Pope Francis to world leaders "open your doors to migrants"

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You can see it as me lumping people in together, as if to cast blame, rather than seeing that we’re All in this together, and should be taking Responsibility, if you wish, but that’s not what I’m doing
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Back atcha:)
You can see me as engaging in uncharitable rhetoric if you wish, but that is not what I am doing.
America as a whole, often turns a blind eye to the problems within it’s own border, and blames minorities and people who have less of a voice,
instead of taking responsibility for, and solving the problems. Too often trying to legislate and legalize against things that no free country should. Too often with loud angry voices that appear to be “in charge” and “in control” because of animalistic tendencies towards dominance that are part of being human, until challenged and overcome, allow Reason and Intellect to rule, rather than emotion.
We’d have plenty of jail space for the Real criminals, if we Were to open our borders, if we set the non-violent ones free.
Okay.
I am kind of getting bored and non-interested at this point.
Thanks anyway.
 
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Back atcha:)
You can see me as engaging in uncharitable rhetoric if you wish, but that is not what I am doing.

Okay.
I am kind of getting bored and non-interested at this point.
Thanks anyway.
Lumping all the refugees who would prefer to live in peace, as many, if not most of the people we’re descended from, who live in the U.S. have, as “rapacious, your rapists, your marauding masses…” ~is~ actual uncharitable rhetoric such as one might see on the news, or comments on the news… so there some difference, but no worries if you don’t wish to discuss it. I doubt we’ll see eye to eye on these things, regardless.

Peace =)
 
I wonder how many Catholic follow what they preach?..
I do not understand how any of the questions relate to the first. If the attempt is to accuse people of hypocrisy, I will remind you that you are not the judge of what is the appropriate amount of charity for others. Most of your questions are absurd. No one is “preaching” these as a course of action.

What you ask of people is the opposite of how Jesus told us to give alms. I for one will never answer these types of questions. It is better to follow Christ than be baited by others.
 
Mammon means more than just money. It also means so-called gay “marriage”, wanting to feel and look good in front of secular friends, abortion, believing in false charges of racism and discrimination and other personal selfishness.
I have never seen this broad definition in any commentary on Scripture, and I think I would have. Everything I have read says it is material wealth, which certainly fits the context of Scripture. Some dynamic translations even translate the word to “money”, as the root word is “riches”.
 
Our borders are open to immigrants,just sign the guest book…enter legally
I like your imagery. I assume you mean more than just signing but some way to identify, check and monitor all immigrants. It has always been my opinion that a more open immigration policy to all without criminal history would do much more for security than any fence.
 
That ^ as an excellent description of how schisms have been created in the Church. Martin Luther had some valid points, which the Church addressed, but he had some that weren’t, so off he went, leaning into his own knowledge.(Proverbs 3:5) You’re also following in the very footsteps of Calvin, since the Prosperity Theology is based on similar ideas.
No, schism involves rebellion against the Church and tearing apart Catholic communion. It is not caused by simply disagreeing with opinions held by other Catholics which are not binding Church doctrine.
I’m quite sure you can dig through the Bible and pull out lines that fit your feelings so that you have the “confidence” to win" any debate, rationalizing and justifying your feelings, that the world is the way you want to see it, rather than accept the world the way it is.
Everyone uses passages of scripture to justify their views. The saints do it. Popes and bishops do it. Those who support welcoming all migrants do it.
The Bible is a “tool” for learning about God and God’s Will for us on Earth, and everlasting life with Him, after, not a “tool” for “debate” to pick nits out of context to use as sound doctrine. The simple fact is that our bodies are Temporary. Any one of us could die as easily today, in a car crash or some other accident, as tomorrow, or naturally, in a bed at 100+ years old, and living as a Catholic, while being doctrinal incorrect, isn’t the safest road to take. What we have and what we are, belong to God, and much of what we have, we also must Work for. It’s not merely handed to us “because god or faith.”
Catholic saints and theologians and apologists throughout history have used scripture to justify their views and to debate. And they quoted scripture passages without reference to the context. St. Peter and St. Paul did this. Jesus, the Word of God, did it.

What does the fact that are bodies are temporary have to do with this? Are bodies will also be resurrected and exist for eternity.
You puled out some scripture to back up your claim in favor of Prosperity Theology.
No, I wasn’t speaking in favor of prosperity theology. I said that God makes people rich or poor, which is what scripture clearly says, and from that I concluded that economic equality is not his will.
Have you read all of James 1?
Yes. I have read the whole letter, and most of the Bible.
9 Believers in humble circumstances ought to take pride in their high position.
10 But the rich should take pride in their humiliation—since they will pass away like a wild flower.
11 For the sun rises with scorching heat and withers the plant; its blossom falls and its beauty is destroyed. In the same way, the rich will fade away even while they go about their business."
The lowly, sick and poor in the Material world, have High positions in God’s eyes. The Spirit is what makes a difference. Not the empty, soulless, “material” world that too many people see as “Real” rather than a temporary, fleeting, situation that we happen to be in.
What you have comes from God, true enough, since Everything does, including our souls. What you Do with “Matter” while you’re here, is what matters, not how much of it you have, while you’re here.
I agree. But since you believe that the poor have a high position in God’s eyes and that Spirit is what makes the difference and not the material world or how much we have, why do you think that economic disparity is bad? That is practically a materialist view of society. Its how marxists and socialists think. Even people who believe in capitalism and those who promote the ideal of prosperity think that economic disparity is bad, insofar as they disapprove of poverty, even where people are not suffering because of it, and they think that everyone should be prosperous. Middle-class people think that everyone should be middle-class like they are.
 
No, schism involves rebellion against the Church and tearing apart Catholic communion. It is not caused by simply disagreeing with opinions held by other Catholics which are not binding Church doctrine.
That’s how it starts. You don’t need to be lead by the Church or it’s previously held positions, because you know better.
Everyone uses passages of scripture to justify their views. The saints do it. Popes and bishops do it. Those who support welcoming all migrants do it.
Catholic saints and theologians and apologists throughout history have used scripture to justify their views and to debate. And they quoted scripture passages without reference to the context. St. Peter and St. Paul did this. Jesus, the Word of God, did it.
What does the fact that are bodies are temporary have to do with this? Are bodies will also be resurrected and exist for eternity.
No, I wasn’t speaking in favor of prosperity theology. I said that God makes people rich or poor, which is what scripture clearly says, and from that I concluded that economic equality is not his will.
Yes. I have read the whole letter, and most of the Bible.
I agree. But since you believe that the poor have a high position in God’s eyes and that Spirit is what makes the difference and not the material world or how much we have, why do you think that economic disparity is bad? That is practically a materialist view of society. Its how marxists and socialists think. Even people who believe in capitalism and those who promote the ideal of prosperity think that economic disparity is bad, insofar as they disapprove of poverty, even where people are not suffering because of it, and they think that everyone should be prosperous. Middle-class people think that everyone should be middle-class like they are.
Because it causes unnecessary suffering, that Christ told us to be the remedy for, not justify it’s continued existence with by reading our own feelings into the Bible. It goes against the very Word of God, in Christ, and everything he spoke against. You’re justifying the starvation of Children all over the world, along with slave wages, if not outright slavery, for the sake of your wallet, claiming it’s God’s Will.

Even Atheists know better than this, that wealth should come from, and most often Does without interference of the absurdly wealthy and powerful, from ones own hard work and effort. I’m quite sure that’s well stated in the Bible, as well. God doesn’t magically manage the world and it’s people, to fit His Will; We Choose, or Not, by our Own will.

And not all who claim to speak for Christ, will live eternally as you describe.

You brought up Christ as an Excuse to argue against Christ. If you’re going to continue arguing in circles, you really should try this sort of argument in the Apologetics forum, or even Ask an Apologist, or at least call yourself something other than Catholic if you’re simply going to circumvent Catholic Teaching with specious logic of your own design.

I might suggest the Baptists, as they’re much more concerned with Worldly affairs than Spiritual ones, or Atheism if you’re just going to pretend God isn’t real enough to care what people do with what they have while on Earth, and think everyone just gets a free pass through the gates.
 
They’re already tearing down fences, damaging farmers crops and threatening peoples livelihoods in Greece. RT has video. The chaos and instablity of the Middle East is coming to Europe.
 
They’re already tearing down fences, damaging farmers crops and threatening peoples livelihoods in Greece. RT has video. The chaos and instability of the Middle East is coming to Europe.
Which means Now is the time to do something about it in an Organized, Caring, Christ like manner, before it spreads everywhere, or turns into a a chaotic mess that “leaders” will pretend they didn’t see coming, saying “How could we know? These people just went Crazy for “no reason”!”

There were Plenty of reasons, and there was Plenty of time to act. People just chose Not to.
 
^ That’s how they can then justify the use of martial law, and murder, to contain the “rampaging mobs” of desperate, starving People who Need food, water, and safety that were Taken from them, due Mostly to the Interference and rapaciousness of lazy American, and Western CEO’s, Bankers, Politicians, et al who argue endlessly about Their personal wants, over the Dire Needs of the rest of the worlds population.

And Americans will ~defend~ that sort of behavior, taking it Personally, as if They are the high powered CEO’s and the politicians they elect, rather than count themselves among the ones Abused by their greed.

Rapacious: aggressively greedy or grasping.

Ezekiel 16:49-50
49 “‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.

There’s the proper definition of that word.

And you can put it in Proper context by understanding this:

*Selfishness is putting the Wants of yourself, over the Needs of others.

Self Respect is putting the Needs of Yourself, over the Wants of others.*

I’m not saying give up everything You need, or We need, as a nation, and let others walk all over us or use us, as We’re being used already. That’s a twisted form of argument that those in Power over Us use, to justify what They do.

Victims Often live in denial, for Years, before they wake up and start challenging themselves and whoever, or whatever it is, that hurting them and keeping them in blind obedience and submissive repose, the other “powers that be” whether it’s a Parent screaming at their child over a glass of spilled milk, a boss that threatens even a Legal immigrant worker with deportation if they refuse to work long hours, for less pay, or a voter that votes against themselves, simply because they keep falling for the same lies and gas-lighting that their parents fell for, and their parents before them.

The Cycle of Abuse exists at All levels of society.

Do people really feel Represented by politicians that will vote Themselves raises, ~every single time~ and vote Decreases for Veterans and for social programs that are barely keeping Workers fed, but with too little else to have any sort of Hope that they’re going to be able to rise above their circumstances with “hard work.”?

Once upon a time, it seemed that way. That folks were Able to start from the bottom and work their way up, whether it was from a mail room to the top floor offices, or as a dishwasher, to cook, to restaurant owner, or paper boy to whatever dreams they had of saving up to start their own businesses, future rock stars starting from garage bands, etc.

It’s not that way now, and rather than looking at the Fruits, they listen to the Hearsay. Angry, Twisted, Rhetoric that says poor people are poor “because God” or their own lack of effort. That’s a purely Animal view of the Human Person, Worse than Atheism, in that it denies Any good nature of Humanity, blaming others for the way they see themselves, from the Top down.

Put yourselves in ~their~ shoes for a moment. Too often people act like that can’t happen in the U.S. because we’re safe. We have all this wealth and abundance, and people know better, or whatever other arguments Americans use to look down on the “ignorant heathens” that have had everything the knew taken from them in war after justified war and military occupation with the claim that they were in need of Freedom and Democracy, or wars against Citizens, justified for Revenge against their Leaders.

Would any of ~you~ just sit there and not do or say anything against foreign occupation of American soil? Alien invasion movies would suggest otherwise. So why continue to pretend they aren’t doing the ~same things~ that Americans would do, in the reverse situation?

Less than 100 people! Own more “wealth” than they bottom half of the entire population of the world, combined. Probably even more unbalanced, now. This isn’t even the world that will be. It’s a Crucible. It’s a thresher to separate the Wheat from the Chaff.

Don’t act like we can’t do something, because there’s “not enough money.” Money is a Fiction. People are Real.
 
Matthew 25:31-45
The Sheep and the Goats
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

The Word of the Lord.

Kyrie Eleison
 
"88. Attention must be given also to another matter that is closely connected with the foregoing. Just as the unity of human society cannot be founded on an opposition of classes, so also the right ordering of economic life cannot be left to a free competition of forces. For from this source, as from a poisoned spring, have originated and spread all the errors of individualist economic teaching. Destroying through forgetfulness or ignorance the social and moral character of economic life, it held that economic life must be considered and treated as altogether free from and independent of public authority, because in the market, i.e., in the free struggle of competitors, it would have a principle of self direction which governs it much more perfectly than would the intervention of any created intellect. But free competition, while justified and certainly useful provided it is kept within certain limits, clearly cannot direct economic life – a truth which the outcome of the application in practice of the tenets of this evil individualistic spirit has more than sufficiently demonstrated. Therefore, it is most necessary that economic life be again subjected to and governed by a true and effective directing principle. This function is one that the economic dictatorship which has recently displaced free competition can still less perform, since it is a headstrong power and a violent energy that, to benefit people, needs to be strongly curbed and wisely ruled. But it cannot curb and rule itself. Loftier and nobler principles – social justice and social charity – must, therefore, be sought whereby this dictatorship may be governed firmly and fully. Hence, the institutions themselves of peoples and, particularly those of all social life, ought to be penetrated with this justice, and it is most necessary that it be truly effective, that is, establish a juridical and social order which will, as it were, give form and shape to all economic life. Social charity, moreover, ought to be as the soul of this order, an order which public authority ought to be ever ready effectively to protect and defend. It will be able to do this the more easily as it rids itself of those burdens which, as We have stated above, are not properly its own. "

papalencyclicals.net/Pius11/P11QUADR.HTM
 
The saints do it. Popes and bishops do it. Those who support welcoming all migrants do it.

Catholic saints and theologians and apologists throughout history have used scripture to justify their views and to debate. And they quoted scripture passages without reference to the context. St. Peter and St. Paul did this. Jesus, the Word of God, did it.
This type of quoting though is only illustrative, it is not evidence. Proof-texting out of context is no more than an illustration. It is not evidence of any sort. The way Lynx quoted above, an whole discourse, or using a scripture in a way the context provides is solid evidence.
Catholics who use snippets of Scriptures to form their own view will drift away from the true teacher, which is the Church.

Again, illustration does not need context. Evidence does. “Though shall not kill” can be used rightly as an* illustration *to show the value of life, or wrongly as evidence that extreme pacifism is moral imperative.
 
They’re already tearing down fences, damaging farmers crops and threatening peoples livelihoods in Greece. RT has video. The chaos and instablity of the Middle East is coming to Europe.
On the one hand, Europe is a continent of democracies, where the weight of decisions, even bad ones, falls on the heads of the people.

On the other hand, one wonders how much of a say the people of Europe really have had in these decisions? Are the hard decisions all in the hands of bureaucrats, and appointed transnational appointees, or is this what the people really wanted?

Either way, inertia is never an option in world history. The moment that Europe stopped exerting its values against its borders, those on the other side start exerting theirs upon Europe. Europe is the next Iraq.

The only peace that Islam has had to offer for the past fifteen hundred years is the peace that comes through submission to the will of their overlords, and for non-Muslims to accepting the humiliation of diminished status.

This never used to be what the leaders of Christendom and Catholicism have advocated, but maybe enough people are embarrassed by Christian history where they are ready to give dhimmitude another chance?
 
Europe today reminds me a lot about the Biblical principle of kindness to strangers as exemplified by Lot (if you will pardon the pun).😉

The biblical principle of being kind to strangers and for God’s people to remember their time as mistreated strangers and aliens in Egypt serves as a guide for a Christian immigration policy. Hebrew sacred Law developed with that principle in mind.

This kindness to strangers had its precedence in Abraham and the way that he opened his home up to the three men (Trinity) who happened upon his house. ‘Welcome the stranger as the stranger may well prove to be an angel’ is the principle illustrated by the story of Abraham and the three strangers he welcomed into his home.

Then the three men visited Lot in the den of depravity that was known as Sddom. Lot was so welcoming that he even offered his daughters to be subject to the rapes that the Sodomites had in store for the strangers who entered into their gates.

That is Europe today, offering its daughters up to be raped, all for the kindness that we have been Biblically instructed to offer up to the stranger in our midst.

Who is the father of our faith then?

Is it Father Abraham who is to guide us, or Father Lot?

There is a lesson of discernment in those biblical passages somewhere, I think.
 
There is a lesson of discernment in those biblical passages somewhere, I think.
We don’t need to examine scripture for discernment. The Holy Father has been quite clear in that we should welcome the stranger in general, and the refugee in particular.
 
We don’t need to examine scripture for discernment. The Holy Father has been quite clear in that we should welcome the stranger in general, and the refugee in particular.
Scripture is also quite clear, just as the Holy Father is.

The question remains, are we the children of Abraham, or children of Lot on how we are to be welcoming of the stranger?
And what about the Pope? Is Father Abraham his example, or Father Lot?
I am not aware he has addressed that kind of detail.

I do not believe that the Bible belongs as an ornament in the book shelf. Evidently though, some Catholics abhor the idea that people are still reading it for themselves, and thinking for themselves.

Or rather, some Catholics would prefer us to believe that they have the pope in their back pocket, and for anyone to disagree with their own egregiously bad policy would be to disagree with the Holy Father Himself.
 
Is it Father Abraham who is to guide us, or Father Lot?
Jesus. He was quite clear on the subject that we will be judged by how we treat strangers. It is what he* taught*, as opposed to this analogy with Lot with is just an analogy.
 
Not welcoming strangers is an inaccurate analysis of the situation. Hungarian Catholic Bishop Bishop Laszlo Kiss-Rigo has called it an Islamic invasion. He’s seen it first hand, I’ll take his opinion.
 
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