Pope Francis urges UN conference to ‘act without delay’ on climate change

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I’m with the agronomists at Texas A&M who say that if the grasslands in the U.S. were managed optimally, they would eat all the CO2 produced in the U.S. And then there are the forests…

I am also with Alan Savory who asserts that wretched management of the earth really does cause localized “climate change” by desertification. Bare ground absorbs solar radiation and then puts it back into the atmosphere, whereas ground covered with vegetation retains water, evaporation of which cools the ground and the atmosphere.

Desertification through mismanagement has taken over a huge portion of the earth, and unnecessarily. Who could deny, for example, that the disappearance of the Aral Sea has had a profound effect on a large mass of land. It disappeared because the rivers that flowed into it have been diverted to irrigate desert land for cotton-growing.

But to me, the most persuasive argument against MMMGW (as opposed to “climate change” caused by mismanagement) is the fact that nobody actually experiences it.
Thanks for sharing that. What is “MMMGW”? Assuming that is “man made global warming?” I don’t understand what you mean by “nobody actually experiences it.” Any clarification would be greatly appreciated. Where can the uninformed go to find out more? Are there any books or articles you recommend?
 
I don’t usually applaud other posts just to applaud them, but this one is outstanding. I’m glad I wasn’t drinking something when I read it.:tiphat:
I am surprised. You don’t usually applaud the belittling of others’ views. I suggest you get back to your usual higher standards that has so inspired me.
 
catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=29936

November 15, 2016

The international community has a “serious ethical and moral responsibility to act without delay” in combating climate change, Pope Francis said in a message to COP22, the UN climate conference taking place in Marrakech, Morocco…

Citing the need for “the promotion of lifestyles aimed at favoring sustainable models of production and consumption,” the Pope called for a “culture of protection” of one’s neighbor as well as of creation.
What exactly is this lifestyle?

Back to the preindustrial age, hunting and gathering?

What?

Let’s start with the transportation of goods.

Heard of any solar powered planes, trucks or trains?
 
The pope travels in a manner that is appropriate to his position. When you get to be pope, you can travel like that too.
Kerry flew down to Antarctica, to confer with the penguins,
because it’s something a man in his position can do.

When the rich and famous harp on Climate Change but don’t take actions that support their concern, we are right to call them hypocrites.

However, I don’t include Pope Francis in this assessment since I believe he is not resource wasteful and his global travel is very important, his trips are not work funded ‘vacations’.
 
The pope travels in a manner that is appropriate to his position. When you get to be pope, you can travel like that too.
But it is the Pope who goes on about man made global warming.

He sets the example. He preaches compassion for the poor and he has set the example by washing the feet of refugees and speaking about their need to helped.
 
Whatever amount of changing is going on in the climate is a natural occurrence. I doubt man has anything to do with it. As stated, the climate changed in a far more extreme way when the Ice Age hit, and that still was purely natural.
 
I have asked you before for a link to this study. I ask again.

This is as persuasive as the argument that the earth is flat, because aside from a few elites who have travelled in space, no one actually experiences that either. Your mistake is in assuming it ought to be something that everyone would recognize right now.
But you do experience it! Next time you are at the seaside, watch a ship sail off into the horizon. It will disappear from the bottom up. Since the earth is round, as the ship gets farther away it is actually falling below your direct line of sight, first the bottom, then the top. Similarly, if you can get a clear unobstructed view of the horizon and watch the sunset while lying on your back, at the instant you can no longer see the sun stand up and you should be able to see a small portion of the sun again. Or, next time there is an eclipse, watch the shadow of the earth on the moon, you can see it is curved, indicating the earth is round.
 
But it is the Pope who goes on about man made global warming.

He sets the example. He preaches compassion for the poor and he has set the example by washing the feet of refugees and speaking about their need to helped.
Had he **not **washed the feet of refugees, would you now be calling him a hypocrite when he calls for their fair treatment?
 
Had he **not **washed the feet of refugees, would you now be calling him a hypocrite when he calls for their fair treatment?
No.

I have not in any way called him a hypocrite in my post.

I just said something about setting an example.

This does not translate into calling him a hypocrite.

No need to be combative.

I am not your enemy.

I am done with this thread.
 
Whatever amount of changing is going on in the climate is a natural occurrence. I doubt man has anything to do with it. As stated, the climate changed in a far more extreme way when the Ice Age hit, and that still was purely natural.
xkcd.com/1732/

Take a look at this graph to understand how extreme climate change is now. Naturally, it takes thousands of years for the average temperature to change by 1 degree C, but the temperature has risen by over 1 degree C in the last century.

The short timescale is what is meant by extreme climate change, not the overall change (though, we are on a path to reach an extreme there too.)
 
I have asked you before for a link to this study. I ask again.

This is as persuasive as the argument that the earth is flat, because aside from a few elites who have travelled in space, no one actually experiences that either. Your mistake is in assuming it ought to be something that everyone would recognize right now.
I’ll look for it again, but I didn’t find it last time.

When one lives in a part of the country where climate change of even a minor sort would have dramatic and recognizable results, and yet no sign of them appears, it causes deep skepticism. And, of course, probably few people truly believed the earth is flat because its roundness is observable in so many ways. You don’t need to go into space to tell that. All you have to do is walk a significant distance to know it. And certainly, if one approaches mountains, it’s very observable.
 
Whatever amount of changing is going on in the climate is a natural occurrence. I doubt man has anything to do with it.
Is this doubt of yours supported by measurements you have made around the world, or did you send up satellites to monitor the environment? Or, is this doubt just an armchair opinion?
As stated, the climate changed in a far more extreme way when the Ice Age hit, and that still was purely natural.
Really? How fast do you think temperatures were changing coming out of the Ice Age? See this timeline for a somewhat humorous (but scientifically accurate) look at that process. What you can see is that at its fastest (i.e. most extreme) rate of change, the temperature was changing about 0.14 deg. C per century. That was at about 10,000 BC. Although cumulative temperature change was large (about 14,000 years to “come out” of the last Ice Age with a temperature rise of just 5 deg. C), the actual rate of warming was always less than 0.14 deg. C per century - until the industrial age. There we see that since 1916 to 2016 (one century) the temperature has already risen about 1.00 deg. C. That is 7 times faster than in all the 20,000 years since the last Ice Age. That is why this latest rise in temperature is quite different from natural processes that have occurred in the past and will likely continue to occur - at its very slow natural rate. It may be hard to get an intuitive grasp of these trends, so take a look at the graphic in the timeline link above.
 
I am also with Alan Savory who asserts that wretched management of the earth really does cause localized “climate change” by desertification. Bare ground absorbs solar radiation and then puts it back into the atmosphere, whereas ground covered with vegetation retains water, evaporation of which cools the ground and the atmosphere.

Desertification through mismanagement has taken over a huge portion of the earth, and unnecessarily. Who could deny, for example, that the disappearance of the Aral Sea has had a profound effect on a large mass of land. It disappeared because the rivers that flowed into it have been diverted to irrigate desert land for cotton-growing.
I do think desertification is a problem. But it’s also not a modern one. When the Vikings brought livestock to Iceland it destroyed much of the delicate vegetation. The diversion of water is done to support human life directly and the production of goods. That makes it a difficult thing to stop.
The pope travels in a manner that is appropriate to his position. When you get to be pope, you can travel like that too.
Is it appropriate or necessary? For much of history the pope stayed in Rome and the surrounds simply because travelling great distances was difficult. He communicated via letter. Today the pope has the ability to instantly communicate via video. The same is true for political leaders. I don’t see that their physical presence in a particular place at a particular time is very necessary.
 
Is it appropriate or necessary? For much of history the pope stayed in Rome and the surrounds simply because travelling great distances was difficult. He communicated via letter. Today the pope has the ability to instantly communicate via video. The same is true for political leaders. I don’t see that their physical presence in a particular place at a particular time is very necessary.
It is important for the Pope to be able to be able to be among the faithful- to touch them.
 
It is important for the Pope to be able to be able to be among the faithful- to touch them.
That could border on superstitious. Very few of the faithful throughout history ever had a real chance of being near the pope. If so they had to go to Rome. They still can. The Faith spread across the world without the majority of Christians ever having a real chance at touching the pope.
 
I’ll look for it again, but I didn’t find it last time.

When one lives in a part of the country where climate change of even a minor sort would have dramatic and recognizable results, and yet no sign of them appears, it causes deep skepticism. And, of course, probably few people truly believed the earth is flat because its roundness is observable in so many ways. You don’t need to go into space to tell that. All you have to do is walk a significant distance to know it. And certainly, if one approaches mountains, it’s very observable.
Just for the sake of being the devil’s advocate here* (and keeping in mind that there are alternative explanations for this phenomenon than the ones put forward by the climate change people), what about the worldwide retreat of glaciers? That is observable and it is happening, correct?

*and I do acknowledge it is curious the effects of climate change are not being felt by farmers and people with an intimate knowledge of the land, such as yourself.
 
No.

I have not in any way called him a hypocrite in my post.

I just said something about setting an example.

This does not translate into calling him a hypocrite.

No need to be combative.

I am not your enemy.

I am done with this thread.
I am sorry I used the word “hypocrite”. It was an unnecessary exaggeration of what you wrote. I was probably thinking also about what others have written, and although no one came out and called the pope a hypocrite, they were critical of his lack of living by example.
 
I strongly disagree with all opinions expressed in this thread!

Truthfully, the air in New Delhi, for example, is now toxic. That would certainly be something good to address. While there is massive taxation, people control and population control in the utterly hysterical “We’re all going to die!” movement, there is an efficacious attitude of caring for that which God gives us that is good and worthwhile to engender.
 
I looked at the chart and from what you said the variation of temperature wasn’t as volatile as it is now but it was more of a steady warming or cooling as opposed to now where the warming is more extreme and quicker than before.

Can we know with certainty the temperature in 20000 BC? I’m not disputing but now just curious how they can know the year to year temperature from that time.
 
I strongly disagree with all opinions expressed in this thread!

Truthfully, the air in New Delhi, for example, is now toxic. That would certainly be something good to address. While there is massive taxation, people control and population control in the utterly hysterical “We’re all going to die!” movement, there is an efficacious attitude of caring for that which God gives us that is good and worthwhile to engender.
India is an environmental nightmare, but that isn’t necessarily the fault of global warming; it’s because there are no laws there to protect the environment or if there are, they aren’t being followed.
 
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