t see any downside to letting us in on the reason behind the unprecedented changes. 🤷

Just thoughts along the Way,

Best to All,

Pamela

Another 1st:

Friday, July 11, 2014

First time in the history of the Catholic Church - a woman appointed rector of a Pontifical University

The Vatican has nominated Franciscan Sr. Mary Melone as head of the Pontifical University Antonianum.

She was the first woman to obtain a permanent position as a professor at the Faculty of Theology of the Pontifical University Antonianum, the Roman university run by the Order of Friars Minor; she was the first woman to be appointed a dean, which is equivalent to the position of department head and now that Jorge Mario Bergoglio is Pope, she is the first woman to become a rector of a pontifical university in the Eternal City. The Vatican congregation for Catholic Education – headed by cardinal Zenon Grocholewski for the period 2014-2017 - has nominated Franciscan Sr. Mary Melone, an expert on St. Anthony of Padua, to lead the pontifical university.
 
The Church needs more good theologians.

Women in particular do not have any insights into “certain unexplored and profound aspects of the mystery of Christ” that are not also available to men.
 
MtnDwellar said:
The Church needs more good theologians.

Women in particular do not have any insights into “certain unexplored and profound aspects of the mystery of Christ” that are not also available to men.
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Even if the Pope forgot to leave ‘wiggle room’ in his statements, the fact remains that the unprecedented ‘insertion’ of women at this level must have some significant motivation behind it.

Since this topic is now ‘running in the background’ of my mind as I read in CAF, others thoughts are gathering. The following began to unfold when I participated a recent (other) thread.

Reason seems to be a very great help and necessary Gift to Mankind when it comes to science. Whether it’s creating skyscrapers or medicine or conduits for water distribution. (It was easy, for me, to concede that the typical female mind could not have built the world we live in - when it was put to me that way.)

However, I’m beginning to notice that Reason may create more chaos than answers when it comes to theology; almost as if, as odd as it sounds, Reason, alone, isn’t the ‘right tool for the job’ - or at least it is insufficient to for Full Understanding.

Is Wisdom the ‘holy marriage’ of Reason and Holy Spirit? Is Reason, alone, simply not capable of finding the way out of the theological labyrinth? Does Reason keep the souls of men so beguiled with the creativity possible through Reason that they fail to see the ‘fatal flaw’?

GK Chesterton said, “You can only find Truth with Logic, if you have already found Truth without it.”
As for the ‘gathering of female theologians’…the only string I’ve found to pull is the connection of the ‘female attribute’ of Intuition. In Greek mythology, intuition is Hecate’s domain.
"The Greek goddess Hecate is the quintessential example of the qualities of the “right-brained” intuitive.
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The right brain, with its intuitive power, receives inspiration and it envisions what could be and what should be. It serves to illuminate and to instruct and provide direction for the logical left brain."
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Which, methinks, would take us back to the Eleusinian Mysteries. 🙂

🍿

Best to All,

Pamela
 
Without of course changing any teaching, doctrine, or dogma, this Pope, like none other in my lifetime, has such an embracing, welcoming tone. I can’t say I remember Pope John XXIII’s reign. But certainly I would say since. Even as a guy, I know women have so much more they can offer the Catholic Church. God bless this bishop of Rome and keep him in good health to lead the Catholic Church for many many yrs to come.
 
Xeyed818 said:
Even if the Pope forgot to leave ‘wiggle room’ in his statements, the fact remains that the unprecedented ‘insertion’ of women at this level must have some significant motivation behind it.

Since this topic is now ‘running in the background’ of my mind as I read in CAF, others thoughts are gathering. The following began to unfold when I participated a recent (other) thread.

Reason seems to be a very great help and necessary Gift to Mankind when it comes to science. Whether it’s creating skyscrapers or medicine or conduits for water distribution. (It was easy, for me, to concede that the typical female mind could not have built the world we live in - when it was put to me that way.)

However, I’m beginning to notice that Reason may create more chaos than answers when it comes to theology; almost as if, as odd as it sounds, Reason, alone, isn’t the ‘right tool for the job’ - or at least it is insufficient to for Full Understanding.

Is Wisdom the ‘holy marriage’ of Reason and Holy Spirit? Is Reason, alone, simply not capable of finding the way out of the theological labyrinth? Does Reason keep the souls of men so beguiled with the creativity possible through Reason that they fail to see the ‘fatal flaw’?

GK Chesterton said, “You can only find Truth with Logic, if you have already found Truth without it.”
As for the ‘gathering of female theologians’…the only string I’ve found to pull is the connection of the ‘female attribute’ of Intuition. In Greek mythology, intuition is Hecate’s domain.

Which, methinks, would take us back to the Eleusinian Mysteries. 🙂

🍿

Best to All,

Pamela
Click to expand...
Women have made many valuable contributions to society it is just men don’t care. Grace Hopper for example invented the compiler and without it we would not have computers as we know it today. Rosalind Franklin’s research played a pivotal role in the discovery of the shape of DNA, but of course she was given no credit. Ada Lovelace was the first computer programmer and developed the algorithm. Hedy Lamarr (yes, the movie star) pioneered techniques that have been vital to wireless communication since WWII, also they were utilized in weapons against the Nazis. Just in the 20th century there are dozens of documented cases where women have had their discoveries taken by others or where credit only went to their male partners.
 
Xeyed818 said:
Would probably depend on how it was done - through agreement or insistence. (“A mind convinced against its will; is of the same opinion still.”) Perhaps the Insight that began to bring this about in 2004 has been shared with others involved, so allowed cooperation.

It’s kind of unsettling, to me, to have ‘female intuition/genius’ suddenly high-lighted - where, once upon a time, such a thing (I’m assuming it’s the ‘same thing’) got women burned at the stake for the charge of witchcraft. Surely, I’m missing some key consideration.

I also once pondered a quote that said (paraphrased) …although women can make use of logic, they are rarely…inventors. Another quote called the female intelligence a matter of ‘parroting’ (but it also said we were quite good at it, and innovative in application 🙂 ).

To date, my working theory (gleaned from the writings of men) to understand why women have been such an enigma (even to myself), is this:

Men have pure Reason and a mixed heart (mixed heart with good and wickedness beyond all measure) - so they reject most feelings as suspect, concentrating on Reason. (Which can cause ‘heartless logic’, perhaps.)

Women have only the mixed heart. My Reason is ‘second-hand’ in that it is provided by men for intake - not of my own ability to interact with Reason her/itself. I can apply the learning of men and so discipline my heart…but I don’t have ‘direct access’, so to speak.

It was in applying the Principles of AA (‘mind tools’) that I began to see just how justified my ex-husband’s exasperation with my former brand of ‘thinking’ (emoting) truly was. 😉 It’s an evolving theory through experience, as I try to figure out why being born female has been such a … strange trip. In a very basic (general!) premise, it’s as if men need women for procreation, but women need the Mind of men to keep drowning in an emotional swamp. Eve was cut off from ‘access’ and got a polluted heart as punishment, but Adam only had to live with the polluted heart he got from eating the apple?

Anyway, all that to say, Simpleas, that reading the writings of female theologians may not be so straightforward.

Are women about to be Pardoned for their ‘Gaffe in the Garden’ - 6,000 years ago? Perhaps it’s best not to get our hopes up, eh? I just don’t see any downside to letting us in on the reason behind the unprecedented changes. 🤷

Just thoughts along the Way,

Best to All,

Pamela

Another 1st:

Friday, July 11, 2014

First time in the history of the Catholic Church - a woman appointed rector of a Pontifical University

The Vatican has nominated Franciscan Sr. Mary Melone as head of the Pontifical University Antonianum.

She was the first woman to obtain a permanent position as a professor at the Faculty of Theology of the Pontifical University Antonianum, the Roman university run by the Order of Friars Minor; she was the first woman to be appointed a dean, which is equivalent to the position of department head and now that Jorge Mario Bergoglio is Pope, she is the first woman to become a rector of a pontifical university in the Eternal City. The Vatican congregation for Catholic Education – headed by cardinal Zenon Grocholewski for the period 2014-2017 - has nominated Franciscan Sr. Mary Melone, an expert on St. Anthony of Padua, to lead the pontifical university.
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Thanks Xeyed818.

Sounds like you have given much thought to this subject, I’m only beginning!

I did think about the fact that women writers from a few centuries ago would have been influenced by mostly male teachers, but I would think their own writings come from their own experience of God and the world around them, and especially from their soul.

From the back cover of Julian of Norwich - Revelations of Divine Love. :

‘Just because I am a women, must I therefore believe that I must not tell you about the goodness of God, when I saw at the same time both his goodness, and his wish that it should be known.’

1373 is a long way back, but I think it will be an interesting read by a women, who lived in a veru different time from me, but we may still be experiencing the similar struggles to a degree.
 
Joie_de_Vivre said:
Women have made many valuable contributions to society it is just men don’t care. Grace Hopper for example invented the compiler and without it we would not have computers as we know it today. Rosalind Franklin’s research played a pivotal role in the discovery of the shape of DNA, but of course she was given no credit. Ada Lovelace was the first computer programmer and developed the algorithm. Hedy Lamarr (yes, the movie star) pioneered techniques that have been vital to wireless communication since WWII, also they were utilized in weapons against the Nazis. Just in the 20th century there are dozens of documented cases where women have had their discoveries taken by others or where credit only went to their male partners.
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I think there have been many inventions/discoveries by women, but we don’t look them up! Maybe men got the credit because they were the inheriters of land money etc so they just had that previlige, women didn’t until a certain time in history and in different cultures.
 
Xeyed818 said:
Even if the Pope forgot to leave ‘wiggle room’ in his statements, the fact remains that the unprecedented ‘insertion’ of women at this level must have some significant motivation behind it.

Since this topic is now ‘running in the background’ of my mind as I read in CAF, others thoughts are gathering. The following began to unfold when I participated a recent (other) thread.

Reason seems to be a very great help and necessary Gift to Mankind when it comes to science. Whether it’s creating skyscrapers or medicine or conduits for water distribution. (It was easy, for me, to concede that the typical female mind could not have built the world we live in - when it was put to me that way.)

However, I’m beginning to notice that Reason may create more chaos than answers when it comes to theology; almost as if, as odd as it sounds, Reason, alone, isn’t the ‘right tool for the job’ - or at least it is insufficient to for Full Understanding.

Is Wisdom the ‘holy marriage’ of Reason and Holy Spirit? Is Reason, alone, simply not capable of finding the way out of the theological labyrinth? Does Reason keep the souls of men so beguiled with the creativity possible through Reason that they fail to see the ‘fatal flaw’?

GK Chesterton said, “You can only find Truth with Logic, if you have already found Truth without it.”
As for the ‘gathering of female theologians’…the only string I’ve found to pull is the connection of the ‘female attribute’ of Intuition. In Greek mythology, intuition is Hecate’s domain.

Which, methinks, would take us back to the Eleusinian Mysteries. 🙂

🍿

Best to All,

Pamela
Click to expand...
The Eleusinian Mysteries was interesting! I wonder how some ancient practise had priestess’ maybe it was to do with balance, male and female, rather than just male worship or something.
 
Joie_de_Vivre said:
Women have made many valuable contributions to society it is just men don’t care. Grace Hopper for example invented the compiler and without it we would not have computers as we know it today. Rosalind Franklin’s research played a pivotal role in the discovery of the shape of DNA, but of course she was given no credit. Ada Lovelace was the first computer programmer and developed the algorithm. Hedy Lamarr (yes, the movie star) pioneered techniques that have been vital to wireless communication since WWII, also they were utilized in weapons against the Nazis. Just in the 20th century there are dozens of documented cases where women have had their discoveries taken by others or where credit only went to their male partners.
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Surely this cannot be possible. Because, as we’ve been reassured numerous times here, men and women are simply different. That is, men can think logically, women “think” emotionally. :rolleyes:
 
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