Pope Francis urges youth to accept migrants on visit to Poland

[pnewton]

The Catholic Church is not going to cower in fear, and the Holy Father does not buy all the fear-mongering that seems to have taken the minds of many. If we want to learn from history, the lesson is not that this is an invasion, but that fear will be flamed by lies and propaganda to demonize a people against which dictatorship can arise.

 

[Hatikvah]

If we want to learn from history, the lesson is not that this is an invasion, but that fear will be flamed by lies and propaganda to demonize a people against which dictatorship can arise.

Like when some Jews were returning to Palestine in the 18th and 19th centuries, the dictatorship being the Ottoman Empire. Yet, many may say (and perhaps rightfully so?) that the Jews are “something different” and “not such a threat.”

It is indeed a complex issue with some historical precedent.

 

[Seamus_L]

Unchecked in a few years they’ll create no go areas in Polish cities, drive up the crime rate, constantly accuse the Polish people of racism, and live off the government, and of course bring in terrorism.

 

[Hatikvah]

Unchecked in a few years they’ll create no go areas in Polish cities, drive up the crime rate, constantly accuse the Polish people of racism, and live off the government, and of course bring in terrorism.

• Germany
• France
• East London, England…

Potentially Poland and the United States (though in the US, racism accusations are limitless as it is).

 

[pnewton]

I think it important to remember the context, that of young people, who hopefully have not already become so jaded and rigid in their concept of their fellow man, as well as various races, nationalities and societies, that older people have already made up their mind about:

“a merciful heart is able to be a place of refuge for those who are without a home or have lost their home; a merciful heart is able to build a home and a family for those forced to emigrate.”

If we abandon the Golden Rule, we have become no better than those we consider enemies.

 

[Geist]

Invaders, and yes. Absolutely. It really will come down to Christians or Muslims. A binary choice.

And they have a truly explosive breeding rate lest you forget, even without welfare.

You really should read Camp of the Saints; this has been warned about since the 1970’s.

 

[Geist]

Perhaps you’d like to send this suggestion to Pope Francis and see how he comments?

If he doesn’t want his head kicked about St Peters Square before the Vatican is converted into a mosque he’d support it.

Interestingly the hysteria and hyperbole chooses to ignore the fact that the borders are now closed, that the EU has made an agreement with Turkey to house the refugees who are stranded in Greece Serbia and Macedonia. I believe Pope Francis was referring to the EU plan to redistribute a number of refugees who had arrived last year to take the pressure off Greece and Italy and Hungary. Poland was asked to take 7000.

I’ve met scorpions more trustworthy than the Turkish government. Do be mindful Turkey has been chomping at the bit to Islamize Europe for centuries.

They will let the “refugee” numbers build up ever higher then threaten to unleash them into Europe en masse for more money, or just do it anyway. Never trust a Muslim.

 

[Darryl1958]

Those who are kind to cruel end up by being cruel to the kind.

Is that what Christianity is truly about now?

I would hope not.

What kind of shepherd is it that lets the wolves into the pen, all in the name of love and mercy?

The Old Testament talks about some very bad shepherds too. They exist too., in reality.

 

[Darryl1958]

• Germany
• France
• East London, England…

Potentially Poland and the United States (though in the US, racism accusations are limitless as it is).

Racism claims and counter-claims abound in Amrica to be sure. Such is the effects of Identity politics.
There is a difference between North America and Europe nevertheless. America, as a nation of immigrants from the very beginning, has become more adept at integrating immigrants into the larger society, especially through the workplace.
And for their part, immigrants are more likely to see themselves as Americans from the very first day, rather than a separate people occupying in the same geography.
Europeans are from established communities thousands of years old Immigrants there tend not to see themselves as French or German or Italian, and the ancient European communities do not regard newcomers as part of their group.

The biggest source of information for the FBI on troublemakers is from the immigrant communities therefore, because when immigrants see themselves as American, they are very unwilling to provide shelter to the enemies of America among them.

The same situation does not exist in Europe. It is not really racism. It is multiculturalism, separate but equal.

Of course the American left is falling for the European model, so what is true today and yesterday may well not be true tomorrow, as Identity politics continue to schism and fracture the American population too.

 

[ShrodingersCat]

I do not agree with your line of reasoning. The IRA was a response to the injustices that were committed in Ireland and Northern Ireland. There was a time when there was a valid reason for the IRA. In the 70’s and 80’s you are correct that the terrorism of the IRA was immoral and wrong. The Muslim communities of Europe have an opportunity at a better life in Europe than they would have in North Africa or the Middle East. To compare the situation in Northern Ireland and the current environment in Europe with the Muslim communities is completely false. Your comparison also dismisses the reality that it was England’s activities in Ireland, not to mention it’s efforts to destroy the Catholic Church, that created the IRA. In comparison the Europeans are not antagonizing the Muslim communities of Europe. It is the Muslim communities of Europe that want to impose their way of life on the Christian Europeans.

My logic is you are tarring an entire people with a brush, because a subset of those people are terrorists. If you wouldn’t tar all Irish Catholics with the same brush, don’t do it to the 99% of Muslims who are good people and want to live in peace.

 

[ShrodingersCat]

Like when some Jews were returning to Palestine in the 18th and 19th centuries, the dictatorship being the Ottoman Empire. Yet, many may say (and perhaps rightfully so?) that the Jews are “something different” and “not such a threat.”

It is indeed a complex issue with some historical precedent.

So much of what I hear people say about Muslims really reminds me of the treatment of the Jews. Of course, people will not accept that the situations are comparable. But they are.

The reality is that ISIS WANTS this fear and hatred sewn in Western society. ISIS is a small sect of Muslims. They cannot succeed long term. But, if the Muslim population at large was feared and ostracised in the West due to the fear they generate, then many more Muslims who would otherwise be peaceful will be tempted to rise up to defend themselves.

I, for one, refuse to be afraid and thus give into what ISIS want.

Full cultural integration and acceptance of Muslims that are currently in Europe is the best way to prevent this. It is also the Christian response.

Also, the fact that most of them are young males is largely because young males are the ones most capable and willing to make a dangerous journey to the EU. If they have families, they go ahead to try and find a better life for them. If they don’t, what’s holding them back in Syria? Making that journey is exponentially more difficult for children and old people.

 

[ShrodingersCat]

Pope urges Catholics to act Catholic.

This.

 

[ShrodingersCat]

America is not responsible for Islamism.
Mohammed is. Fanaticism and resentments and tribalism all play the role.
But America is not responsible, and neither is Europe. The Syrians are responsible for their own country.

Recognizing that fact would be a good start. Proper vetting would be a second.
And giving the countries already overwhelmed by refugees some resources from the outside would be the third. Heck, even recognizing that a preponderance of the asylum seekers were young single men might have been put to good use for Europe to use as the boots on the ground against ISIS and/or Assad. Give them a gun and a little training and send them back to win their country back from the bad guys, whosoever they may define them to be.
Why not send them back and treat only the women and children and Christians as refugees?
It is their fight, not America’s and not Europe’s.

Finally, recognizing that our good intentions are the solution to Islamism would be an important insight to have too. As much as we may empathize with people with cancer, it is never a good idea to transplant the cancer into our own bodies as if that is going to cure anything.

Lord, save us from the good.

America is responsible for the instability in Syria and many countries in the Middle East (at least in part). It is also the source of many of the weapons ISIS used, since they armed the rebels fighting Assad.

The number of refugees the USA agreed to accept from this specific crisis is pitiful. The USA should be taking hundreds of thousands based on the size of the country. Much smaller EU countries have committed to taking thousands.

Lebanon and Jordan are overflowing with refugees. Countries like Saudi Arabia are not interested in helping out and don’t need money. Sure, give Lebanon some money, but it’ll be to help the refugees that are already there, given that there are as many refugees and indigenous people in their country now. This crisis has DOUBLED their population. How many more do you think they can take if we throw some money at them?

The Muslim countries that are taking refugees are heroic. But they can’t do it all.

 

[ShrodingersCat]

We have refugee immigrants in Ireland… being broken in in centres,

Some of the comments here remind me of the comments on the news item today re our navy rescuing refugees in boats in the Med… Utterly callous,

breakingnews.ie/ireland/le-james-joyce-rescues-more-than-400-migrants-747403.html

Yes, based on the number of refugees Ireland has agreed to take, the USA should be ashamed. And Ireland is taking them not because of a treaty but because it’s right.

Much like the USA’s neighbour Canada, a country acting (at least in this instance) in a far more Christian manner.

 

[Hatikvah]

Yes, based on the number of refugees Ireland has agreed to take, the USA should be ashamed. And Ireland is taking them not because of a treaty but because it’s right.

Much like the USA’s neighbour Canada, a country acting (at least in this instance) in a far more Christian manner.

I was thinking on this last night. I developed a question that I may make a thread for (probably under Apologetics > Philosophy):

Is morality based on the individual or on the state (society)?

Plato in his Republic encouraged state morality when he said he wanted to exclude Greek myths because of their low moral tone. The revealed morality of the Hebrew Bible was given to a group of people (Israelites) that evolved into a nation (Israel) and later into a diaspora, too. Yet, much of this morality was ceremonial and legal, not ethical; the ethics were simply passed on to the groups that grew out of the Israelites.

Christ’s greatest commandment is love, and that has been reiterated over and over. However, love cannot be based on a whole society, it comes through individuals to other individuals at once.

Yes, there is a form of overarching morality (murder, for example, cannot be justified in any culture, though exceptions are sometimes allowed for, as in Sharia) for all humans, but the question will be there.

 

[jediliz]

Yes, based on the number of refugees Ireland has agreed to take, the USA should be ashamed. And Ireland is taking them not because of a treaty but because it’s right.

Much like the USA’s neighbour Canada, a country acting (at least in this instance) in a far more Christian manner.

We need to house our homeless, especially our veterans, before we take any more refugees. And we need to take just as many displaced CHRISTIAN refugees as Muslims.

 

[PRmerger]

Only if we have to. They can always go back to where they came from instead of foisting their problems onto us.

Wow.

Just wow.

 

[Seamus_L]

To illustrate how messed up things have gotten in Europe. Yesterday, a “Merkel Must Go” march and rally in Berlin drew 1350 people. Today a pro-Erdogan rally in Cologne drew according to some estimates 50.000 !

 

[estesbob]

I know for a fact the most dangerous place in all of Britain is Midsomer

 

[liturgyluver]

To illustrate how messed up things have gotten in Europe. Yesterday, a “Merkel Must Go” march and rally in Berlin drew 1350 people. Today a pro-Erdogan rally in Cologne drew according to some estimates 50.000 !

Goodness. Your concern is touching Seamus. I am surprised you didn’t hop on a plane to make the numbers up to 1351.